FZJ80 brake pad job maybe turning into overhaul

ozarkmud

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My FZJ80 has about 220k miles on it. It's been behaving very well, but obviously has a lot of neglected maintenance.

Finally getting into the brakes. Was planning just on replacing the pads. The brake fluid, though, is very old. And I'm having a heck of a time pushing the pistons into the calipers far enough to clear the new OEM pads. They seem kind of frozen.

The rotors also seemed mildly warped. Is it worth just getting new ones? I live a ways from a city, so having them turned may be a risk.

How far do I go? Should I rebuild the calipers? Or replace? It sounds like a lot of people just replace them. These are pretty grimey.

It sounds like a lot of people get their remanufactured calipers from NAPA or the like. Is that a good way to go?
I've done brake calipers before, but usually on motorcycles. Maybe exclusively.

Also, I have a fully floating rear. Any easy chance on converting from disc to drum back there? Guessing not, but figured I'd ask.

I don't know if this pin was bent in use or getting it out, but I had a heck of a time getting it out of there. I tend to think it was bent in use, but I have absolutely no idea how. Does anyone know?

brake-caliper-pins.jpg


Appreciate any advice or insight you can offer. This is looking like a bigger job than I imagined, even though it's not surprising it's probably time to do it.

Edit: I'm also thinking the soft brake lines may need to be replaced. They look spendy at Absolute Witt's End. Not sure if I can get another 10 years out of these or not.
 
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What model/year FZJ80 are you working on?

IME sounds like you need to (or should) replace it all: rotors, calipers, pads, hoses, all damaged or crusty hardware, and flush the system including the LSPV bleed screw. While everything is apart clean and inspect the Emergency brake components and grease the pivot points, metal contact areas, and the adjuster with a high temp brake parts lube (like Permatex 24215).

Factory rotors are reasonably priced, cheaper if you can get a discount.
Factory rear calipers are available but a bit spendy (~$150 with discount)
NAPA rear calipers run around $65 plus core
Factory pads (ADVICS made for Toyota) work as designed,. Some people have used EBC Green pads, Akebono are another choice. Whatever pad you use it's better not to use cheapo pads
Factory brake lines are the only way to go on a stock vehicle

There are many places to find parts, here's one on the West Coast:

 
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@ozarkmud, have you looked at the FSM Brake section? That would be the best place to start to understand your brakes. There is also a Toyota factory technicain training manual in the Resources section on brake repair. LMK if you can't find it.

As far as rebuilding vs. replacing calipers, that's entirely a function of cash on hand. FWIW, I've never seen a warped 80 rotor. I've seen lots of scored ones and many too thin, but never a warped one. When you put a dial indicator on it, how did you determine it was warped? If the braking surface isn't flat, that's not an easy job.

FWIW, you must replace warped rotors. They will not work; the limit of deformation is in the FSM. Having said that, make sure they're warped before you throw them away; if they are thick enough to turn, that's the way to go.

I can't imagine how the sliding pin was bent "in use". It sticks frequently, which is the major cause of brake problems, IME, but it's pretty well protected when installed. I have bent stuck pins removing them.

I have given up on aftermarket pads for rear brakes; none I've ever bought fit properly. And Toyota pads are cheaper. Front pads work from just about everyone, but if I'm buying rear pads from Toyota, I get the front ones too. Saves me hassle and time.

I would recommend changing your brake fluid, if you've never done it. It doesn't last forever. I wouldn't have an 80 without a Motive pressure bleeder.

Finally, why would you consider replacing disc brakes with drums? Drums suck, unless they're parking brakes. Yes, you can do it, but it'll be very expensive, and require a lot of rework and not work as well as even poor disc brakes. And you'll lose your ABS.

A lot of people replace the soft lines as preventative maintenance, I did, but if you can't see any damage, and they don't balloon when you step on the brake pedal, they're probably OK to put off for a rainy day.

Lastly, you can save money on parts that do not weigh very much, by buying from international vendors, like PartSouq or Amayama. Heavy parts, like calipers, will cost more, even with their discounts, when you factor in shipping costs, compared to going to a parts store or discount online dealer, like McGeorge Toyota. Buying from Joey at Absolute Wit's End is very convenient and you'll always get what you need, but he's done a lot of leg work for you, and his time isn't free.
 
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And I'm having a heck of a time pushing the pistons into the calipers far enough to clear the new OEM pads. They seem kind of frozen.

They're probably full of rust, then.

The rotors also seemed mildly warped.

Unless you've verified runout with a gauge, they're probably not. The vast majority of "warped" rotors just have friction material deposits on them.


Should I rebuild the calipers? Or replace?

Depends entirely on your skill level, free time, and the condition of the calipers. Exterior filth doesn't matter, it's the condition of the pistons and bores that matters. Pop out a piston and see what it looks like inside.

My fronts were in good condition. My rears had some pitting on the pistons and bores, along with rust deposits.
 
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As said above dirt/filth don't really matter and unless there's damage or massive corrosion caliper body condition doesn't matter that much either in my opinion.

If you rebuild use OE parts, not the aftermarket seal kits. Replace any piston that doesn't clean up really easily or that shows pitting/surface irregularities. Here are some part #s to help you out:

front caliper rebuild04479-60020
rear caliper rebuild04479-60030
caliper crush washer90430-10074
banjo bolt90401-10015
frnt caliper piston47731-60010
rear cal piston47731-60020
 

ozarkmud

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Wow! Thank you all for the help. You guys are great.

I've heard that bleeding from top down is by far the way to go. Which Motive bleeder were you talking about? It sounds like they come with a generic master cylinder adapter that's supposed to work on the 80 series, but there's both 3D printed DIY versions on the forum and fancy, CNC Toyota-specific adapters. Is it the Motive 101? Does the generic adapter included with the Motive actually work?

I've never bled brakes on an ABS system. I didn't think about it before, but it does sound more difficult. I'm also not married to keeping ABS. I know in dry conditions it can do really well, but in the snow or offroad it can be a hazard. I haven't actually run into it on the 80 yet, but on my 3rd gen 4Runner the ABS was at times dangerous coming to a stop in really snowy/icy conditions on a hill. I guess the ideal thing would be to toggle it on/off, but it's also a lot of plumbing and hardware to keep it all there.

It sounds like the thing to do may be to jack up the whole rig, take off all of the calipers, and take them all to NAPA as core charges. I guess I could also pop out a piston and see how it looks.

For the soft lines, if I stomp on the brakes and see them balloon, are they ready to go? They don't seem to have any damage. The rig doesn't have a ton of corrosion. Maybe I'm fine keeping them on there till the next caliper rebuild or whenever.

This rig seems babied from an offroad perspective, but I also get the feeling that stuff like brakes weren't touched in a very long time, both in years and miles.

As far as the rear drums go, I do prefer rear drums. Mostly because e-brake drum + disc is a bit of a monstrosity in my opinion. Those mini drum e-brakes don't work nearly as well. Toyota themselves has kept to rear drums in tons of vehicles and they say it's the more reliable option. I tend to agree. Also, drums bite better at a standstill. Shifting into 4low, this rig really wants to crawl (when the engine is cold and higher revs) with my foot down pretty well on the brake. Drums seem to have better behavior when stopped than discs.

I love discs up front. I just think drums in the rear is more sensible all around. But I am fine keeping it as-is if there's no simple full-floater drum option. I heard that Australian rigs had those, but I bet getting one is not simple.

Edit: I assumed the discs were warped from the slight pulsing I felt under braking, but maybe it's just pad build up. I did recently run into actually warped rotors on another vehicle (not a Toyota) that I had to replace. I guess I should at least measure the caliper thickness.
 
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As I said, first stop is the FSM. It, along with all the technical resources you will ever need, is in the Resources section. For free.

There is no special trick to bleeding the 80s brakes, unless it's to make sure you're moving the LSBPV piston as you're bleeding it. If you don't you won't get the air out of it. Follow the procedure in the FSM and you'll be fine.

As to your soft lines, yes, if they bulge they are unserviceable. If they are cracked or torn, they are unserviceable. If they look good, they probably will serve until you get around to them. If you have any doubts, have a competent person inspect them for you. There are a few things you really can't see in photos, and in my opinion, this is one of them.

If you're really married to having rear drum brakes, go for it. You'll be the first person in the world to do it.

Yes, you are correct, drum brakes are better at holding a wheel than discs; that's why the parking brake is a drum (it's also why all very large machines use them for critical safety braking - except cranes, that's a horse of a different color). They are absolutely not better at stopping a wheel. That's not my opinion, it's a fact. And that's why every decent braking system in the world uses them. That fact that there are still drum brakes on cars and trucks in the world does not mean they are better than disc brakes, or even any good. Many factors are components of automotive design decision making. Money is chief among all of them.

Here's the system Motive recommends for Land Cruisers (I have this one):
1668460559219.png


The master cylinder adapter works fine. It's fiddly, but it works. A better option, and it's only an option, is the BA-10 adapter:
1668460649954.png


I used the Motive adapter for years before I bought the BA-10. I have several Land Cruisers and it makes sense for me to have better tools than I need. YMMV.
 
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ozarkmud

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Thank you! That is very helpful. I've gone ahead and ordered those. For flushing + filling a dirty system, how much brake fluid am I likely to need?

Edit: I do have the FSM downloaded and have referred to it. Now I'm wondering if it'll answer my fluid question...
 
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ozarkmud

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I'm looking into caliper rebuild vs new calipers. It seems like it's best to get rebuilt ones, especially time wise, and maybe hold onto the old ones and rebuild them at my own pace.

NAPA sells "Adaptive One" and Nugeon calipers. Their Adaptive Ones are $194 front pair and $132 rear pair, after core charges. That's $326.

Witts' End sells the rebuild kits for $272 all-together. Assuming the Adaptive Ones are the same quality, it seems like a no-brainer to go with those.

Ebay has a set as well:


$325 and no core charges, so I can keep my cores!

And then there's Rock Auto: 1993 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER 4.5L L6 Caliper | RockAuto - https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/toyota,1993,land+cruiser,4.5l+l6,1276668,brake+&+wheel+hub,caliper,1704

I realize brake calipers are critical, but if they are OEM rebuilds with good kits, I wonder if the cheapest one is the one to go with. I am normally pretty leary of Chinesium parts, though. And the Rock Auto prices seem a bit suspiciously low.

Might need to order an extra set of jack stands as bleeding will be a lot easier with the wheels off.
 
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I rebuilt my front calipers with the Carlson kit and pins from RockAuto, back in 2017, all for $20. No problems to report. The Toyota overhaul kit (04479-60020) is $42.20 from McGeorge and includes seals to rebuild both calipers.

I wouldn't bother keeping your cores. What are the odds that you're actually going to go through the process of disassembling and rebuilding your current calipers if you have perfectly functional rebuilds installed? And if they're pitted, you're not going to replicate a factory rebuild, where they machine and sleeve the bores. You'll definitely need to replace the pistons if they're pitted.
 
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Buy a gallon of brake fluid.
 
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My FZJ80 has about 220k miles on it. It's been behaving very well, but obviously has a lot of neglected maintenance.

Finally getting into the brakes. Was planning just on replacing the pads. The brake fluid, though, is very old. And I'm having a heck of a time pushing the pistons into the calipers far enough to clear the new OEM pads. They seem kind of frozen.

The rotors also seemed mildly warped. Is it worth just getting new ones? I live a ways from a city, so having them turned may be a risk.

How far do I go? Should I rebuild the calipers? Or replace? It sounds like a lot of people just replace them. These are pretty grimey.

It sounds like a lot of people get their remanufactured calipers from NAPA or the like. Is that a good way to go?
I've done brake calipers before, but usually on motorcycles. Maybe exclusively.

Also, I have a fully floating rear. Any easy chance on converting from disc to drum back there? Guessing not, but figured I'd ask.

I don't know if this pin was bent in use or getting it out, but I had a heck of a time getting it out of there. I tend to think it was bent in use, but I have absolutely no idea how. Does anyone know?

View attachment 3167445

Appreciate any advice or insight you can offer. This is looking like a bigger job than I imagined, even though it's not surprising it's probably time to do it.

Edit: I'm also thinking the soft brake lines may need to be replaced. They look spendy at Absolute Witt's End. Not sure if I can get another 10 years out of these or not.
If you're looking for pads and rotors i got mine front and rear from R1 Concepts i got slotted rotors and their heavy duty pads all together was around $300 shipped and they usually have a sale going on.
 
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Read through this before going with NAPA.
 

jfz80

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I’ve done the rebuild and the replace now.
If me I would buy Toyota reman units. You get new fresh bleeders this way as well. (Or new if you want to splurge…. They’ve lasted 25 yrs after all) Pads of your choice. Have had good luck with Toyota and EBC green. And always inspect before leaving the counter. Had a bad unit “new” in the box (pinched oring at piston) and they brought another in for me.

Several online dealers have discounts. I ended up going to local dealership and asking for club or tlca discount and wasn’t dissapointed. Let me bring my cores back a day or two later as well.

For me and a few locals it’s common to get gunk and rust buildup in the pass rear bleeder that prevents the motive pressure bleeder from working so may want a second set of feet to do the old fashioned pedal push…. At least to start.

Part # and $ for 95-97
FD23AE18-A776-48C2-BB43-F70F71CA6992.jpeg
 

ozarkmud

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Hey everyone!

Been busy here but finally starting to bleed the brakes. Or the lines, rather. I got the brakes off and they were probably salvagable but not something I really have time for right now. I checked out the Napa Adaptive One and was not impressed, so I bit the bullet and went with the Toyota remans. Still need to head to the dealer to pick them up.

I started to bleed the lines with the Motive bleeder. The fancy CNCed custom Toyota cap has a quick connect fitting and my Motive kit did not come with an adapter. It has some SAE thread, I guess half inch, for airlines. One airline connector seemed to fit, but wouldn't seal. What's the correct way to mesh the two? I can't find a quick connect adapter on Motive's site. I also should've gotten a bleeder bottle.

I have all four dripping out slowly at once into various bottles. I didn't really want to run totally gunky fluid into the new calipers and risk little parts getting stuck, but maybe that's just me being paranoid. I'll definitely still have to do a normal bleed.

Edit: Is this the part? 0400A - Quick Release Adapter Kit for 2 QT tanks - https://www.motiveproducts.com/products/0405-quick-release-adapter-kit
 

ozarkmud

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Getting everything back together, I'm in a pickle.

I ordered a rebuild kit as well, but it didn't ship as I guess they found out it was out of stock. I thought I had it here, but I should've paid more attention.

We were hoping to get the 80 ready for Saturday as we need an extra seat. I don't have the pins for one of the front calipers, and the others are rough. I ended up just giving the one of the whole brakes as a core (including pads, pins, etc), figuring I had the kits to replace the pieces. All I have is Toyota remans + pads. I figure there's a lot of non-essential parts that might be nice to have (the backing plates for anti rattle, etc), but I at least just need to get it together. I don't know how I can get the pins in time or if it's something I can replace easily, or if I might be missing something else. I also don't have the spring clips. I figure I may be able to improvise something there.

I have a '98 4Runner that's been crashed and I've been trying to sell. I could also tap into it for parts. Although it sounds like those pins are different and I'm not sure if the calipers would fit. We also have a Sequoia that we've been trying to sell, that I have to change the lower balljoints on. If I put empty brake calipers on the Land Cruiser and the wheels/tires, I could wheel it out, do the lower balljoints, and drive it as it has extra seating.

Just not sure what to do and would appreciate advice.
 
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Share pictures of the pins here. My guess is that you can hit them with a wire wheel to clean them up and then lightly grease them and roll with them ones for now. You can likely roll without/improvise the rest if I'm following correctly but I'd get it all on order and install it as soon as the parts come in, which will be easy.

Most of the work is mounting the calipers and bleeding the brakes. Get that done, clean/grease the pins you have, install the pads and see where you are as soon as you can. The brakes may work fine at that point or you may encounter other obstacles which force you to change plans as you've mentioned.

Trying to reach out to folks on the forum in your area could yield the parts you need also and I'd spend some time trying to do that also.

Hold on to all the small parts/pieces you can moving forward, and some of the big ones as well. Organize and store them as spares somewhere.
 

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