Builds Fujiwara's 3 linked super daily (1 Viewer)

[Squeegee]

I think it was fall of 22 at this point and I was really determined to 3 link this thing.

A heads up, stuffs ganna get really informational from here on out. I really like comparing numbers and options. Hopefully this helps someone not make the mistakes that I did on this project. I'm not a genius so I made alot of mistakes.

I was super tired of replacing radius arm bushing. Even with an 11" travel shock in the front it would push the sleeve out of the middle of bushing the first time I flexed it out on anything. I did buy the cheapest bushing I could get.... but this is the fate of radius arms no matter what and the price of oem bushings is stupid lets all be honest with ourselves.

35s were awesome for hitting trails 6s and down, but were genuinly to small for alot of obstacles 7 and up.

A 2" lift is fantastic for daily driving the 80 and the eimkieth rams made is drive like a mostly stock 80. But belly height is important and sitting around 18" to the bottom of the center of the frame meant that I absolutely crushed the sliders and rear control arm mounts. They were in very bad shape after the first moab trip. So in order to make the car live longer, it had to get well... bigger.

Anyway, I started making a parts list and setting up a budget. I'm pretty cheap so it started out very low.
Option 1:

- right hand drive steering arm
- a one ton y link for the steering
- do the itty bitty panhard
- barnes or ruff stuff brackets
- metalcloak joints
- hydro assist from whoever

This is the super basic set up that most people go with, but its loaded with compramises and there's lots of options for making it better.

The steering is the main issue. I know that people make it work, but after talking to some friends who have kind of "been there, done that" they told not to skimp out on the stuff that can get you killed if they fail. Ok.. point made. After lots of research, I also found that there is a notorious dead spot with the chevy y links and yes ruff stuff make "the cure" but its probably stupid. Offroad design converts everything to crossover steering for a reason I guess.


Option 2:
- Right hand drive steering arm
-slee double sheer high steer arms
-heims (stupid), EMF or TMR rod ends
-do the itty bitty panhard
- barnes or ruff stuff brackets
- metalcloak joints
- hydro assist from whoever

I moved onto something that was more budget friend AND crossover steering. The slee double sheer arms were the obvious choice. Double sheer is a great way to get a lot of strength out of... everything? But living in Montana means that we have crazy winters and heims are not a realistic options for something that I drive 10K -15K miles a year. So that means EMF rod ends or TMR lifetime rod ends are the only options. I looked into using johnny joints for steering and I couldn't find anything, probably for a good reason. After pricing this option out, the cost of the arms, DOM, weld in bungs, and the EMFs, I was within $150 of the hellfires or front range knuckles. And the TMRs as the joints made it more expensive.... so onto option 3.


Option 3:

- Big bearing Hellfire or front range knuckles
-keep the Marlin Crawler HD steering that I already have
-do the itty bitty panhard
- barnes or ruff stuff brackets
- metalcloak joints
- hydro assist from whoever

Option 3 is what I ended up deciding, knowing what I know now, I would change some things and I have/ am going to buuuuut, its a good starting point. So lets start with the parts list.

 

[Squeegee]

I waited for black friday to start buying all of my parts, you really can build cool stuff for cheapish if you shop around.

Starting off with the 37s, I got 5 37x13.5x17 ridge grapplers for $2,100? I ordered them on the way to Salt lake for thanks giving. I finished the order and my friend who was driving was going 160. I didn't even notice, until he started hammering on the brakes.... I was very concerned about buying the right tire.

The wheels were used 17x9 -38 SCS f5s, the spare was cracked, and they were BEAT. But they were a friend of a friends and for $500 who could say no. Hit them with an angle grinder, fresh paint and you're good to go.

New wheels and some chunkyish tires really make it feel like an actual offroader. I was stoked

 

[NorCalFJ100]

Great writeup so far!! Thanks for sharing the backstory!

 

[Squeegee]

I should probably mention how to make these fit. I dont love using bump stops to keep the tire out of the body. It feels like cheating and I really really try to make every "upgrade" an overall improvement. So in order to keep the uptravel as good as possible, stuffs getting trimmed.

@1jzhilux told me how much to cut out of the front and I followed suit. This pretty much meant that everything had to go. I know that this makes the front end less rigid and can lead to cracking, but at the time I really wasn't sure if I was going to move up to 40s so I didn't want to weld in a new fender liner, just to cut it out again..... I know I'll probably never run 40s and I still havent done it but I digress.

fender liners go bye bye, the quarter panel gets trimmed a little, and the lip on the flare gets flattened out. Bam, 4.5" of uptravel ( or something) with a 2" ride height

 

[Squeegee]

Great writeup so far!! Thanks for sharing the backstory!

Thanks for taking the time to listen to me ramble about stuff!

 

[1jzhilux]

This build sux

 

[Squeegee]

This build sux

Get out of here you butthole

 

[baldilocks]

Thanks for that. You’ve enjoyed an exciting journey so far.

 

[Squeegee]

Thanks for that. You’ve enjoyed an an exciting journey so far.

Hi Steve!

 

[Squeegee]

Onto the knuckle stuff

I ended up getting the 25mm bearing version of the front range knuckles. Overall... I'm not stoked on them, they're fine... but just kind of fine.

The machine work was not as nice as I would have liked for how much you have to pay for them. The arms were a pretty rough cut, and the end of one of my arms was cut short and a 1" section of the end was missed on the last pass of the mill. It's obviously not a structeral thing but for something you have to spend over $1000 for, some better QC of the finer details would be nice. Front range also refused to move the taper for the tie rod/ drag link to the bottom of the steering arm. Not a deal breaker, the end user can modify them how they like, but kind of annoying.

****** I also called ruff stuff and they also refused to do it for their helfire knuckles. I later learned that Blackhillsbuilds got his hellfires with the taper on the bottom so, if you ask super nice Ruff stuff WILL do it.*****

I have 3 major major gripes with Front Range.

1. The customer service is terrible. The only way I could get in contact with them was through messaging them on instagram. They would not answer or return any of my calls.

2. If you are going to run these on an 80 with coil springs in the stock location AND not limit you're steering, you're going to have to grind of a section of the arm so that your coils don't hit during articulation. These knuckles were made for an 80 series high pinion axle that is swapped into something with coilovers or leaf springs. They are NOT made to fit on an unmodified 80.... so dumb

In their defense, they do say "These do require changes to stock suspension/steering to be installed" but some specifics would be nice. I assumed they just meant the panhard

I'm sure I would've had to grind down the hellfire knuckle too but at least I could have called Ruff stuff and had someone answer the phone tell me that it's normal

3. A they machined the hole for the studs so tight that a normal wall short well socket doesn't fit. A deep well fits for some reason but why would they make the tolerance on it that tight.... so weird

At the end of the day, I kinda wish I went with the hellfire knuckles. I found a 10% coupon code for ruff stuff and they ran a deal on them for black Friday. Yes the keyed arms on the front rangres are cool but at the end of the day, if you sheer the studs on the hellflire knuckle, you're probably doing something that totaled your car.

 

[Squeegee]

In my opinion, if you get knuckles, you might as well get the 25mm trunion bearings. They come standard in hellfire knuckles and are optional in front range knuckles. Its been a long time since I looked them up, but the stock 80 bearings have a load rating of 6-7K (Whether its dynamic or static, I really really cant remember). But here's some fun comparisons between pickup axle trunions (The stock nsk bearings in the picture), 80 trunions, and the 25mm trunions.

 

[Squeegee]

So how did I make these knuckles work in a car they weren't really meant for?

It started with getting the tie rod location on the right side of the knuckle. At the time I was committed to making tie rod ends work. I live in montana where mag chloride and lots and lots of sand is put on the roads every winter so heims aren't a great option. So I called up @arcworx and asked him to tig in some inserts with an 80 taper. Side note, these sucked to find. Marlin and north west fab used to make them but cut production a while ago. I had to call a company in canada who bought up all of Marlins stock. They had 3 left and I bought two of them. As a heads up, this is a horribly annoying way to package steering and it fought me almost all of the way. I hadn't seen an 80 with it before I did it.... thats because its stupid and annoying.


For anyone who wants crossover steering with tie rod ends, you'll abaolutely want the tie rod on the bottom of the knuckle. The tie rod over the knuckle runs dangerously close to the nut on the steering box. With a 2" lift I had like 2-3" of uptravel until they collided, moving the tie rod to the bottom affords you a couple more inches of uptravel. I didn't take a picture of it because I'm stupid.

I would normally recommend moving up to one ton tie rod ends but turns out they don't fit side by side on front range OR hellfire knuckles.

Side note: the sharply mark picture shows how much I had to grind out of the knuckle so that the springs would clear. Front Range could’ve easily machined that out. The arms are super thick and removing that material shouldn’t impact the integrity of the arm. So dumb

And the end product looks kinda sick
We'll get into panhards another day. That ones ganna take a while

 

[SKULLGRINDER]

rig is pretty bad to the bone dude! Do you have any more spec of the "stock radius arm" set up you were running? Seems like you had quite a few little tricks and upgrades throw at it to make it work so well. Stock 1FZ?

 

[Squeegee]

rig is pretty bad to the bone dude! Do you have any more spec of the "stock radius arm" set up you were running? Seems like you had quite a few little tricks and upgrades throw at it to make it work so well. Stock 1FZ?

It was a combo of the eimkieth RAMs, super long springs with a light rate, no sway bar, and blown out bushings that made it wheel well

I later lowered the frame side mounts for the shocks about 2” to get more down travel too.

And yeah, stock 1fz. I took off the supercharger to fund a good chunk of the 3 link. I really don’t miss it

 

[SKULLGRINDER]

It was a combo of the eimkieth RAMs, super long springs with a light rate, no sway bar, and blown out bushings that made it wheel well

I later lowered the frame side mounts for the shocks about 2” to get more down travel too.

And yeah, stock 1fz. I took off the supercharger to fund a good chunk of the 3 link. I really don’t miss it

beef'd steering too? about to dabble in some 1.5' .250 for tie rods and while I'm at it just discovered those RAM and for sure going to be adding those while its all apart under there. Lucky me I think I got the wallowed out OEM bushing covered

 

[SKULLGRINDER]

beef'd steering too? about to dabble in some 1.5' .250 for tie rods and while I'm at it just discovered those RAM and for sure going to be adding those while its all apart under there. Lucky me I think I got the wallowed out OEM bushing covered

bummer, not even sure who makes a slinky spring anymore.... was thinking about trying to fit some feather weight jeep springs in there

 

[Squeegee]

bummer, not even sure who makes a slinky spring anymore.... was thinking about trying to fit some feather weight jeep springs in there

My long trail tailor springs are for sale! DM me if you’re interested

 

[Squeegee]

beef'd steering too? about to dabble in some 1.5' .250 for tie rods and while I'm at it just discovered those RAM and for sure going to be adding those while its all apart under there. Lucky me I think I got the wallowed out OEM bushing covered

My tie rod is 1.5” .250 wall tube and my drag link is whatever marlin crawler sells!

 

[SKULLGRINDER]

My tie rod is 1.5” .250 wall tube and my drag link is whatever marlin crawler sells!

My long trail tailor springs are for sale! DM me if you’re interested

Sent

 

[Squeegee]

Panhard time!!
This is going to be alot, if you have questions, remember that I'm not an engineer and I'm totally not always right. But I've done the panhard twice at this point, so I have a little insight on how to do it right and how to screw it up.

When I initially started researching how to set up a panhard I really couldn't find any solid evidence of how to do it. It's not like there's a 3 link calculator that will tell you if you're going to get bump steer or not that you can rip off the internet

I found that most of the info on how to set up a drag link and panhard is more or less based off 4 rules of thumb

1. Make the panhard as close to the length the drag link as you can.
2. Make them as flat as you can
3. Make is so that the panhard and the drag link are parrallel to each other
4. Make the distance from the axle side mount for the panhard AND the mount on the steering arm the same distance from the frame side mount for the panhard and the tie rod hole on the pitman arm.

****This ones weird, so if the distance from the axle mount of the panhard and the steering arm on the axle is 3".... you want the distance from the frame side mount of the panhard to tie rod on the pitman arm to be 3"****

This issue is that rules are thumb are... you know... just rules of thumb. They're general guidelines that get you close, they're not laws of physics soooo they're not always right. I'm sure that if you follow all of the rules, youll have a great panhard/ drag link set up. The issue is that in the real world, packaging will inevitably always limit your options and you'll in all likelihood only be able to follow one or two of the rules of thumb. But lets start with the basics on this stuff....

How this stuff works

Well let's start breaking down the individual parts that we're working with, what they do, and how you get bump steer. As you know, your panhard controls the lateral movement of your axle, cool got it. The drag link goes from the pitman arm on your steering box to the steering arm on your axle. This steers the car. Cool? Got it. Both of these bars travel in an arc, these arcs travel on the x axis (left and right when you're looking at the front of the car) and the z axis ( up and down like floor to ceiling). In order to mitigate bump steer, you need to make the arc of the panhard and the arc of the drag link match.

Let's put this in a real world scenario ( for the first example the numbers are nice and round so its easy to understand).... so you hit a little dip in the road. When your tire reaches the bottom of this little dip, the axle end of the panhard goes down 1 inch (z) and towards the drivers side 1 inch (x) (remember that its an arc)..... the axle end of the drag link also goes down 1 inch (z) and towards the drivers side 1 inch (x). The pandhard and the drag link are following the same arc, so you won't feel any bump steer, super cool.

So how do you screw this up

Lets say that you drive off of a 5" tall curb. The axle end of your panhard goes down 5" and 1/2" towards the drivers side. At the same time the axle end of your drag link goes down 5" BUT travel 1" towards the drivers side. This is a 1/2" discrepancy on the x axis over 5" of down travel (z) between the panhard and the drag link. In my experience, this WILL RESULT IN BUMP STEER.

Comparing the results from solid works to real life

You're probably wondering how I know this. Well when I could't find any guaranteed way to set up a drag link/ panhard, I called up @arcworxs. I gave my general layout of where everything would land and he put those numbers in solid works.. did some engineer magic.... and found that over 5" of down travel I would have a .2" discrepancy on the x axis between the panhard and the drag link. He told me that I wouldn't feel it... so I built it... and then immediately drove it on a 1300 mile wheeling trip. I drove it on the hightway, wheeled it, and even hit some whoops. No bump steer HE WAS RIGHT.

How do I know that a .5" discrepancy over 5" will result in bump steer? When I put the car on coilovers, I redid the panhard and made it much longer. I had another engineer friend run my numbers through solid works, he told me it was a .1" discrepancy over 5".... so I built it. He called me about 4 hours later and told me that he looked at the numbers again and it would be about a .4" discrepancy on the x axis of 5" of down travel..... (Totally not his fault, I was bothering him at work. I take full responsibility). Ok, so this is the current set up for the 80 and it has bump steer, not alot, but it can be felt over expansion joints big bumps in the road... stuff like that. Its not alot but its the perfect amount to be annoying. I have a theory that you wouldn't feel it at all with hydro assist but whatever. But I can't leave it alone and I will be redoing my panhard and steering for the 3rd time. I'll go into detail with that more when we get into that phase or whatever of the build.