Fuel tank woes

[sandcrawler]

Must be the time of year for fuel tank/pump woes. Elsewhere I saw someone with trouble once they replaced their fuel pump.... I wish i was to that point:

I'm having a hell of a time getting the tank out of the vehicle - after getting the spare tire off (which was a trial in and off itself) and removing the spare tire cross member, i finally got to the point of disconnecting all the hoses when the main fuel hose form the pump breaks off!

It looks like the metal had rusted to the point of being too brittle, and when I tried to unscrew the hard line from the soft line connector the hard line twisted and then broke off. More on this in a moment.

So after getting the tank loose, I can't seem to wriggle it free from the between the frame rails - what am I missing? It looks like I need to remove the rear sway bar bolts - is that correct? (Of course this seems to be causing it's own issues since it too is frozen in place (even though the links are on the newer side).

So I have two questions:

First do i NEED to remove the sway bar bolts? Or can the tank be finagled out with out doing that?

Second, what should I do about the busted hard line from the fuel pump itself? Is it easy enough to fabricate something there? Or will I need to buy a new injector (or whatever its called)?

This has turned into a much more frustrating job than I was ever intending - what am i doing wrong?

 

[archie]

I had a rust/leak on my 62 on the lines on the base of the fuel pump bracket .(midwest rustbelt). Be glad that yours broke before you put it back together. I tried to fabricate something because I had my 80 to drive around and found out that there is not too much space to squeeze a prefab line. The fuel pump bracket new price from CDan is about 60 bucks ( cheaper than your local dealer) and don't forget to get a new gasket also. I removed the sway bar brackets bases from the frame because it looked easier and from putting it back up, I am glad I did . Have somebody help you raise the tank back up. I cut a hole on the bottom of my floor to access my fuel pump using the frame rails as a guide. I put the fuel pump and bracket in after I raised the tank up (floor cut out).

 

[Randy88FJ62]

You want to remove the sway bar brackets. It makes it way easier to get out. When putting the tank back in when you're all done, use a bottle jack to hold it up and in place while you get the straps bolted in. If you're near L.A. pm me and I can help you. I just got mine back in this week.

 

[sandcrawler]

So is your advice to simply get a new bracket? That kinda seems to be the way to go, but I was hoping not to go down that path.

Also, have you have trouble getting the 62 inspected with the whole cut in the floor? Or don't they bother to check it?

Mines pretty rusty back there so i'm not sure I can easily get the sway bar brackets off... But I'll look at that tomorrow.

Fortunately mines not a DD (Except in winter) so I'm in good shape for the time being...

 

[sandcrawler]

Randy, thanks for the offer, but I'm over in Pittsburgh so that's a bit far....

Yeah, I hadn't thought about removing the brackets all together - I assume you put them back on after the job...

 

[Randy88FJ62]

The sway bar brackets are 2 bolts each. Go easy on them, the bolts are riveted or welded in there. I bent on and it broke off so I might have some welding to do to get another bolt on there. Make sure to PBB blast it and soack it good then try to torque it evenly and straight. It's a hard angle and led me to torque it off center causing the bending / breaking of the bolt.
Good Luck.

 

[archie]

My sway brackets were bolted on and were more easily removed with liberal doses of PB blaster over a period of several days. I don't have inspection in my area so a hole doesn't affect me, I still have a hole and not sealed the panel back up. If you do it yourself (put up the tank) remember that you will have to insert the filler neck onto the tank while the tank is shifting/pivoting around the bottle jack (better use two jacks or have somebody help because it helps to have somebody see how much clearance you have on the other side. Go with the factory fuel pump bracket, it's pricey but hopefully you won't do it again for a long time. If you don't cut a hole in the floorboard don't bend up the bracket hosing while pushing up on the tank into position. If you do go with a bottle jack or any other jack be sure you don't crush your tank. It's hard to see if you are binding anywhere and know how much pressure you are applying in any area.Once it gets deformed you might have to get a new tank and things will get caught/snag at different areas of the tank. Don't forget the rubber gasket that insulates the two suspension straps from the tank. I used a jack with a short length of pipe to hold those straps up while I carefully threaded the bolts up. Wear googles because junk is gonna rain into your eyes and you don't want to try to clear irritants from your eyes while holding up a tank trying to thread that bolt into the strap. Put a little oil on the inner portion of the filler neck to facilitate easier insert into the tank while raising into position. Too bad you aren't in Chicago because I could've helped you.

 

[archie]

Here's a link from somebody who pre-fab a line. https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/32431-fj62-fuel-pump.html . If I were to pre-fab, I would go with flexible lines from the top of the tank to the connection to the hard lines. There is very little room for hardlines that aren't factory made to specs.

 

[archie]

Other suggestions
spend time cleaning threads of the bolts of rust and dirt. Dremel clean, with wire brush, the interior of the bolt receptacle. With all the rust on things, it's hard to figure out if the resistance on placing the bolts is crossthreading/stripping the bolts.
Put a little oil on the threads.
Use a plumbing wrench(es) when removing or replacing the connectors from the fuel pump harness going to the front lines if you have a hard time getting them off. My connectors were rounded over from rust and I couldn't use a regular wrench.
Don't try to raise the tank by yourself because it is more frustrating than it's worth. Lay on your backs and use your shins to hold up the tank. I got a 3 inch lift so your situation might be different. Remember that raising the tank is easy, but slotting it back into the area with the straps hitting the ground (truck not on a lift) while inserting the rubber gas filler tube makes things harder.

 

[sandcrawler]

Thanks for the advice guys, it looks like I'll go with the factory bracket, which I'll order from Cruiser Dan or my local 'Yota dealer. Since this job has become a little more involved than I was hoping, I'll take some time and clean stuff up better than I was planning.

I'll probably enlist the help from some local Mudders here in the Burg to help me put the tank back up. I'll hit the sway-bar bracket bolts with PB blaster over the next couple days while I wait for the bracket.

I'm not going to cut a hole in the floor, since that seems to be more trouble than it's worth.

 

[archie]

cutting a hole in the floor is not that hard. Just drill four big holes on the corners of the square based on the underframe of supporting floorboard. Cut the metal with a reciprocating saw between the holes. Patching is a different story.
I cut the floor because I didn't change the pump, just the bracket. I wanted to have easy access to the pump when it fails in the future. This is also helpful when you put things back together and find out that things still doesn't work. You wouldn't want to raise/fill the tank and find out that the wires were disconnected in the install and have to disconnect it again.
The wires to my fuel gauge were all corroded and falling apart but I just soldered them back on an threw some silicone on top for corrosion protection. Double check them before raising up the tank or ordering from CDan.
BTW, CDan doesn't charge for shipping on orders over 100 bucks, just in case you want to save some more money on parts you will eventually have to buy.

 

[sandcrawler]

Well not only did i seem to fall into the "man it was tough getting my tank out" I'm not in the "man, it's difficult to get the beast restarted!"

So once I got the tank out, which, once I got sway bar brackets out, the tank came out easily. I replaced the fuel pump bracket, the fuel pump, got everything back in (man that's fun doing it by yourself!) and buttoned everything up. So now, with gas, it cranks, but does not fire. I'm going to check the cold start injector to make sure I have gas (i really don't want to go through removing the tank again!).

Assuming I have fuel, what else would cause the beast not to start?

I'll update once I get some more information.

I feel so so close!

 

[sandcrawler]

OK, so i checked the cold start injector, and cranking the motor over, no fuel.

So this begs the question, what do i check now? I guess I can look at the fusable link; the FPR and the fuel filter are new with in the last two years.

Any other suggestions?

 

[grant5127]

You can grasp the wires feeding the pump @ the sender access opening and check for voltage... pink/black stripe IIRC and ground check white?black stripe.....

 

[archie]

now you know why I cut a hole in the floorboard. Hopefully it's the connectors and/or the wires oustside the tank. Don't forget to check grounding . If it's the wires in the fuel pump assembly itself you have no other recourse than to remove the tank.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

OK, so i checked the cold start injector, and cranking the motor over, no fuel.

So this begs the question, what do i check now? I guess I can look at the fusable link; the FPR and the fuel filter are new with in the last two years.

Any other suggestions?

Have you checked the fuel pump by shorting the +B and Fp ports in the diagnostics board? It's located passenger side near firewall. Check your FSM for full details.

 

[NJTaco]

picture request...


Can somone post a pic of the hole they cut in the flooor to access the pump on a 62? Or direct me to a thread with such a pic? Can this be done without removing the tank at all?

Thanks!

Back on topic, x2 what Randy said...+b and fp until you get fuel coming out the return line or cold start line.

 

[cruiser88]

I did not read it all....but did you check that pesky wire in the rear drivers quarter??that will not allow the fuel pump to work....most of the time that is what is wrong.

 

[Randy88FJ62]

I did not read it all....but did you check that pesky wire in the rear drivers quarter??that will not allow the fuel pump to work....most of the time that is what is wrong.

To expand on what Cruiser88 said, there is also a ground wire located under the vehicle on the inside of the rear bumper (centered.) Check and make sure that ground wire is intact as well.
-Randy

 

[cruiser88]

To expand on what Cruiser88 said, there is also a ground wire located under the vehicle on the inside of the rear bumper (centered.) Check and make sure that ground wire is intact as well.
-Randy

;pexcellent