Fuel pump or coil/igniter? (1 Viewer)

[mrmanos]

My FJ60 has been running great all summer, no vapor lock issues since I put a cooler thermostat in a year ago. Then today, without warning, cruising around 45 mph, and slowing to round a 90 degree curve, it just stopped running. I had time to get over in the gravel and pop the hood, etc. This happened once before three years ago, and it was the fuel pump. Put another in, been fine since. When it used to vapor lock, shooting a little starting fluid would get it going for a couple seconds, then it’d die, and would only start when the fuel was liquid, about 1/2 an hour. Anyway, a Good Samaritan pulled over, and towed me home. That could be another thread, but I will stick to my problem.
After cooling down all day, I went out and pulled the air cleaner and filter off, and found a small mouse nest. Cleaned it out, then sprayed starting fluid in the carb. Nothing at all. It was as if there was absolutely no spark coming from the coil. None at all. My previous experience was that when the pump was bad, it would still turn over. But this has me thinking it must be the coil and or the igniter. Just thought I’d ask here since a lot of you guys know a lot more about this stuff than I do. Thanks in advance. Mr Manos

 

[fjc-man]

If you’re working on it alone, you really can’t see what is going on while cranking it over with the key unless you have a starter button ( a heavy gauge jumper wire with a push button switch ) that you hook up between the starter solenoid and the positive battery terminal. Turn key on in neutral, actuate button while checking stuff from under the hood.

 

[ToyotaMatt]

 

[mrmanos]

View attachment 3103070​

I actually set traps under the hood every night. And dispose of the bodies every morning. In fact, just before opening my phone to check this thread, I found 2 dead mice in the traps, and 6 in the bucket trap I made, where they walk onto an empty soda can, suspended over a water filled bucket, the can is smeared with peanut butter and they can’t resist. Last week I caught 12 one night, and 9 the following night. About 10 years ago a marmot got under the hood and destroyed the hood liner, all the wiring for my stereo, and about 10 other systems. I shoot those things if they show up on our farm. But I guess I need to check all the wiring. It won’t start with starting fluid, that means no spark. That means either wiring short, or a component failure.

 

[mrmanos]

If you’re working on it alone, you really can’t see what is going on while cranking it over with the key unless you have a starter button ( a heavy gauge jumper wire with a push button switch ) that you hook up between the starter solenoid and the positive battery terminal. Turn key on in neutral, actuate button while checking stuff from under the hood.

I’ll get my wife to crank it over, or tow me to the mechanic we use with her F250 truck and my tow strap. Thanks for your advice

 

[ToyotaMatt]

- you need to look hard and examine the OARNGE Accelerator / Gas Peddle boot on your drivers side fire wall location i show below , they get wear and age and time

holes on them mice can chew on them too and get inside your truck this way

- i have dealt with this more then once in my life

- pull on the boot and flex it a bit too and make sure no holes

- mice can squeeze through a tiny hole , less then you think too , serious .......

NEW ( Orange ) BOOT, ACCELERATOR CONNECTING ROD 10/72-1987 FJ40 FJ60 FJ55 FJ45 HJ60 HJ45 78199-90352-R - VintageTEqParts.com

( Orange) BOOT, ACCELERATOR CONNECTING ROD Sub Assy, Gas Peddle Orange Rubber Boot 78199-90352-R Fits : 10/72-1987 FJ40, FJ60, FJ55, ...

vintageteqparts.com

 

[Gretsch]

Do you see fuel in the carb sight glass OP? Any backfiring when trying to start it?

If you’re working on it alone, you really can’t see what is going on while cranking it over with the key unless you have a starter button ( a heavy gauge jumper wire with a push button switch ) that you hook up between the starter solenoid and the positive battery terminal. Turn key on in neutral, actuate button while checking stuff from under the hood.

You can check for spark this way. Remove a spark plug and ground the body of it against the engine block. Use the method above to get the engine to crank while you watch for spark on the exposed spark plug. You get a remote start switch, remove the starter solenoid terminal plug, clamp one side of the start switch to that terminal and then the other to your battery positive terminal. Truck in neutral, key on, then hit the remote start button and watch for spark on the exposed plug. If you don't have the start switch, then just have a helper turn it over while you watch for spark. HTH.

 

[fjc-man]

Do you see fuel in the carb sight glass OP? Any backfiring when trying to start it?



You can check for spark this way. Remove a spark plug and ground the body of it against the engine block. Use the method above to get the engine to crank while you watch for spark on the exposed spark plug. You get a remote start switch, remove the starter solenoid terminal plug, clamp one side of the start switch to that terminal and then the other to your battery positive terminal. Truck in neutral, key on, then hit the remote start button and watch for spark on the exposed plug. If you don't have the start switch, then just have a helper turn it over while you watch for spark. HTH.

And if you want to jump 3 steps ahead, attach a jumper wire ( with alligator clips ) from the positive battery terminal to the positive (+) side of the coil and see if it starts. For diagnosis only.

 

[mattressking]

Failed coil/igniter is very very uncommon. Do the below test and also verify you have fuel half way in the sight glass. If both pass, then move to coil/ignter if you don't see spark on any cylinder (after manually verifying).

Turn ignition on, but don't start the truck. Disconnect Fuel Cut Solenoid plug on carb, then plug in. You should hear the solenoid click. If it doesn't your emissions computer is intermittent due to cracked solder joints on the plug. Reflow and it should start working again. Temporary fix is to cut the ground wire on the solenoid and ground to carb body or any ground you like.

 

[fjc-man]

What I meant by “jumping “ ahead is for one, it would be bypassing the contact in the electrical portion of the ignition switch. Which if original, has been cycled a couple million times and is probably getting resistant to passing current.

 

[mrmanos]

View attachment 3103070​

Do you see fuel in the carb sight glass OP? Any backfiring when trying to start it?



You can check for spark this way. Remove a spark plug and ground the body of it against the engine block. Use the method above to get the engine to crank while you watch for spark on the exposed spark plug. You get a remote start switch, remove the starter solenoid terminal plug, clamp one side of the start switch to that terminal and then the other to your battery positive terminal. Truck in neutral, key on, then hit the remote start button and watch for spark on the exposed plug. If you don't have the start switch, then just have a helper turn it over while you watch for spark. HTH.

Thanks,I’m going to try that this weekend.

What I meant by “jumping “ ahead is for one, it would be bypassing the contact in the electrical portion of the ignition switch. Which if original, has been cycled a couple million times and is probably getting resistant to passing current.

I’ll do as you suggest. I was thinking about the ignition switch today. The return spring has been broken for years. After starting I have to back the key off a notch, or the starter will still crank. It also has a weird toggle switch in the fuse compartment that the original owner put in, it requires me to push a tiny little button while I turn the key. The guy was an electrical engineer and really neurotic. It was his own anti theft system from 1987. I’m just going to tow it to my mechanic next week and get ready to spend a lot of money that I really don’t have. There could easily be a wire connection gone bad. I catch mice in the engine compartment every single night this time of year. In fact, 8 years ago a marmot, about a foot long and 15 pounds, got under the hood and chewed the crap out of the hood liner, random wires everywhere. It killed my stereo, wouldn’t run at all. The mechanic fixed the basic stuff but said he’d have to do way more work than I could afford at the time. I don’t have a shop to work on it, just a big old dirty horse barn, so unless I magically can get it running, I taking it in. Thanks for the advice. Electrical stuff is mostly out of my league.

 

[mrmanos]

Failed coil/igniter is very very uncommon. Do the below test and also verify you have fuel half way in the sight glass. If both pass, then move to coil/ignter if you don't see spark on any cylinder (after manually verifying).

Turn ignition on, but don't start the truck. Disconnect Fuel Cut Solenoid plug on carb, then plug in. You should hear the solenoid click. If it doesn't your emissions computer is intermittent due to cracked solder joints on the plug. Reflow and it should start working again. Temporary fix is to cut the ground wire on the solenoid and ground to carb body or any ground you like.

When I got towed home, I noticed there was no fuel in carb sight glass, and only a bit in fuel filter. After cranking it, and spraying starting fluid in it, it still didn’t start, but the fuel filter was full to the top. Almost like it was drawing fuel, but not getting into carb. But it always starts with the fluid sprayed down carb throat. That’s why I think it’s not getting any spark. I honestly don’t know enough to figure it out. It’s going to my mechanics shop on Tuesday. Thanks for the reply I appreciate it. Radiator, belts, plugs, brakes are about my limit of mechanical skills. Gotta go to a professional for electrical stuff.

 

[micruz60]

Marmots ! Marmots ate my boots !! Rodents. . . try getting some fox urine and apply liberally to the undercarriage.

 

[Gretsch]

Almost like it was drawing fuel, but not getting into carb. But it always starts with the fluid sprayed down carb throat. That’s why I think it’s not getting any spark.

Do the below test and also verify you have fuel half way in the sight glass. If both pass, then move to coil/ignter if you don't see spark on any cylinder (after manually verifying).

Turn ignition on, but don't start the truck. Disconnect Fuel Cut Solenoid plug on carb, then plug in. You should hear the solenoid click. If it doesn't your emissions computer is intermittent due to cracked solder joints on the plug. Reflow and it should start working again. Temporary fix is to cut the ground wire on the solenoid and ground to carb body or any ground you like.

What @mattressking suggests sounds like it could be a little more likely based on the above quote from you OP. Wondering why you would think this is a spark issue if it starts and runs a bit with starter fluid. To me, starting on starter fluid shows spark is working?

You have ideas to test spark now but based on your last comment, I would agree with @mattressking you would be better served looking at why your carb cannot fill with fuel. Rat's nest in the carb is not a good way to get that done. The Idle Control Solenoid @mattressking is talking about interrupts fuel flow into the carb to prevent engine run on after shutdown, among other things. If its not working right, it could block fuel flow to the carb at times when you don't want it to (like trying to start or idle). I would definitely verify that's working properly using the above quote before you do anything with regards to testing spark. Its a super easy test that takes less than a minute to complete.

This ICS issue was literally the first problem I had with my LC when I first got it. Documented here:

1984 FJ60 Engine Sputtering, Bucking - FIXED!!!

Hello all. Recently picked up my first LandCruiser FJ60. 1984. Great condition overall. I am about 4 days into this so totally new to these vehicles. PO had the carb rebuilt to chase an engine idle problem. Seemed to fix the issue for awhile but during trip home with it on the highway, the...

forum.ih8mud.com

Some decent info in there on what that ICS system does, how it works, and how I fixed it using the solder reflow @mattressking mentions above. Hopefully will prove helpful for your issue. HTH.

 

[Paullus]

Any updates on your troubleshooting? I'm struggling to get my 84 FJ60 to run again. After replacing the fusible link wires the ICS now works, I installed new spark plugs and oem wires. I cleaned the white deposits off the points on the distributor cap. I've got good vacuum at 19 in. After full carb rebuild and some testing I took off air horn and found the new pump plunger rubber was breaking apart so reinstalled old one which uses leather (rubbed motor oil on it first). I could go on with other minor fixes but in the end I tested the aftermarket NUK mechanical fuel pump by disconnecting the hard fuel line, attaching some clear tubing to it and then circling the tubing back to the top of the carb. The fuel deliver was totally unreliable, hit and miss (had already drained fuel tank, added fresh fuel and changed fuel filter).

So I ordered a new fuel pump from @ToyotaMatt and am hoping this will be a step in the right direction.

 

[mrmanos]

Failed coil/igniter is very very uncommon. Do the below test and also verify you have fuel half way in the sight glass. If both pass, then move to coil/ignter if you don't see spark on any cylinder (after manually verifying).

Turn ignition on, but don't start the truck. Disconnect Fuel Cut Solenoid plug on carb, then plug in. You should hear the solenoid click. If it doesn't your emissions computer is intermittent due to cracked solder joints on the plug. Reflow and it should start working again. Temporary fix is to cut the ground wire on the solenoid and ground to carb body or any ground you like.

It was the coil/ igniter! It’s still in the shop because my mechanics assistant broke his back, and he’s always got a bunch of newer vehicles there that are more important than my old rig. Then it’s also hunting season here, and he’s gone a couple days every week. I’ve borrowed a old Yukon from a friend and might just buy it, and junk my Fj60. In 14 years I have never had my rig out of action for this long.

 

[mrmanos]

It was the coil/ igniter! It’s still in the shop because my mechanics assistant broke his back, and he’s always got a bunch of newer vehicles there that are more important than my old rig. Then it’s also hunting season here, and he’s gone a couple days every week. I’ve borrowed a old Yukon from a friend and might just buy it, and junk my Fj60. In 14 years I have never had my rig out of action for this long. He had to get a GM part to replace the igniter and told me that he’s working backwards from coil, to dizzy, etc. And to complicate things even more, the original owner put an anti theft ignition cut switch on the fuse box, and it’s kind of not working too. I’m thinking of getting a remote starter switch and installing it as a permanent replacement for the key, etc. I live on a farm, way out in the boondocks, so I’m not worried about anyone stealing it. I’m 4 miles from the pavement. If I lived in a city I am sure I’d have it fixed by now. It’s been like a month and a half now.

 

[Spike Strip]

It was the coil/ igniter! It’s still in the shop because my mechanics assistant broke his back, and he’s always got a bunch of newer vehicles there that are more important than my old rig. Then it’s also hunting season here, and he’s gone a couple days every week. I’ve borrowed a old Yukon from a friend and might just buy it, and junk my Fj60. In 14 years I have never had my rig out of action for this long.

If you can't find a used Igniter:

Igniter Repair for Cheapskates

No other problems that I've seen with the GM module, other than the tendency for it to overheat after an hour or so of continuous driving. The worst was freeway driving to a friend's place in the Catskills. Fine all the way until I hit the slower mountain roads, then lots of coughing and...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[mrmanos]

My mechanic installed new coil, but igniter was fried, 2 burned wires. He did the GM igniter swap, and had to get diodes, which took ten days to arrive here via USPS. Cranked it up and it runs now. The idle speed is a little high for some reason, 1000 rpm! I’ll turn it down tomorrow and get it back to around 600. Now I need to get my radio fixed after a marmot got under the hood and chewed up a bunch of wires, and new antenna too, after a horse rubbed up against it and broke it off!

 

[mrmanos]

If you can't find a used Igniter:

Igniter Repair for Cheapskates

No other problems that I've seen with the GM module, other than the tendency for it to overheat after an hour or so of continuous driving. The worst was freeway driving to a friend's place in the Catskills. Fine all the way until I hit the slower mountain roads, then lots of coughing and...

forum.ih8mud.com

Exactly what my mechanic did. I live at 7,800’ so it’s pretty cold here except for July August September. And I don’t drive over the continental divide east of here. My LC is what’s called a “Valley Truck”, meaning it doesn’t leave the Yampa valley. I’m not worried about the part getting fried by heat. Thanks for linking that thread.