Front knuckle rebuild

[7StringerFJ60]

It has come time for me to rebuild the knuckles on my 60. I am looking at buying a complete kit from MAF ( http://www.man-a-fre.com/pa6/knucklemajorrebuildkit.htm ).

I have 2 questions:
1) One kit comes with KS bearings and the other with KOYO for a premium price; what are your thoughts? Im not afraid to get in there from time to time and repack the bearings, so are the KOYO worth the extra price?

2) This will be my first go-around with toyota knuckles, are there any pitfalls that i should be worried about that my chiltons manual doesn't go over? Looks fairly straightforward to me, but just thought I'd get your guys' thoughts.

 

[MANUCHAO]

I always try to go with Koyos and have done so.... dont know if they are worth the xtra cash, but they give me piece of mind in that if something fails it wont be the koyos....

I would also try to shop around for a complete kit...with cruiseroutffiters or Georg at Valley hibryds...
Dont forget the snap rings that hold the birfield together...

You should get the FSM from toyota I think is available in here for a free download... chilton is too generic of a manual and does not give you the full description, well FSM does not either, but it is pretty darn close...

Good luck..

 

[3_puppies]

It has come time for me to rebuild the knuckles on my 60. I am looking at buying a complete kit from MAF ( http://www.man-a-fre.com/pa6/knucklemajorrebuildkit.htm ).

I have 2 questions:
1) One kit comes with KS bearings and the other with KOYO for a premium price; what are your thoughts? Im not afraid to get in there from time to time and repack the bearings, so are the KOYO worth the extra price?

2) This will be my first go-around with toyota knuckles, are there any pitfalls that i should be worried about that my chiltons manual doesn't go over? Looks fairly straightforward to me, but just thought I'd get your guys' thoughts.

there are 2 vendors I would buy the rebuild kit from:

1-georg, valley hybrids, goes by orangefj45 here on mud
or
2-Kurt at cruiser outfitters
both will be close if not the same in price, both are good guys with a wealth of knowledge.

the job is straight forward, and messy. you also may need new front pads and new front brake lines.

I may have an extra kit on the shelf in Helena.
Paul

 

[MANUCHAO]

Here is a good link for the job at hand...

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AxleRebuild.shtml

FSM knuckle rebuild

http://hugh4prez.nate-online.com/Cruiser and M416 Manuals/FSM Knuckle Rebuild.pdf

 

[7StringerFJ60]

there are 2 vendors I would buy the rebuild kit from:

1-georg, valley hybrids, goes by orangefj45 here on mud
or
2-Kurt at cruiser outfitters
both will be close if not the same in price, both are good guys with a wealth of knowledge.

the job is straight forward, and messy. you also may need new front pads and new front brake lines.

I may have an extra kit on the shelf in Helena.
Paul

Oh cool, Ill contact you later for more details on what you ma have, thank you!

Here is a good link for the job at hand...

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTricks/AxleRebuild.shtml

FSM knuckle rebuild

http://hugh4prez.nate-online.com/Cruiser and M416 Manuals/FSM Knuckle Rebuild.pdf

Awesome resources! thanks; yes they are indeed far superior to the chiltons manual.

 

[elmariachi]

FYI if you want a video peek. Same process as the 80 once you get past the manually locking hubs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vl53g9EBuE

 

[7StringerFJ60]

FYI if you want a video peek. Same process as the 80 once you get past the manually locking hubs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vl53g9EBuE

Thank you for finding that. When watching that video I found these two videos and watched them. I will definitely be rewatching these several times as this guy works through the whole process.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFWWEmLHBN0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_-rJRpjVEs

 

[SPANNERSPINNER]

Apologies in advance for the wall of text.

Just did my passenger side, will be a couple weeks and I'll do my drivers side. Took two days b/c it's my first, and I completely disassembled and rebuilt everything (and then disassembled and reassembled from the knuckle out b/c I missed a gasket). I helped an Expo forum member out a few months ago to get some experience (Manu and a couple other folks showed up for some sage advice), watched a bunch of YouTube videos, and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. I had to watch the youtube videos more than once b/c I don't always trust myself.

1. I don't know why Toyota did the front brakes the way they did, but just take the brake line apart at connection above the axle, and then fully remove the caliper and shield. It's going to suck, brake fluid is going to run everywhere, and there ain't crap you can do about it except maybe attach one of those cheap brake-line bleeder kits to it to collect the fluid. I tried various plugs to no avail (couldn't find an actual plug). I may try and bypass the stupid shield fitting and just install a stainless flex line on reassembly on my next go-round. Not sure how to make this better.

2. MAKE SURE YOU GET THE INNER BIRF C-CLIP. It was said up top, and I'll repeat it. I didn't and then had to wait a week for shipping from CruiserOutfitters. I'm not sure why the kits don't include this.

3. If you're rebuilding your locking hubs, make sure you get a rebuild kit for them, too, and that it comes with the seal. I rebuilt my locking hubs for my own education but hadn't planned to. Next go-round I'll do it again with the rebuild kit.

4. Use the pipe trick to separate the birf and a section of 1/2" plywood to beat it against. It works, and works well. The shorter axle may take quite a few tries since it doesn't have as much mass. I used steel pipe since, at the job I assisted with, we tried some abs and it just bounced w/o much affect on the birf.

5. Pick up a couple of small brass wire wheels to use in a drill motor assist in cleaning up the axle, the knuckle, the hub, and anything else with years of accumulated rust and crap.

6. Rags. Lots. Buy more than you think you need, then buy the rest in the store. I used newspapers and packing paper, and anything else I could find to get the grease off of things. This is a damned dirty job.

7. Make sure you have a bolt to be able to pull the axle outward for final assembly. Once you're all done, and you need to slap that last C-Clip in place, the axle will be too far in to reach the groove with the clip. Youll need (I think) an M10 to screw into the end of the axle and pull it out. It's the same bolt that fits in the brake drums to separate them.

8. Grease. I almost didn't have enough. I nearly went through two cans of Mobile 1 synthetic grease. Used way more than I thought I would.

Some Links I found helpful as a noob

Birfield assembly:
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_xTOIGX2GE

How to get that damn inner c-clip in (I had to use a zip tie with the tail cut off b/c my hose clap would get bumped by the birf cage before the c-clip was anywhere near in)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfaR...ew-vl&list=PLlTeQKSRkNlZ237BjMYNP2xujXHYQZUbu

Knuckles:
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlcVwWAAHw8
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3CI4mmEv6A

Manual Hub Rebuild
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxSBcAyt2WA

 

[mrt6644]

It has come time for me to rebuild the knuckles on my 60. I am looking at buying a complete kit from MAF ( http://www.man-a-fre.com/pa6/knucklemajorrebuildkit.htm ).

I have 2 questions:
1) One kit comes with KS bearings and the other with KOYO for a premium price; what are your thoughts? Im not afraid to get in there from time to time and repack the bearings, so are the KOYO worth the extra price?

2) This will be my first go-around with toyota knuckles, are there any pitfalls that i should be worried about that my chiltons manual doesn't go over? Looks fairly straightforward to me, but just thought I'd get your guys' thoughts.

This is by far the most complete kit. But is it really necessary to replace all the studs and cone washers? Cone washers maybe, but replacing all the studs is a pain and could cause problems.
Also, the bushing?
I ordered the kit from Kurt, and it has everything except for the c clips for the Birfield.

 

[60Works]

Unless your cone washers and studs are completely trashed, I would reuse the OEM. On a recent axle rebuild I thought I would be very meticulous and thorough by replacing the studs and ordered some from both Iron Pig and Marlin. They looked good but when I torqued them to FSM spec the lock washer squeezed out and the nut's threads tore out. The cones were slightly smaller which would make them a to get out in 10 years. Plus some of the nuts were 13mm instead of 14mm.

I ended up throwing it all out, digging the old cones out of the trash (they are the expensive piece), and buying new OEM hardware. Double the price and triple the time.

My experience is that most of the aftermarket specialty shops seem to get their hardware from the same international vendors and if one is compromised, they all are. OEM costs more but it fits. Every time.

Some vendors use all OEM in their kits. Ask before you buy.

FYI - When you replace the cones, make sure to put the split pointing out. That way, when you have to get them off, if the brass punch trick doesn't work, you can use a cold chisel to open them up by tapping the split from the side.

Good luck.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

...My experience is that most of the aftermarket specialty shops seem to get their hardware from the same international vendors and if one is compromised, they all are. OEM costs more but it fits. Every time... Some vendors use all OEM in their kits. Ask before you buy.

Fwiw, all of the knuckle hardware offered by Cruiser Outfitters is OEM. We have access to all the same import and aftermarket hardware other shops do... it didn't take long (i.e. never sold them to customers) for us to come to the same conclusion about fit, finish and quality.

 

[MicahMan]

Super bump for Kurt I got all my axle stuff from him. Perfect fit and his knowledge and patience with phone calls is awesome!

posted on the go

 

[Elbert]

Go to Kurt or Georg, they know what you need and know what customer service is. I've dealt with both and will do so as long as they are around and I have this tan brick of a 4*4.

 

[Spike Strip]

That MAF kit is nice and complete.... Just hope everything that's pictured is what arrives at your door, and what does arrive is the correct parts

Buy from Kurt or George. -- Make sure to get the MARLIN SEALS.

Get the Koyo, if you need wheel bearings.

Have lots - LOTS - of paper towels. Rubber gloves are nice, too.

IMHO, a good brass drift is a must, and makes getting those cone washer out, much much easier.

Wait 'til you're done to crack the beer

 

[tat2matt]

is MAF still in business? Kurt or Georg never stray from the pack or the wolves will get you! KURT OR GEORG buy from one of them and if you run into problems and post them either if not BOTH of them will comment and help you thru. If you buy from Man-a-not-free (are they still in business?) you not only won't get support but likely won't get what you order.

 

[deaddrift]

That MAF kit is nice and complete.... Just hope everything that's pictured is what arrives at your door, and what does arrive is the correct parts

Buy from Kurt or George. -- Make sure to get the MARLIN SEALS.

Get the Koyo, if you need wheel bearings.

Have lots - LOTS - of paper towels. Rubber gloves are nice, too.

IMHO, a good brass drift is a must, and makes getting those cone washer out, much much easier.

Wait 'til you're done to crack the beer

x2 on all of this.

 

[MANUCHAO]

Fwiw, all of the knuckle hardware offered by Cruiser Outfitters is OEM. We have access to all the same import and aftermarket hardware other shops do... it didn't take long (i.e. never sold them to customers) for us to come to the same conclusion about fit, finish and quality.

Kurt does your kit include the birf "c" clips ?

Wait 'til you're done to crack the beer

Hey where the fun on that...

If you buy from Man-a-not-free (are they still in business?) you not only won't get support but likely won't get what you order.

actually you do get something from Man a Fre....... You get a nasty case of Bad Attitude

keep all your original hardware and replace as needed with OEM
You cant really go wrong with Georg or Kurt


Spannerspinner... good to see you around !!

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Kurt does your kit include the birf "c" clips ? ...

Not in our standard kit, we do however offer all of the different clips as individual parts as needed. I've done a totally informal poll of customers ordering the kits and most don't go into the project with plans to separate the birf from the inner axle. Perhaps we should look into it again? It's a slippery slope, some need thrust washers, some need new spindle nuts, some need the spindle bushings too. The clips wouldn't add too much to the cost but we already get some that ask if they can return the seals and gaskets they didn't replace or the shim packs that fit the different size that we automatically include

How about this solution... we have a re-gear tech thread that helps you formulate a shopping list for a re-gear project:
http://cruiseroutfitters.com/tech_regear.html

Perhaps we do the same thing for the knuckle overhaul process? Walk through the basics of the job, the what to look fors, what to have on hand, which stuff we have and what to get from the parts store. Have a section about the 'other things' you might need while you are there such as the spindle bushing, cone washers, hub o-rings and various clips? I'll get with my office manager Bryce and get something drafted up.

 

[TS888]

The bolt(s) you need to pull the drums and the axle out is an M8, 1.25 thread.

 

[7StringerFJ60]

Not in our standard kit, we do however offer all of the different clips as individual parts as needed. I've done a totally informal poll of customers ordering the kits and most don't go into the project with plans to separate the birf from the inner axle. Perhaps we should look into it again? It's a slippery slope, some need thrust washers, some need new spindle nuts, some need the spindle bushings too. The clips wouldn't add too much to the cost but we already get some that ask if they can return the seals and gaskets they didn't replace or the shim packs that fit the different size that we automatically include

How about this solution... we have a re-gear tech thread that helps you formulate a shopping list for a re-gear project:
http://cruiseroutfitters.com/tech_regear.html

Perhaps we do the same thing for the knuckle overhaul process? Walk through the basics of the job, the what to look fors, what to have on hand, which stuff we have and what to get from the parts store. Have a section about the 'other things' you might need while you are there such as the spindle bushing, cone washers, hub o-rings and various clips? I'll get with my office manager Bryce and get something drafted up.

Awesome, Ill definitely be contacting you soon either through the vendor site or by email. A couple things:
1) Upon removal of the axle, how would i know if i need to separate the birf from the rest of the axle? Id rather not if i do not have to...but then again it may be the best time to clean and repack the joint with grease? Any thoughts there?
2) Does your standard kit come with the inner axle seals? I'm totally spewing out grease diluted with axle oil from the wipers and know i need to replace those. (I'll throw up some pics here in a sec.)