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Frame Recovery Bracket Group Buy
- Thread starter calamaridog
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Ok - out of a total of 20 people that want 30 FRBs, I've got payments from 8 people. I'm hoping to get the order to the machinist on Monday but I need the remaining payments first. I believe I sent out emails to everyone - let me know if you didn't get info. In short - just PM me your paypal email address and I'll send you a paypal invoice with the info you need. The sooner I get the payments the sooner I can place the order - I'm still targeting all payments by tomorrow.
I realize this is a short timeline but I'm looking forward to getting these into your hands! Because of the number of units we're talking about, I'm planning to have a serious chat with the machinist before placing the order to get on the same page. Basically if he cannot have them made within the 1 month timeframe (with a partial delivery half way through), then I will have to look for another source to split the order with to get these out reasonably quick.
I realize this is a short timeline but I'm looking forward to getting these into your hands! Because of the number of units we're talking about, I'm planning to have a serious chat with the machinist before placing the order to get on the same page. Basically if he cannot have them made within the 1 month timeframe (with a partial delivery half way through), then I will have to look for another source to split the order with to get these out reasonably quick.
i just want to say thanks to you for doing this. I cant afford to buy them at the moment, but for you to organise this is good for our LC100/LX470 community on here and in general.
cheers
peter
hoser
SILVER Star
Peter, I have seen recovery brackets available in Australia. These ones hang a bit low but there are others too.
Recovery - Toyota Land Cruiser 100 Series Recovery Points - Adventure Products Home of the Bitz range of Products
Recovery - Toyota Land Cruiser 100 Series Recovery Points - Adventure Products Home of the Bitz range of Products
Question for you guys... what size shackle is ideal for this bracket? With a bore of 1" in the recovery bracket, are you guys using 3/4" or 7/8" shackles?
Assuming Art had them made to my original design you need to utilize a 7/8" shackle (1" pin diameter) as the width of the bracket will not allow a 3/4" shackle...
Thanks for your reply Spresso. Now the 1" bore spec makes sense. FYI, the 3/4" VanBeest "green pin" shackles have a inside dimension of 1.25". Is a 7/8" shackle necessary for our application?
Pay up everybody! Let's get this going!
Assuming they were made to my original design the material is 1.375" thick...so no.
I stand corrected. I thought I saw a CAD drawing somewhere that showed a 1" width.
All makes sense now.
Thanks.
All makes sense now.
Thanks.
I am having them made to this spec:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series...-front-frame-recovery-bracket.html#post885555
The width is 1" which does fit 3/4" shackle.
(I believe there was confusion in one of the earlier group buys about whether it would fit 7/8" shackle - some people bought the 7/8" shackel with 1" pin diameter and it didn't fit without boring the hole out a little more. I believe from one of the posts it sounded like there was an original design for 7/8" but the cad diagram that's been posted above and used was redesigned to work with 3/4" shackle (7/8" pin). It would make sense that the 7/8" shackle (1" pin) version did have thicker (1.25") width, but it also would have needed more than a 1" hole.
See fish2live's issue with it not fitting here https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/207639-tow-hooks-delivered.html#post3089297 and response here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/207639-tow-hooks-delivered.html#post3087728 that it was designed for 3/4" shackle with 7/8" pin that fits nicely into 1" hole.
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As far as status, still waiting on close to half the folks. We'll see where we're at tomorrow.
I spoke with the machinist again about timeframe and he says 1 month won't be an issue and he's got another guy that can help him out if needed.
I have plan B and C just in case though (plan B matched the pricepoint, plan C was a tad more).
I spoke with the machinist again about timeframe and he says 1 month won't be an issue and he's got another guy that can help him out if needed.
I have plan B and C just in case though (plan B matched the pricepoint, plan C was a tad more).
Sorry for the confusion...I had a couple different sizes of these FRBs made.
So since these FRB's are based on a 1" width, would there be any objection by those commmited to purchasing if the bores were spec'd out to accomodate a 3/4" shackle with a 7/8" pin vs. the 7/8" shackle with the 1" pin? By going to the 3/4" shackle, there would be a lot less slop side to side compared to the 7/8" shackle... fitment should be better for the 1" wide FRB.
All thoughts and opinions are welcome.
All thoughts and opinions are welcome.
Just to be clear, 1" hole diameter would not fit a 7/8" shackle with 1" pin. Spresso's design uses a 1" hole for a 3/4" shackle (7/8" pin).
Now, I agree with you in theory that with 3/4" shackles (7/8" pin) the 1" hole is a tad large, but what size hole are you recommending?
Just as a frame of reference this site: Jeep JK Heavy Duty Shackle Mounts - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board states 29/32 would be standard clearance hole for a 3/4" shackle. That's .90625" instead of 1".
I can ask the machinist to bore a smaller hole but since I promised to follow the original spec I would only make a change if everyone who committed is onboard. My understanding is that the other 2 group buys uses the same design (as posted) that I'm planning to use - I think I've read every thread on the topic I could find and i don't remember seeing one complaint about the hole being too large, just a couple posts on too small for the 7/8" shackle (1" pin) that I referenced above. That being said, if the committed buyers want to adjust the hole size to something smaller than 1" I'm ok with it - but I promised everyone to follow the original spec. So we'll let the board speak.
Also - why does anyone care if the hole's too big? Well
1) it increases side load which reduces WLL. I'm not an expert in WLL etc but from the information I have seen on the topic, 45 degree side load reduces the WLL to 70% of original. I believe the most side load we have is 15 degree which I think would take us down to 90% of WLL if my math is correct.
2) it may rattle while driving. So far with the one I have I haven't noticed any rattle. Also for general driving it may be better to remove them anyway (screw pins are easy to steal).
Again, the existing FRBs from the prior two group buys used the same spec that was posted and neither of the two issues above have come up before.
Now, I agree with you in theory that with 3/4" shackles (7/8" pin) the 1" hole is a tad large, but what size hole are you recommending?
Just as a frame of reference this site: Jeep JK Heavy Duty Shackle Mounts - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board states 29/32 would be standard clearance hole for a 3/4" shackle. That's .90625" instead of 1".
I can ask the machinist to bore a smaller hole but since I promised to follow the original spec I would only make a change if everyone who committed is onboard. My understanding is that the other 2 group buys uses the same design (as posted) that I'm planning to use - I think I've read every thread on the topic I could find and i don't remember seeing one complaint about the hole being too large, just a couple posts on too small for the 7/8" shackle (1" pin) that I referenced above. That being said, if the committed buyers want to adjust the hole size to something smaller than 1" I'm ok with it - but I promised everyone to follow the original spec. So we'll let the board speak.
Also - why does anyone care if the hole's too big? Well
1) it increases side load which reduces WLL. I'm not an expert in WLL etc but from the information I have seen on the topic, 45 degree side load reduces the WLL to 70% of original. I believe the most side load we have is 15 degree which I think would take us down to 90% of WLL if my math is correct.
2) it may rattle while driving. So far with the one I have I haven't noticed any rattle. Also for general driving it may be better to remove them anyway (screw pins are easy to steal).
Again, the existing FRBs from the prior two group buys used the same spec that was posted and neither of the two issues above have come up before.
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As a former USAF machinist, I would personally be fine with reducing the hole diameter to accommodate the 7/8" pin more closely.
It will accomplish two things:
1. It will reduce the amount of slop in the fitment between the parent metal (ie, the bracket itself) and the pin, thereby reducing the possibility of the hole "egging" out over time (not a huge concern since the design switch from aluminum to steel), and reducing the possibility of torsional side load as Art mentioned, keeping the WLL close to the max rated level (a much bigger concern in off-camber winching/recovery applications).
2. By making the hole smaller to more closely fit the pin, you're not removing any excess material from the bracket unnecessarily, thereby increasing the wall thickness surrounding the hole, and improving the overall strength of the bracket.
It would be just as easy to have them INCREASE the hole size by .025 or so to fit the 1" diameter pin, but the 3/4" shackle is more than strong enough to handle this application, and by increasing the hole diameter you're just decreasing the overall strength of the part by removing more material. Besides, using a 7/8" shackle would be overkill anyway IMO. You'd bend the frame before you'd kill a 7/8" shackle...personally I'd rather have the shackle break.
Anyway, that's a long way of saying that I'm ok with changing the hole size.
It will accomplish two things:
1. It will reduce the amount of slop in the fitment between the parent metal (ie, the bracket itself) and the pin, thereby reducing the possibility of the hole "egging" out over time (not a huge concern since the design switch from aluminum to steel), and reducing the possibility of torsional side load as Art mentioned, keeping the WLL close to the max rated level (a much bigger concern in off-camber winching/recovery applications).
2. By making the hole smaller to more closely fit the pin, you're not removing any excess material from the bracket unnecessarily, thereby increasing the wall thickness surrounding the hole, and improving the overall strength of the bracket.
It would be just as easy to have them INCREASE the hole size by .025 or so to fit the 1" diameter pin, but the 3/4" shackle is more than strong enough to handle this application, and by increasing the hole diameter you're just decreasing the overall strength of the part by removing more material. Besides, using a 7/8" shackle would be overkill anyway IMO. You'd bend the frame before you'd kill a 7/8" shackle...personally I'd rather have the shackle break.
Anyway, that's a long way of saying that I'm ok with changing the hole size.
make it so you can use the same shackles as the Slee rear bumper. Having a pair of shackles that work on either end is much nicer.
That's my vote (not sure what size that implies), but would like to carry only a single set of shackles that I can use front and rear...
