I've got the 3/4 ones with the 7/8" pin.
Frame Recovery Bracket Group Buy
- Thread starter calamaridog
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These are designed to use 3/4" shackles (7/8" pin) - that part of the design is not changing. I don't know what size shackles the slee bumper uses.
The only question here is how tight the tolerance is for the hole that the pin fits into. We can keep it 1" as was posted in the original design or we can tighten it up so it's a nicer fit (say .89 or .9 inch diameter).
I don't have a strong opinion on the tolerance for the hole. I'm happy to go with what ever you land on. ...my sense is that at least in my use these will not be used everyday, and thus my concerns about wear, etc. are minimal. Just very excited to get something robust to mount a shackle on up-front.
Thanks again!
Tighter you make the tolerance the more difficult it may be to insert the shackle pin when coated with mud. Why mess with something that works now? Just build them already!
Still waiting on payments from 8 folks.
(And as for the change - I'm just responding to a request from one of the buyers. If they want the change I'll make it, if not not. Right now this question doesn't delay the order - if it comes to that I'll just stick with the original plan. What I don't want is people to order them and be disappointed with the fit.)
Payment sent,
I would also like to vote for tighter tolerances for all the reasons outlined by TheFuzz.
I don't really care about the shackle rattling around because I won't have it in the bracket unless I need it, but it would make for a much stronger, longer lasting and safer bracket.
Thanks a lot for putting this together.
I would also like to vote for tighter tolerances for all the reasons outlined by TheFuzz.
I don't really care about the shackle rattling around because I won't have it in the bracket unless I need it, but it would make for a much stronger, longer lasting and safer bracket.
Thanks a lot for putting this together.
My vote would be for the tighter tolerance as well. A 0.900" bore will allow for minor variations in 3/4" shackle pin dimensions as well as allow functionality in dirty conditions.
Come on guys submit your payment. Don't miss this opportunity !
I'm planning to call in the order tonight - there were only a few people that I haven't heard from but we've got more than 20 units without them so it should be a go. I'll give it till 6pm.
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I haven't seen/heard any complaints from the buyers about going .9" instead of 1". Also - looks like the standard hole size for 7/8" "free fit" clearance according to other sources is 29/32 (anyone have access to the ASME standards?). I'll check with the machinist but I'll plan on going with either .9" or .906" based on his recommendation. Also, since this is a change midway through and I didn't see responses from every buyer, if anyone does have an issue with it within a reasonable timeframe I'll do what I can to make it right and have theirs bored to 1" to spec. Good news there is it can be bored out more if anyone wanted. Also remember this is not designed to fit 7/8" shackles that have 1" pin - 1" hole would not have permitted that without further boring or a press or something anyway.
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I haven't seen/heard any complaints from the buyers about going .9" instead of 1". Also - looks like the standard hole size for 7/8" "free fit" clearance according to other sources is 29/32 (anyone have access to the ASME standards?). I'll check with the machinist but I'll plan on going with either .9" or .906" based on his recommendation. Also, since this is a change midway through and I didn't see responses from every buyer, if anyone does have an issue with it within a reasonable timeframe I'll do what I can to make it right and have theirs bored to 1" to spec. Good news there is it can be bored out more if anyone wanted. Also remember this is not designed to fit 7/8" shackles that have 1" pin - 1" hole would not have permitted that without further boring or a press or something anyway.
)
A 3/4 shackle has a 7/8" pin. That's .875" and try putting that in a .900" hole. You have only .025" of clearance then. That 1/40th of an inch isn't much when you consider Powdercoat thickness, mud, road grime, and for some of us, snow.
Update - order placed. If anyone else wants in let me know - I may be able to add to the order at the same price.
I'm planning to get batch #1 (roughly half) the second week of March (~3/12) and the remaining units the end of March (~3/26). I'll keep everyone posted as/if there are any additional updates.
Here are the orders I've got:
Mxndrnks - 2
puerto rico 4x4 - 1
sonk76 - 2
SupraTuRD - 1
LJ_24 - 1
gearguywb - 1
TheFuzz - 1
staggrlee - 2
BrokeRob1 - 1
SmoothLC - 2
MemCruiser - 2
teambell - 1
pman - 2
Big Bore Lover - 2
nautilus - 1
kaisersosay - 2
2000UZJ - 2
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In terms of hole size, I asked him to use 29/32 (.906") hole size - he pointed out that the hole will be slightly larger than that anyway (I guess b/c tolerance might be +- .005").
I also looked into the thickness of powder coat and it appears that it can vary depending on the method used but it can range from 5 mils to 30 (a mil is 1/1000") so that's .005 to .030. It also looks like most powder coats are more like 5 to 12 mils (.005" to .012"). So assuming .906 hole, we have .031" clearance which should make for nice fitting shackles that are not too tight tolerance. Bear in mind the 29/32 is not a number I made up - it's referenced as the standard for free fit clearance and as an example of this application, pirate4x4 uses that hole size for their shackle mounts designed for 3/4" shackles: Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board - View Single Post - Jeep JK Heavy Duty Shackle Mounts for whatever that's worth.
If any buyers have an issue or concern with this please let me know as soon as possible.
Thanks!
Art
I'm planning to get batch #1 (roughly half) the second week of March (~3/12) and the remaining units the end of March (~3/26). I'll keep everyone posted as/if there are any additional updates.
Here are the orders I've got:
Mxndrnks - 2
puerto rico 4x4 - 1
sonk76 - 2
SupraTuRD - 1
LJ_24 - 1
gearguywb - 1
TheFuzz - 1
staggrlee - 2
BrokeRob1 - 1
SmoothLC - 2
MemCruiser - 2
teambell - 1
pman - 2
Big Bore Lover - 2
nautilus - 1
kaisersosay - 2
2000UZJ - 2
------------
In terms of hole size, I asked him to use 29/32 (.906") hole size - he pointed out that the hole will be slightly larger than that anyway (I guess b/c tolerance might be +- .005").
I also looked into the thickness of powder coat and it appears that it can vary depending on the method used but it can range from 5 mils to 30 (a mil is 1/1000") so that's .005 to .030. It also looks like most powder coats are more like 5 to 12 mils (.005" to .012"). So assuming .906 hole, we have .031" clearance which should make for nice fitting shackles that are not too tight tolerance. Bear in mind the 29/32 is not a number I made up - it's referenced as the standard for free fit clearance and as an example of this application, pirate4x4 uses that hole size for their shackle mounts designed for 3/4" shackles: Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board - View Single Post - Jeep JK Heavy Duty Shackle Mounts for whatever that's worth.
If any buyers have an issue or concern with this please let me know as soon as possible.
Thanks!
Art
I'm guessing none of you have ever towed before, light or heavy recovery, or done rigging for heavy weight picks.
I wouldn't want to be you when your shackle binds instead of rotating freely... because when that thing releases under load, it's going to put a hell of a sharp shock into whatever line you're using. If it's wire rope, you're likely to kill someone.
Hope you guys have good insurance.
I wouldn't want to be you when your shackle binds instead of rotating freely... because when that thing releases under load, it's going to put a hell of a sharp shock into whatever line you're using. If it's wire rope, you're likely to kill someone.
Hope you guys have good insurance.
How about 15/16 hole size giving 1/16 clearance - that should be better fit and way more than enough space to rotate freely? Still tighter clearance than 1/8".
According to this: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/224920-what-size-shackles-do-i-need.html#post3376461 the 1/16" clearance is what spressomon had planned for the larger shackle design anyway (1 1/16" hole for 1" pin).
I just submitted the change and will follow up with him tomorrow. Hopefully this is a happy medium - meets the request some buyers had to tighten the clearance, and also addresses any safety concerns or powder coat thickness/dirt/grime/snow concerns by not being too tight.
Thanks for the input guys. I think this is it for changes.
According to this: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/224920-what-size-shackles-do-i-need.html#post3376461 the 1/16" clearance is what spressomon had planned for the larger shackle design anyway (1 1/16" hole for 1" pin).
I just submitted the change and will follow up with him tomorrow. Hopefully this is a happy medium - meets the request some buyers had to tighten the clearance, and also addresses any safety concerns or powder coat thickness/dirt/grime/snow concerns by not being too tight.
Thanks for the input guys. I think this is it for changes.
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I've got mine already 
I'd like a set. Let me know
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1/16" is fine if everyone is using the same shackle with a definite spec size and nearly zero variance from batch to batch. As we all know, tolerances differ between the various brands' castings and forgings since the shackles are not cnc machined to mils or thousandths. 1/16" to 1/8" is therefore a bare minimum to ensure the variations in shackle pins will fit without binding or threading into the bracket coating of choice. Side loading over that gap will cause a lateral stress that could lead to another set of compromises, less than that would add to the likelihood of shear that could cause deflection of the shackle or pin as well as binding issues. As long as the shackle can rotate around its horzintal axis and the pull line can move freely you should encounter no problems.
Just remember that in most every case, a strong gentle pull will have better results than a big jerk.
Thanks!
To assuage any concerns participants in the group buy may have:
1) at least some shackles use < .875" as the actual pin diameter. For example one participant measured his green pin shackle (by van beest) at .866". Of course it's possible that due to tolerances some may end up tad > .875 I can't say. But if some manufacturers intentionally make the tad smaller than .875 that gives even more clearance.
2) the hole can always be bored out more if needed.
3) within a reasonable time frame (2 weeks?) after receipt of the shackles, if anyone has an issue with a 3/4" (7/8" pin) where the pin fit is too tight due to the hole (and not caked paint drips or something that can easily be sanded off or debris that can be cleaned out with a finger), I'll work it out with them.
The goal is for everyone to have safe, solid recovery points - enough clearance not to bind, tight enough not to side load.
To assuage any concerns participants in the group buy may have:
1) at least some shackles use < .875" as the actual pin diameter. For example one participant measured his green pin shackle (by van beest) at .866". Of course it's possible that due to tolerances some may end up tad > .875 I can't say. But if some manufacturers intentionally make the tad smaller than .875 that gives even more clearance.
2) the hole can always be bored out more if needed.
3) within a reasonable time frame (2 weeks?) after receipt of the shackles, if anyone has an issue with a 3/4" (7/8" pin) where the pin fit is too tight due to the hole (and not caked paint drips or something that can easily be sanded off or debris that can be cleaned out with a finger), I'll work it out with them.
The goal is for everyone to have safe, solid recovery points - enough clearance not to bind, tight enough not to side load.
Agaisin,
Just wanted to applaud you for all your efforts to both organize the effort and accommodate the varying desires of the group. Great job.
Thank you.
For added confidence, a few minutes of searching yielded the following products that use 15/16" holes for 3/4" shackles so looks like this should be the magic number :
- Garvin Industries 34900 - Garvin Wilderness Swing Away Bumper and Tire Systems - Overview - SummitRacing.com
("The heavy-duty Clevis mounts have a 15/16 in. diameter hole and will accept the large 3/4 in. diameter pin shackles.")
- RockRatz, LLC - Jeep Cherokee/Comanche Over The Top Front Winch Bumper (fb3xm)
("Two mounting locations for off-road lights, anchor shackle holes built into frame of bumper for 3/4 shackles (15/16" holes).")
- New Page 1
("The bumper comes with two shackle points that are 2 3/4" x 3/4" solid steel with 15/16 holes for your shackles." in reference to a bumper with 3/4" shackle mounting points)
- Rustys Offroad: EXT Series Swing-Away Bumper, 76-86 CJ7
("The heavy duty Clevis mounts have a 15/16" diameter hole and will accept the large 3/4" diameter pin shackles.")
- Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board - View Single Post - Are you are DIYer?? Look at these new additions just for the home fabricator!
(post #10: "The clevis mounts are 1" wide and 2" tall with CNC machined rounded ends and a 15/16" hole to fit standard 3/4" shackles with a 7/8" pin.")
- YJ Swing-out Tire Carrier, Stinger Front Bumper - Texas Offroad Network Forums
("This bumper has 2 shackle points that go all the way thru. The shackle point are 2 3/4" x 3/4 solid steel with 15/16 holes for your shackles" I think this is the same as the TKH fabrication bumper above though).
:- Garvin Industries 34900 - Garvin Wilderness Swing Away Bumper and Tire Systems - Overview - SummitRacing.com
("The heavy-duty Clevis mounts have a 15/16 in. diameter hole and will accept the large 3/4 in. diameter pin shackles.")
- RockRatz, LLC - Jeep Cherokee/Comanche Over The Top Front Winch Bumper (fb3xm)
("Two mounting locations for off-road lights, anchor shackle holes built into frame of bumper for 3/4 shackles (15/16" holes).")
- New Page 1
("The bumper comes with two shackle points that are 2 3/4" x 3/4" solid steel with 15/16 holes for your shackles." in reference to a bumper with 3/4" shackle mounting points)
- Rustys Offroad: EXT Series Swing-Away Bumper, 76-86 CJ7
("The heavy duty Clevis mounts have a 15/16" diameter hole and will accept the large 3/4" diameter pin shackles.")
- Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board - View Single Post - Are you are DIYer?? Look at these new additions just for the home fabricator!
(post #10: "The clevis mounts are 1" wide and 2" tall with CNC machined rounded ends and a 15/16" hole to fit standard 3/4" shackles with a 7/8" pin.")
- YJ Swing-out Tire Carrier, Stinger Front Bumper - Texas Offroad Network Forums
("This bumper has 2 shackle points that go all the way thru. The shackle point are 2 3/4" x 3/4 solid steel with 15/16 holes for your shackles" I think this is the same as the TKH fabrication bumper above though).
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