FJ62 Steering Gearbox - Worth Going Saginaw? (1 Viewer)

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Have you ever seen a twisted sector shaft on a FJ60/FJ62 steering box? It's a fairly common problem on the FJ/FZJ80 steering boxes. The common fix is to upgrade to a 105 sector shaft.

I have a '60 sector sitting right here that looks like a banana, any of them can be bent/broken, but not that common with any of them. Lots of big pig '80s have done many years of hard wheeling, 37" tires, etc, without failure, again not that common, just one thing (of many) that '80 cry about. Given the same stress the '60 box will fail much sooner/easier.

Maybe tighter, not sure about more powerful, maybe less prone to leakage, but definitely not stronger.

My experience differs, have put both on '40s, locked/35" tires, the '80 box provides more power assist, is overall a better driving experience. As it should, has a larger piston area, so will make more power from the same hydraulic pressure.

As for the pump, the FJ60 pump flat out sucks in anything other than the stock application. This is due primarily to the fact that the reservoir is attached directly to the pump and always leaks. In addition, the bronze bushing the main shaft rides on wears out, causing more pump leakage, which makes the pumps unrebuildable if its worn out.

Agree, not a fan of the '60/slipper type pump, but thought the subject was '62 pumps? The reservoir on the Saginaw also connects directly to the pump, users often pry on it deforming it, takes two o-rings to seal, most often to a deformed sheet metal surface. The '62 reservoir takes one o-ring sealing with machined metal surfaces, simple, $.20 fix. Have fought many more leakage issues with Saginaw than Toyota pumps. The '62 pumps are ball bearing supported, it's easily replaceable and ~$8. https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/the-dsrtrdr-is-getting-some-tlc.749124/page-22#post-8791086 Note the bearing on the shaft in the second pic, they are rarely bad, almost never replace them.

A saginaw pump appears to pump more pressure and/or more volume, as my steering assist greatly improved with nothing other than a saginaw pump addition. No, I'm not aware of the condition of my stock PS pump other than the reservoir always leaked and required fluid.

Don't even start talking about the cost benefit of going with a saginaw!

There are a bunch of differing Saginaw pumps, some larger, some smaller, some bushing supported, all are vane pumps, like the '62. '80, etc. Agree on the swap cost thing, would be embarrassing: For the Saginaw; need a pump, bracket to mount, pulley that fits, hoses and/or adapters, possibly move other parts out of the way, a belt of the new proper length, etc. To use the '62 pump need a ~$10 seal kit, maybe a ~$8 bearing, very simple to build, reseal... We have built/run both, Saginaw on GM swaps, Toyota on non swaps, on both '60 and '80 boxes, note little if any difference in performance.
 
I have a '60 sector sitting right here that looks like a banana, any of them can be bent/broken, but not that common with any of them. Lots of big pig '80s have done many years of hard wheeling, 37" tires, etc, without failure, again not that common, just one thing (of many) that '80 cry about. Given the same stress the '60 box will fail much sooner/easier.

My experience differs, have put both on '40s, locked/35" tires, the '80 box provides more power assist, is overall a better driving experience. As it should, has a larger piston area, so will make more power from the same hydraulic pressure.

Agree, not a fan of the '60/slipper type pump, but thought the subject was '62 pumps? The reservoir on the Saginaw also connects directly to the pump, users often pry on it deforming it, takes two o-rings to seal, most often to a deformed sheet metal surface. The '62 reservoir takes one o-ring sealing with machined metal surfaces, simple, $.20 fix. Have fought many more leakage issues with Saginaw than Toyota pumps. The '62 pumps are ball bearing supported, it's easily replaceable and ~$8. https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/the-dsrtrdr-is-getting-some-tlc.749124/page-22#post-8791086 Note the bearing on the shaft in the second pic, they are rarely bad, almost never replace them.

There are a bunch of differing Saginaw pumps, some larger, some smaller, some bushing supported, all are vane pumps, like the '62. '80, etc. Agree on the swap cost thing, would be embarrassing: For the Saginaw; need a pump, bracket to mount, pulley that fits, hoses and/or adapters, possibly move other parts out of the way, a belt of the new proper length, etc. To use the '62 pump need a ~$10 seal kit, maybe a ~$8 bearing, very simple to build, reseal... We have built/run both, Saginaw on GM swaps, Toyota on non swaps, on both '60 and '80 boxes, note little if any difference in performance.

:lol:

This thread was originally about "FJ62 Steering Gearboxes". We drove the thread back to the pumps.

*edited to be more useful*

Alright Mr. Patterson, you think I'm wrong! I'm fine with that. I was not aware that the FJ62 pump is bearing supported, so thank you for the lesson! Yes, some saginaw pumps have integrated reservoirs, but I've personally not had any issues with Saginaws with integrated reservoirs sealing. In my experience, every FJ60/FJ62 has a leaky pump, some even after a reseal. Obviously our experiences are exactly opposite. Not sure why that is.

You go ahead and use your 80 box with the FJ62 PS pump and I'll continue with my 60/62 box with saginaw pump. I've never had a problem with my box or saginaw pump, on my truck or the couple we've put saginaws on, nor have I had a need for hydro assist. I've personally seen a half dozen 80s with 37s or smaller twist/break the sector shaft. Have yet to see one done in a 60. I'll try my best to twist/break my sector shaft to prove myself wrong though :)
 
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I don't think 60 series PS pump sucks coz the attached reservoir .. ( no scientific test to prove it sure ) coz my 2H PS pump sucks big time too and it's a factory remote reservoir setup ..
 
Sector shaft is equivalent as far as strength goes 60/80. The reason they die on 80's is that 80's are huge pigs..

I see no huge improvements in the 80 steering box over the 60 steering box.

The reason the shaft gets twisted on 80s is that the power piston is bigger and the box has more power. Both boxes are otherwise basically identical in how they are made. It isn't the size/weight of the vehicle as much as it is a box with more power to twist up the sector shaft. This is partially addressed by using the 105 sector shaft and pittman arm-I think Toyota wised up and realized they needed a stronger sector shaft.

Now *if* I wanted to upgrade the steering on my FJ62, I would use an 80 box upgraded with a new sector shaft from the 105. To give credit-I believe it was Cruiser Dan that came up with this.
 
So the stock 60 steering box is as strong as the stock 80 steering box, but the 80 steering box with a 105 sector shaft is stronger than a 60. In addition, the 80 steering box has a larger piston, which means it provides more assist, but also means that it more easily twists / breaks the stock sector shaft. Makes sense to me!
 
:lol:

This thread was originally about "FJ62 Steering Gearboxes". We drove the thread back to the pumps.

*edited to be more useful*

Alright Mr. Patterson, you think I'm wrong! I'm fine with that. I was not aware that the FJ62 pump is bearing supported, so thank you for the lesson! Yes, some saginaw pumps have integrated reservoirs, but I've personally not had any issues with Saginaws with integrated reservoirs sealing. In my experience, every FJ60/FJ62 has a leaky pump, some even after a reseal. Obviously our experiences are exactly opposite. Not sure why that is.

You go ahead and use your 80 box with the FJ62 PS pump and I'll continue with my 60/62 box with saginaw pump. I've never had a problem with my box or saginaw pump, on my truck or the couple we've put saginaws on, nor have I had a need for hydro assist. I've personally seen a half dozen 80s with 37s or smaller twist/break the sector shaft. Have yet to see one done in a 60. I'll try my best to twist/break my sector shaft to prove myself wrong though :)

I don't see a win, just differing experiences? Agree that anything can be broken, some are good at breaking a steel ball in a rubber room. Have seen the lower sector bearing area broken out of Saginaw box cases!. The rigs we wheel with/work on are a mixed bag, many of them came stock with Saginaw, have my preference, but not hung on any brand. It comes down to intended use, for some no box will last, have to run full hydro, but for the vast majority of Cruiser owners a stock box works well. Haven't done it, yet, but based on our '40 swap experience the '80 box will be a nice upgrade for a '62 that is medium aggressively wheeled

Locally, we don't have many '60s that are wheeled hard, it's mostly '40s, '80s and minis/4funners. Most of the carnage is in the big tire minis/4funners, the IFS box has the same architecture as the '60 box. They mainly fail internally, twist/bend/break the sector between the bearings, the outward signs are fluid pouring out the lower seal, bound and/or impossible to turn. The carnage isn't fully realized until disassembled, the cover is difficult to remove, the sector has to be pressed out, most times this ruins the case, so don't even bother, toss it and move to a core.

This is likely why Toyota made the '80 box/sector/bearings beefier? Why they put the little spline on them is unknown, but it makes it nice for swaps, the earlier/aftermarket arms fit. The most often fail mode is external, so much more dramatic! I have only seen a couple of them broken, the first indication of failure is spline twist, if inspected often can be caught before total failure, yep, have a pretty good collection of twisted '80 sectors. They don't often ruin the rest of the box, swap the sector and good to go. Yes, there is the 105 upgrade, but, from a swap perspective, you have the choice of one arm, IMHO if you are beating it hard enough to regularly fail '80 boxes, it's time for something else.

It's difficult to see in pictures/FSM drawings they look somewhat the same. When disassembled side by side, the differences are immediately obvious, just about everything in the '80 box is significantly bigger, more solid, when compared to the '60 box. If you think that '60 boxes are stronger than the '80 box and know an '80 that is wheeled hard, stick a '60 box in it, my guess is; that experiment wont end well. The same logic says the '80 box would be a nice upgrade in a late '60 or '62, will be stronger, tighter, longer lasting and have a better overall driving experience, just as we have seen with the '80 box into '40 swaps.
 
Is a 80 box a direct bolt in to a 62?

there is a bolt pattern change in...84? ...I think...so depending on your rig, then yes, or no...
 
to the OP... what does Georg say?- that's what I ask myself...


IIUC, the sag pump is doable in a 60 w/o much fuss, but not so in a 62, as stated. the factory steering box should be fine for moderate sized tires(as stated). if it is bad, it can be replaced w/o much more fuss than $$$. I own a stockish 62, and a 55 series single cab pick-up with a rebuilt monster 2f pushing an 84 H42 and split case twisting a 94 fzj80 ff rear e locking disk brake axle on 285s...I still run manual on that on- DAILY 96 miles and 7400 round trip feet, which includes 3 1/2 miles of MOUNTain, subaru killing dirt road each way( 7 miles daily in LO gear, total)/.//point is, I NEED PS...and I'm going to use an fzj80 box with a toyota pump- maybe run a sag pump someday if I don't go 2FE. I would suspect the 60 box should be good for about 35s, the 62 box about the same, based on my understanding of a conversation with Georg(cruiser genius on all things diesel and geared and then some- way cool cat to boot.)...the 80 box is a bit more stout that the 6X series, but we begin to split hairs and must ask what the desired use is and go backward from there... and try drivin an armstrong steering box with 33" landscape rollers someday so you understand that you're golden as you sit;)
 
I've used a stock FJ60 steering gear box with 37s for a number of years now on my FJ60. It's been OK on the Rubicon, Dusy Ershim, and everything else. If I went bigger than 37s I'd want hydro assist, but really, it's fine. I did have the box rebuilt last year and that was a major improvement in terms of leakage and slop.
 
Now *if* I wanted to upgrade the steering on my FJ62, I would use an 80 box upgraded with a new sector shaft from the 105. To give credit-I believe it was Cruiser Dan that came up with this.

This sounds like it'd be something worth looking into after properly dialing in the linkage...
 
Why I'm a Saginaw fan.
1. Cheap replacement parts
2. haven't broke one yet .( something more common on boxes with longer sector shafts )
3. with a tiny drill bit and an assortment of stock shims, using the large bore box ( i.e early 70's Coupe De Ville )
and create a saginaw combination that will turn aired down 40" swampers with one finger on pavement
 
Don't know why you don't like the factory power steering pump. It lasts for 200k miles, turns 35s or 37 just fine and fits like it was meant to. To add a saginaw pump to a 60 means removing the air pump so your smog status goes out the window. It is significantly more expensive, but it fits and will last a long time. And a 60 and 62 pump are almost the same. At least the exact same style of vane pump.

The Saginaw is much cheaper though-rebuilds in the $50 range, but you need to make brackets for it, source pulleys, new belts in odd sizes etc. Just not worth the effort for a rebuilt pump that's going to last 50K.

I do agree that getting the stock steering gear box rebuilt is the cost effective solution here.

Not sure what saginaw pump you're looking at, but you do not need to remove the air pump. I've got a saginaw running just fine in my very stock 1985 FJ60, with full smog. What you DO need is a new bracket & pulley.
 
Not sure what saginaw pump you're looking at, but you do not need to remove the air pump. I've got a saginaw running just fine in my very stock 1985 FJ60, with full smog. What you DO need is a new bracket & pulley.

post up the cool pics showing the setup.
 
I've rebuilt two steering boxes myself (one is currently a newly rebuilt spare). Kit was $34. Since I hate rust, it took MUCH longer to clean, prime, and paint the gearbox than it did to rebuild it. I got the kit from RockAuto. One of the numbers is Centric 143.44012.

It was simple to rebuild, and it hasn't leaked since I rebuilt it.
 
Not sure what saginaw pump you're looking at, but you do not need to remove the air pump. I've got a saginaw running just fine in my very stock 1985 FJ60, with full smog. What you DO need is a new bracket & pulley.

Where did you source the bracket and pulley? Or did you fab the bracket yourself?
 
Here is the setup. I turned the pulley and tapered sheave out of AL (it was my anodizing experiment), however I have part numbers for the equivalent parts commercially, and the belt is the same as stock. I'm thinking we are way off topic.

InVehicle2-sm.jpg
 
Here is the setup. I turned the pulley and tapered sheave out of AL (it was my anodizing experiment), however I have part numbers for the equivalent parts commercially, and the belt is the same as stock. I'm thinking we are way off topic.

View attachment 922332

Nice. Yeah, off topic for sure...but I'd be interested in those parts numbers either way, to try and find my way back into installing the Saginaw PS pump with my smog pump remaining mounted. I have no fab skills (yet) and have no fab (ever?)...
 
I built my own. I really like the Saginaw conversion, mainly because I had two rebuild stock pumps start leaking (from the shaft) in a row, and they are not cheap. The Saginaw is $34 from Autozone. I also built the adapter to go from the pump to the stock steering box, since I couldn't find what I wanted pre-made. If folks are interested, I'll start a new thread on my Saginaw conversion, including part numbers.
bracketv2-sm.jpg
 

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