FJ62 Starter Stuck On Unless Battery Disconnected (1 Viewer)

[jebb]

Hi-- just fired up my land cruiser after getting the starter rebuilt due to intermittent start issues. The guy at the shop mentioned replacing a relay before as well but that didn't fix the problem.

Anyway, the starter stays engaged, even taking the keys out of the ignition doesn't turn it off. Have to disconnect battery, THEN it shuts off.

I figured maybe the relay was stuck, there's one under the dash thats labeled 'IGNITION' on the parts diagrams, I pulled it and put the battery back on and the starter still screams so it's not that. The other relays down there seem unrelated: flashers, headlights, a/c...

Is there another relay that could be stuck on that kicks the battery power to the starter? Or anyone have any other ideas?

 

[Spike Strip]

My guess is the Starter Solenoid is bad or the starter Relay. Just because someone rebuilt the starter doesn't mean it was done right. Just because it's new, doesn't mean it's working, particularly if ChiComm parts were used.

 

[bentonrover]

Only way to be sure and less of a headache is to put a new or remand in.

 

[jebb]

Having trouble diagnosing it because I don't understand how it's supposed to work. Starter has 4 wires: a big ground wire and a big power wire, and two low-amp wires I assumed are the ignition signal wires (basically if current flows on these, that should close some relay that gives real power to the starter). I take the black one out and connect the battery, the starter still cranks. So I guess whatever that control wire triggers to close, some relay inside the starter, is stuck closed.

Man replacing the starter seems like a big pain, but taking it back to the shop like this, the starter is gonna burn out on the way.

 

[Spike Strip]

The starter solenoid (smaller cylinder on top of the starter motor) is a kind of relay. When 12v is applied to solenoid (by turning ignition key and turning the electrical switch behind it), solenoid simultaneously closes (completes a circuit) which allows full battery voltage to the motor and forces the drive gear forward to make contact and engage the ring gear on the flywheel, turning over the engine.

When you release the key, voltage to the starter solenoid is stopped, the gear retracts (switch opens) and voltage is stopped going to the starter motor.

Once engine is running, the starter is thus disengaged.

You *may* have something hooked up wrong, but since there's no pictures ...

If you're unable to diagnose, trying a new starter or having the current one tested is a must. Autozone still on Lincoln Blvd?

Don't drive it; you'll **** things up if the starter is not disengaging.

 

[jebb]

> Autozone still on Lincoln Blvd?

Ha. On Washington but close enough.

 

[jebb]

> You *may* have something hooked up wrong, but since there's no pictures ...

Well, I just picked it up from K & H (who did the work) and I didn't re-hook anything up, so I doubt it.

Anyway, thanks for the explanation. My guess is, given how it's supposed to work, the fact that it doesn't disengage when I unhook the switch wires means the contacts are stuck in the "electromagnet" side, maybe it welded itself together. There doesn't seem to be another relay between the solenoid and the battery in the high-current main power wires. So the starter and solenoid need to come out.

I still need to find a diagram of how this actually works. I was imagining that solenoid was there to pop out the starter's pinion and engage it with the flywheel. And so I was imagining there'd have to be a different normal "switch" type relay that switched the battery power across the starter motor windings when the key was turned. Having a hard time picturing how the solenoid is doing both jobs but I guess...just put some contacts on the moving part and the you're killing two birds with one stone so to speak.

 

[Spike Strip]

> Autozone still on Lincoln Blvd?

Ha. On Washington but close enough.

Ah, they must've moved. When I was living there, there was one on Pico and Lincoln and another a few miles South on Lincoln, past Abbott Kinney (when the whole stretch was still named, Washington Blvd. Been a while since I've been back to that area.

You left out pertinent info: K&H is good, but they're not perfect. How was the starter when you picked it up? If it was working ok, then later started the continuous run, I'm betting you have a bum rebuild, with a bad solenoid.

Have someone start the truck and if the starter keeps going, hit the solenoid with a rubber mallet or with a hunk of wood and see if it stops the starter. If that happens, def starter is bad. K&H should pay for both the tow and the replacement.

 

[jebb]

>If it was working ok, then later started the continuous run, I'm betting you have a bum rebuild, with a bad solenoid.

Worked perfectly. Stopped for gas on the way home, so basically i had two shakedown starts and a post gas start, but then it sat for a bit. This is the first time I've tried to start it since I got home.

> hit the solenoid with a rubber mallet or with a hunk of wood and see if it stops the starter.

Yeah I think this is the next move. Makes sense. They'r closed on weekends, I'll give em a call monday I suppose. I'm on jury duty too this week so this is really shaping up great.

 

[kirvesmies]

@jebb , as @Spike Strip said, rap on the starter gently. back in the mists of history my 6cyl nova had an intermittent issue like that. a quick rap with a 16oz ball peen did the trick. good luck on getting to the bottom of it

 

[KimoTheBJ40]

Great info in here. I’m gonna try the mallet idea tomorrow.

Seems that I am having the same issue in my 79 BJ40. Tried to start it and the starter just kept going till I disconnected the battery. As soon as I reconnect the battery the starter is cranking.

This had happened once before and disconnecting the battery fixed it. Must have just bought myself some time...