Builds fj60 going to EV FJ45

[workingdog]

Okay, starting to think about the roll cage for this beast. First, it's a 45, so a roll cage is already difficult. Second, it's an EV and weight is a big issue. Do I do a traditional inside the cab roll cage? Or do I consider some kind of exo-cage? And - how can I make it as light as possible. I'm never desert racing this thing, but it may go on the highway, and with fiberglass sides and top, it's a death trap in any kind of a roll over. I'm guessing it will run without the top 90% of the time.

 

[05CTD]

Chromoly is the lightest steel but its big $$$.

If it was mine I would do a internal halo style cage. You can tuck the halo pretty tight to the top. Your uprights with right bends can be semi tight to the dash. I am running a halo style cage on my latest FJ40 I just wanted to try it most cages have A, B and C pillars with stringers in between. Another thing I like about the halo style is when I take my top off I have tabs already welded to the cage and I run an aluminum top cut to fit instead of some kind of bikini top or something.

Just some thoughts...

 

[cruisermatt]

Why does it need a complete cage? A properly done roll bar would be a lot better then nothing and, especially if you tie the seat belts to it, and a lot easier then a full cage that you may just smack your head on and die.

 

[workingdog]

that's a good thought.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, so, the advice to just have the flywheel milled down had interesting results. They got it from 36 lbs down to 25lbs, which is progress, but not the 15 lbs I was hoping for. But, they burned through 2 bits on the brake drum lathe and 1 bit on the Bridgeport lathe. So, they pretty much gave up at that point. Then they ground it and balanced it (it was a little out) - and took the ring off $385.

So, now the fun of flying the transmission back onto the motors.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Holy s*** that's expensive. They tried turning it on a brake drum lathe?! lol.

 

[workingdog]

Progress.
Flywheel and clutch and transmission/transfer case are back on - thanks to an old neighbor that came by to help. took it for a test drive and all went well except that he connector for the Hyper 9's that communicates spin rate and direction keeps intermittently failing. $10,000 worth of motors and controllers and a 25 cent connector is holding me up.

Installed the front driveshaft this time, hoping to test 4 wheel drive, but totally didn't realize that the Jeep front axles have a electronic disconnect on the passenger axle shaft. So, no test.

I ordered a block off plate that people use when they go solid axle shaft and when it arrives I'll weld a pin on the inside that will hold the collar in place, essentially disabling the disconnect.

Also, sprayed Rhino liner on the inside of the cab. Boy, is that stuff easy to apply with their gun. One quart covered the inside very nicely. in 60 minutes, I'll apply another coat and that should be good.

So, with the drive train pretty much dialed in, it is now time to put the cab on. This is a HUGE job with lots of complexity. Most parts have to be installed with insulation between the part and the aluminum cab - which I'm hoping the LizardSkin and bed liner will supply, also all have to have stainless hardware. And, Aqualu suggested a steel reinforcing place for the master cylinder/booster. And then there's all the electrical. that has to get mounted. The idea is to transfer as much as possible from the mockup cowl directly to the cab, and then fly the cab into position with brakes, clutch, steering, vacuum, etc. already installed. We'll see if it works.

 

[JLawson]

Big Step! Cannot wait to see the cab on this! Keep it rollin'!

 

[waiting for time]

took it for a test drive and all went well except that he connector for the Hyper 9's that communicates spin rate and direction keeps intermittently failing. $10,000 worth of motors and controllers and a 25 cent connector is holding me up.

This is why it takes a lot of time an $20,50 to install a $20,- connector.

 

[onemanarmy]

So is there a sweet spot for the motors for HP/torque? Will you be monitoring the motor RPMs and shifting? When you press in the clutch, how quickly do the motors slow down?

all cars should have a swivel front driver seat!

 

[workingdog]

@onemanarmy - I have no idea. When I get it operational I'm going to look more into that. The motors tend to keep spinning for quite a while, more then I expected, the regen is not as pronounced as I expected.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, visual progress.

So, setting it down, I only have on real problem. Those of you that have been following, might remember that I had to abandon the Atlas cable shifters because there was no room for the mechanism between the Atlas and the NV4500. So, that forced me to go with the straight level system. This is where it's sitting.

I can trim that inside corner back and I think the tunnel will still cover it. the issue where the twin stick is going to live. It can't go side to side, unless I bend the arms, which I can do, and that might be the best course. It can got a little forward or a little back, but not much, and I don't think it helps anything. The PITA is that it's not out in the floor, or up in the top of the tunnel, but right in the vertical side of the tunnel. The other thing that's interesting is that it's so high relative to the floor - which limits me. I wish there were an electric/linear actuator way to operate these things - but I can't find it. It needs to be an actuator with two positions and which can just apply steady pressure until the transfer case moves to a shiftable position.

So, it seems like I either bend them - a lot - so they are basically coming out the side of the tunnel, or I do some major modifications to the tunnel (which I REALLY don't want to do) and bring out out the top of the tunnel - which would require extending them.

I think I'm clear on the seat, but next step is to cut a hole in for the NV4500 so the tunnel and sit down, and then move into seat bracket fabrication so I can locate final position of the seat and double check where the twin sticks can live.

Edit: Maybe I can make something like this.

 

[mr jits]

Okay, visual progress.





So, setting it down, I only have on real problem. Those of you that have been following, might remember that I had to abandon the Atlas cable shifters because there was no room for the mechanism between the Atlas and the NV4500. So, that forced me to go with the straight level system. This is where it's sitting.







I can trim that inside corner back and I think the tunnel will still cover it. the issue where the twin stick is going to live. It can't go side to side, unless I bend the arms, which I can do, and that might be the best course. It can got a little forward or a little back, but not much, and I don't think it helps anything. The PITA is that it's not out in the floor, or up in the top of the tunnel, but right in the vertical side of the tunnel. The other thing that's interesting is that it's so high relative to the floor - which limits me. I wish there were an electric/linear actuator way to operate these things - but I can't find it. It needs to be an actuator with two positions and which can just apply steady pressure until the transfer case moves to a shiftable position.



So, it seems like I either bend them - a lot - so they are basically coming out the side of the tunnel, or I do some major modifications to the tunnel (which I REALLY don't want to do) and bring out out the top of the tunnel - which would require extending them.

I think I'm clear on the seat, but next step is to cut a hole in for the NV4500 so the tunnel and sit down, and then move into seat bracket fabrication so I can locate final position of the seat and double check where the twin sticks can live.

Edit: Maybe I can make something like this.

There are a number of folks out there that have done air actuators for the atlas. I'll see if I can find a write-up for you.

 

[peesalot]

? do the motors free spin to a higher rpm when clutch is depressed ? assuming you release throttle when depressing clutch. curious to see how the feel of picking back up the gear is, will you have to feather the clutch in to soften the instant torgue of motor or does the throttle control bleed in the increase ? You will have to learn to shift to save stress on components rather than to access power, but full go in a high gear with tcase in low could eat other parts , will be interesting to hear what the "feel" of it is

 

[workingdog]

Well, you never 'have' to shift like you do an ICE. And you're never releasing the clutch into load. However, when you do let the clutch out, the motors do continue to spin, fi they were at high rpm already. And it's a little weird letting the clutch out into a spinning motor, but the motors don't have anywhere near the inertia of an ICE, and since there's no throttle on, they spin right down with no noticeable drag.

 

[mr jits]

In keeping with the electric theme, and since I no longer have a number of bookmarks related to shifters, I'm going to recommend these guys:

easyE® Electric Linear Actuators

Bansbach is the leading provider of Electric Linear Actuators

www.easye.us

They have a number of options for stroke length, force, and can be programmed to different stops (like if you want your tcase in neutral).

 

[workingdog]

@mr jits - cool - thanks, didn't even know that existed. However, I may not have enough space to install them - I'll check them out.

Edit: trying to figure out what will work in the million of options is beyond me.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, seats.

I copied the WFO seat bracket from my 40. And I was copying most of the mechanism. And I just figured out that their seat installation in my 40 does not have the driver's seat centered on the steering wheel, but has it about an inch inboard - as is the passenger seat. Is that something I should replicate? Does that give you shoulder room in these narrow rigs? This is my seat in more or less final location - and centered on the wheel.

 

[workingdog]

Atlas shifters. this is what I have.

And this is what I think I'm going to do.

Should come right out the side of the tunnel nicely. Going to use some 1/2" by 1" plate for the offset if I can find it, and simply cut the shifters where the rod meets the box, and weld the rod back on outside the tunnel. Should be well clear of my leg and not in the way of seat movement. Just lucky. What can I use to close the hole that's going to be in the side of the tunnel? I wonder if I can use the stock shifter boot?

Throttle has no room. I'm going to have to bend the brake pedal a little. I never liked how close the fj40 had the brake and the throttle.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, beginning to have doubts about the electric steering.
1. Does it have enough power to push 37's or 40's around while on the Rubicon? Not sure. when the four wheel drive is working, I'm going to have to test it out.
2. It forced me into a manual steering box - which has a small sector shaft, different number of turns - I'm just suspicious of putting a lot of pressure on it.
3. there's no drop pitman arm available for the manual box (that I can find). Going to have to modify the one I have.

So, should I have gone hydraulic?
1. I have a hydraulic pump off a Volvo (or something) already here - my original concern was does it flow enough for steering AND hydroboost, but I could keep the brakes vacuum for now to eliminate that problem. Someone out there makes a big enough hydraulic pump. I was also concerned about amps consumed. But the EPS consumes a lot of juice too. Not sure how to really evaluate that. Interesting if steering consumes as much juice as motors on something like going down Cadillac.
2. I can get a power steering box (ported for assist) easily - and it will mount right where the existing box mounts.
3. That gives me a much beefier box and access to all kinds of pitman arms
4. and then I can add hydro assist - which I'm thinking I'm going to need. Anyone out there seriously wheeling an EPS system?

Is that the better way to go? I could even make it all work leaving the EPS in, then take the EPS out and sell it when it all works?

At first, the EPS just seemed simpler - I liked the idea (and I still like the idea) of no plumbing. But ... The EPS was far from simple.