Builds fj60 going to EV FJ45

[pjohnson]

@pjohnson - you are right, total brain fart on my end when I was making my options. I've changed the table.

Whew! After my dumb question in another thread about running a rear diff in the front, I thought maybe I was losing it

Option 1 would seem to make it all fit, no?

 

[workingdog]

Yes, option 1 seems the most obvious (which is why it was #1). I'll need an adapter from NV4500 to Toyota case. I know that's available. I'll need an adapter for 4L80 to Atlas. There is an adapter between the 4l80 and the Toyota case, if I'm lucky, I'll be able to reuse it. I'll need to rework the skid plate/trans support structure on the 40 to accommodate the changed drop including moving the torque bar mount. I'm hoping the existing drive lines will work. But, it should all work. Famous last words. A friend came over and we got the drive lines off, the skid plate/support structure down. Now, I just to remove the shifter linkage and unbolt the transfer case.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, whilst I ponder my transfer case dilemma (I'm waiting for help to shift the Toyota box out). I'm looking at the axle location in the EV45. So, one thing I didn't expect was so little reference points to work from. These pictures show the axles just where I set them, seemed like more or less where they were intended to go. Wheel base is about 120" to 123". The front frame cross member is more or less where the bib and radiator sit. The Horns are longer than on my 40, and my 40's are long. So, there's extra there.

Any input about reasons to push the either axle in either direction is welcome (other than side to side). Looking at the pictures, the front could go forward.

Also, can anyone educate me on mating an NV4500 to a toyota transfer case and will the adapter that was on the 4l80 connecting the toyota transfer case of any use? Google search shows many, many different things I can't make sense of.

 

[workingdog]

The coupler arrived from EV Europe and it is a serious piece of aluminum. Much more serious than what I had planned to do. their picture on their website does not do it justice. the coupler is very similar to what I already had, but they also include spacer/bushings to locate the couple on the shafts.

 

[workingdog]

I'm also starting to take measurements of the frame and get things located on it. It looks like there will be room between the flatbed and the rear drive shaft for the battery box to sit. but I'm still far from mocking up mounts. I was surprised to find that the frame is big enough for a 6' bed. There's quite a bit of overhang past the rear axle. I'm seriously considering cutting 12 to 16" off the back to end up with a 5' flat bed.

 

[workingdog]

While I agonize over axles and axle with the transfer cases and breaking systems. I thought I’d take advantage of the sun and roll the EV drivetrain outside and use the gantry to mate the two hyper nines together with the just arrived aluminum coupler. There was no drawing or instructions so it took me a minute to figure out I had to remove the aluminum plate on one end and they had only sent bolts for one side (because they were really long).

They had spacers to keep the shaft coupler from sliding back. But it didn't sit the same on both sides. Not sure if that's an issue or not. Can't see how it would be.

Bellhousing adapters should show up next week, so that will allow me to attach the NV4500 - then I'll have something really heavy .

Next is to break the gantry down and reassemble inside the garage in its shorter version so I can start setting the drivetrain in the frame and start figuring out mounts and support structure

 

[workingdog]

Okay, I'm appealing for help here.

I've got a few options on brakes. I'm going to run a Volvo electric power steering pump to make the saginaw box work. The Volvo pump supposedly puts out 1700 psi at 4.4 gpm (found that on a build post somewhere, could not find anything official).

1. buy vanco hydroboost set up and plumb to volvo pump. This is pretty simple system. I just can't find anyone that's done this using the Volvo. lots of guys just doing steering. So, I'm worried I'll get steering loss when braking or braking loss when steering.

2. Use one of the hot rod vacuum set ups where the unit generates a vacuum for a traditional vacuum driven master.

3. Use the Wildwood double master cylinder race setup. I called Wildwood to check on it, and they guy immediately said don't use it if I'm not racing. Very touchy to set up, people have problems with them, they are sensitive. He suggested just using a regular single master cylinder system - which I'm not going to use. I want power.

Thoughts? experience?

 

[Toyoland66]

No idea how hard it would be to swap, and I think they’re expensive, but the newer Toyota’s are using an electric booster. May be worth looking into.

 

[waiting for time]

You can add a separate 12 volt system using a regular alternator from a Diesel engine with a vacuum pump on the back.
Combined with a vacuum tank this would keep things simple.
I don’t know if you can add a belt to the front of the motors.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, to complicated the situation a little more. I could not go with saginaw steering box and Volvo hydraulic pump. I could install an EPAS system for steering. If I went with self generating vacuum booster for the brakes, then I'd have no hydraulics at all - which is kind of appealing. I read someplace that EPAS steering actually uses less power than hydraulic pump (even though the EPAS units uses a lot of amps in max conditions, it only uses power when it needs it, unlike hydraulic pump which is constantly running) and the vacuum pump draws very little.

 

[Gangrene]

Are you able to use any of the retentive braking from the motors? If so you would need very little in the area of brake assist, and my just get away with manual hydraulic brakes.

 

[workingdog]

There is an option in the system to do regen - but I have no idea how effective it is in this system and what's required to make it work.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, shifted from SOA on the fj40 back to the EV45. I'm looking at ride height. I got out the fenders to check tire clearance. Apparently they haven't sold a lot of these high adn wide fenders and he said the fitment requires 'finesse'. I think it's just a little sketchy.

Here's the fender.

Here's it with the filler piece, which won't fit right no matter what you do. They say put a 3/8" spacer in their,
which you can see in their pictures which I've included. But, I don't like it.

Not pretty.

But, I'll figure something out. Also, there are only two bolts down low where it meets the cowl and then it attaches to the bib,
but no support otherwise.
I'm clearly going to have to cut the hell out of the inner fender well for the coilover mount. And, when that all gets installed I tie the fender to the frame somehow.
But, it's enough now to look at tire clearance.

 

[workingdog]

Ride height. As it sits now, 22" at the lowest point of the frame (not sure how much the transfer case will hang down). About 11" at the fender. About 7" front axle to frame. more than that for rear axle to frame. Standard Jeep body spacers - about 1" (Aqualu sent 2 solid aluminum ones and 2 very old fashioned ones). I'm thinking I'm pretty close.

 

[workingdog]

Here are pics from the fender and coilover mount from the front and side. You can just make out the outline I traced on the coil over mount on far fender skirt. So, they fit nicely. I could shove them up an inch or two if I really wanted. Should I?

Anyway. A little over 23.5" from center of bolt to top of axle housing. And about 6" to 6.5" from axle to frame (up travel) if the differential stays out of the way. So, looking at the king shock listing here

King Shocks

www.kingshocks.com

that looks like 2.0" diameter (can't see a reason to go bigger than that) and 10" travel. We'd have to push the top of the coil mount up 2.5" to fit the 2x12" in there. Which we could do. not sure it's worth it.

I'm guessing there will be a cross bar from top of coil over bracket to top on the other side.

 

[workingdog]

Track width, track width, track width.

These are fj60 axles currently sitting under it with 1" spacers. You can see in the previous post that there's plenty of room in front the frame is only 29". But in the rear it's 42" wide and there isn't any room.

There's no way I'm fitting coil overs in there. If I use these axles I'm going coils with separate shocks.

fj60 rear axle is 58.3, plus the spacers gets me to 60.3
Going to FJ80 width is 63.5 - so an inch and a half more on each side. Not enough
If I went to 65.5" (which is about the max I am considering) that would get me 2.5 inches on each side, still not enough for even 2" coil overs (which I think are 3.5" wide with the coil?).
So, I'm not exactly sure what to do. I didn't realize the fj45 frame just got wider and wider and wider as it went back.
I'm already cutting a foot off the back. Do I go to behind the cab, cut the frame and take it back to parallel? That sounds crazy. But then, the train has already pulled through crazy and it heading to just plain nuts.
Or is it as simple as putting the coilovers on the inside of the frame and on the back of the axle???? I'm not going to get a lot of travel in the rear anyway. The bed is going to limit that.
Maybe separate coil and shock is the way to go to get max travel?
I think my head is going to explode.
Send Tylenol and CBD.

 

[Tank5]

I had to deal with a similar issue building my 45. I used a 80 series suspension set up in the rear which puts the coils and shock mounts inside the frame. I also ended up cutting a wedge out of the frame on both sides just behind the rear axle so I could bend the back half in to run it strait back.

I also used 80 series axles but they were narrowed to 60 series width. The wheels on my build have 4.5 back spacing, no spaces and look they will clear ok.

You can see what I did starting on page 4 post #63 of my build.

Builds - "The Milk Truck" FJ45 Preservation Sorta

I have been considering welding the front of the frame along the seem for the inner and outer frame. Several of the rivets have been cut or removed on the front half and I think it is needed to maintain strength. I have also been thinking of welding the front crossmember at the frame on the...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[workingdog]

Holy cow, that looks like it was nuts. Nice to know I'm not the only crazy one. If I go forward to right after the cab, where the frame is 37" wide, I should be able to do a similar notch and bring the frame into parallel. I'll already have the back off (to shorten it), so it all should work. You happy with the FJ60 width? Do you wish you'd gone wider?

 

[workingdog]

here's where I'm guessing the flat bed will sit. 17.5" to 18" from top of axle to bottom of bed. So, not a lot of room to package shocks or coilovers - at least vertically. So, I'm going to have to get creative. I hate the idea of having coilovers coming through the flat bed. Maybe one of those crazy systems where the shock is mounted horizontally and there's a large lever arm connected to the axle translating vertical motion into horizontal motion - just kidding. Edit: Oops - another brain fart, totally failed to think about up-travel and tires. That bed is going to have to do up (4"?), or it's going to have to have wheel wells. It's going to be quite high. Going to have to have a step so that old me can get in the back.

 

[Tank5]

Holy cow, that looks like it was nuts. Nice to know I'm not the only crazy one. If I go forward to right after the cab, where the frame is 37" wide, I should be able to do a similar notch and bring the frame into parallel. I'll already have the back off (to shorten it), so it all should work. You happy with the FJ60 width? Do you wish you'd gone wider?

Yes if you cut just behind the cab it would do the same thing but you would have to relocate all of the bed mounts as they would change.

I am still happy with the 60 width axles. Aesthetically I was trying to keep the outward appearance of my build close to stock looking. If the axles were wider I would have to widen my front fenders and add fender flares to the rear. I didn’t want to do that.

80 series axle width would have made a few things a little easier on my build. The 60 width with the 80 suspension in the front is tight.