Builds fj60 going to EV FJ45

[ThreeEyedBandit]

Once aligned you can then drill a couple of holes in the flanges and insert dowels, this stops it from shifting and means it’s perfectly aligned if you ever need to dismantle it.

If you don’t have it rigidly mounted and well aligned you will end up with significant coupling wear regardless of which style you use. It will also induce vibration and put extra load on the motor bearings leading to increased heat and wear. The tolerance for alignment becomes tighter as speed increases, not sure what your planned speed range was but even at 2000rpm I’d want to see no more than 0.05mm misalignment.

One other nice thing with these motors is they give you the perfect register to locate from and keep the shaft concentric. I concour that mounting each motor to the frame and keeping everything aligned is basically a disaster once you start to put a load on them.

 

[ThreeEyedBandit]

I really appreciate your contributing your expertise. The couple of the kind you talking about that I can find online were low horsepower low rpm. Are use the images you provided to try to find something more in the range.

I am having a flange made for one side, we’re gonna use the existing flange on the other side, and a set of four aluminum rods to span between the two flanges to originally lock the two motors together.

I really think you should reconsider using aluminum rods and the frame to keep everything aligned. Once you throw a load on each of them they are going to twist apart from each other and the misalignment is going to grow greatly.

Finding the coupler shouldn't be that hard, and machining the coupler like you linked would be the best and simplest way to accomplish connecting them together.

 

[ThreeEyedBandit]

Looking at this, they are using a Lovejoy type coupling.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, Okay, Okay. That thing is $1,800 shipped. to the US. But I guess it's worth it if it keeps the motors from tearing each other up. It's also on backorder, so I'll call them Monday and see where they are at with availability. I'm a ways off from actually needing it, so I have some time.

 

[workingdog]

Also, the frame wasn't to align the motors, I knew it could never do that. It's to give me a way to move the motors together into and out of the car and a way to mount all the other stuff that goes with the motors (controllers, contactors) into one moveable unit. And give me a surface to mount ABS panels to so I can seal the thing up - more or less. But the packaging is turning out to be a challenge.

 

[serenity]

Sorry to be a pain, we just wanna see you have years of trouble free motoring instead of chasing issues. I’ve spent many hours in power stations and refineries chasing overheating bearings and vibration issues due to poor alignment and balance, or bad machining.

I do have concern with those lovejoy type couplings seeing wear in the bush over time, causing significant backlash. However since you are connecting 2 motors together that are assisting each other it may not see the same kind of wear as from a motor to a slurry pump for instance. This is where I’ve seen this type of coupling primarily used and it does wear rapidly.

While we are on the topic, what is the plan to connect the motor to the gearbox/transfer? Make a flywheel and clutch plate?

 

[workingdog]

I appreciate all the input as I know nothing about turning shafts. I'm going to call EV Europe tomorrow and see how far out they are. And, this is not an industrial machine. If this thing sees 10,000 miles in it's life time, that would be remarkable. Compared to industrial equipment, this thing will see virtually no real demand on it. however, the one thing it will see that an industrial machine probably won't is a lot of resistance to getting moving requiring max torque - but not that often.

CAN EV makes a Hyper 9 to small block bellhousing adapter with hub that is supposed to allow me to bolt my flywheel right up and then the clutch and NV4500. We'll see. It seems like everyone is weeks to months out on actually getting parts built. They also make a plate that bolts to the far end of the second motor that I can attach to the forward most mount.

 

[workingdog]

So, just spent $1,900 on the parts from EVEurope - after a long list of financial ouches, I'm not sure why I felt this one more.

 

[DangerNoodle]

So, just spent $1,900 on the parts from EVEurope - after a long list of financial ouches, I'm not sure why I felt this one more.

Buy once, cry once. Better than grenading a motor or two, then having to get the mount, and new motors.

 

[workingdog]

The Aqualu parts arrived! Here they are Mudracks (I am not worthy. I am not worthy)

First thing I noticed is that they did not put the power steering changes to the front of the frame, so that's a disappointment. There's at least a days work fabricating to get that done. But the frame is a beautiful. nice to have something so clean to work with. Tomorrow, we'll work on getting it into the garage and unpacked.

First thing I looked at was where the battery box will sit. Still not 100% sure my original idea will work.

the transmission/transfer case will be ready tomorrow as well. But the adapter to connect the Hyper 9 to the transmission are not here yet.

So, diving into 4 link layout and steering and getting the frame standing on it's new 40" shoes.

 

[workingdog]

So, I woke up last night at 3am and had an epiphany.

We've got the 40 that is the Avatar for my signature. It's workable but on fj60 axles which are it's weak link. I blew up one on my last run on the Rubicon. Turns out I have an opportunity for my son and I to spend a lot of time at Rubicon Springs this summer helping out. So, lots and trips in and out from Tahoma probably dragging our military trailer with equipment and supplies. And, right now, that is the rig I have to get us in and out. I really, really hate being broke down on the Rubicon. So, I was thinking about new axles for the fj40, and not liking the idea of what it would cost to buy a set and not really having the cycles or skills to build a set.

Then, I remembered, I have the axles sitting outside intended for the EV45. A heavily built Dana 60 in front with Reed knuckles and high steer and a shaved 14 bolt for the back. Realistically, they are way more than the EV 45 needs, but I have them.

However, at 3am last night, I realized that what I really should do is put the Dana 60 and the 14 bolt, sitting on brand new 40" KM3s, under the fj40 (doing a spring over in the process) and use the fj60 axles (ARB lockers, decent BFG 37's) for the EV 45.

I'd love to get the EV 45 on the trail, but realistically, I think it will take a year for me to sort it out to the point that I have enough trust in it to take it anyplace where the Dana 60 and 14 would be needed. And, because of the limited range, it's not like I'm going to drive it to Baja and back. Between now and then, the 60 axles and the 37s would be more than adequate.

I had not intended to dive into fj40 and create a new project for me. It's a significant detour. SOA and new axles. But, it's not that horrible. It's nut that I'd have all 3 bays of my garage full of cars getting torn apart.

 

[workingdog]

More progress photos.

The frame and cab in its final home for the next long while.

engines and controller compartment waiting for test fit and more wiring

The trans and transfer case, flywheel and clutch all arrived.

and, my son's project which I can't get off the lift

And the fj40 is in the far bay, but didn't get a picture. I'm about to rip the axles out.

 

[workingdog]

Okay, more updates. Here's the Aqualu top. Nicely built, No flimsy drip rail, nice hefty aluminum all the way around. Only two bolt points on either side of the windshield. Integrated door jamb or whatever you call it.

The only thing I saw was this. Measure once, drill twice. The thing was so 'fresh' that there were still aluminum shavings between the 'side' and the cab.

 

[workingdog]

Here's the frame with the cab levitating in the air above it. (there is no need to explain to me how bad an idea it is to hang it from the trusses).

This is about 22" off the ground at the lowest point. I'm assuming that's too high.

 

[workingdog]

The fj60 axles are out of the fj40 - I hate wrestling axles alone. I've cleaned the front and I'm in the process of cleaning the rear. Lots and lots of grinding. Used the new Miller 625 plasma cutter to cut the parts off. That thing is amazing. We've had the cheap Harbor Freight Chinesium model and it's worked. but this is another world. 1/4" plate like it was cut by a band saw. It's spendy, but it's going save us money and time. It cut all the fittings off the two axles with it - where I could get at them.

 

[workingdog]

So, I got the rear fj60 axle cleaned up (enough), rolled the front axle under the frame and was rolling the rear axle when I realized I had totally failed to take into account differential position. This is my lack of experience biting me in the ass. I had just assumed since they were both in Toyotas, they were the same (deep down I knew they were not, but I'd repressed that knowledge). The FJ40 had/has a built Toyota 4:1 box and the axles were all stock drops. The fj60 that had the Dana 60 and the 14 bolt had an Atlas and was rear drop and passenger front drop.

I was planning on putting the Atlas in the EV45. So, putting the yota axles in the EV45 won't work. And putting the dana16 and 14 bolt under the 40 won't work. Oops.
I could swap transfer cases too, put the Toyota case in the EV45 and the Atlas in the 40. The Toyota case is a good case, but it makes a lot of effing noise. And, in an electric car, it will be pretty much all you hear.

So, back to the drawing board. I hate buying a new case, but I know I'll hate the Toyota case if it's in there. Right now, the 40 is so loud, the case is just part of the general cacophony. And maybe the EV45 will be just as loud, it's not like that's major sound deadening in the thing (yet).

And, the Atlas would be great in the fj40. I'll just have to had the trans guy put the input shaft back in he just took out and then do that major surgery. I have no idea how much work that will be. For sure, I'll need the lift to get all the skid plates off., and I don't know when the lift will be available.

So, this is one of those moments when you realize just how crazy you really are.

Maybe, the thing to do, is just build the EV45 for now with no transfer case. Just run it rear wheel drive off the NV4500. I mean, it's going to be a long, long time before the thing is ready to wheel. Or, put the Toyota case in it (and again, new input shaft to mate to the 4500 - and maybe an adapter) and build it like, and when I'm done I can deal with it, if it's a problem. Anyway, it's whiskey time.
Sigh

 

[workingdog]

So, to help me think, I made this table of options. Any help would be appreciated, I really don't have a lot of experience mixing and matching axles and transfer cases.

Option 1		fj40	EV45
	transmission	4l80	NV4500
	transfercase	Existing Atlas	Existing toyota transfer case	This is essentially a swap, not even sure the Atlas' passenger drop will work.
	front axle	dana 60, driver drop	fj60, passenger drop
	rear axle	14 bolt, center drop	fj60, passenger drop
Option 2		fj40	EV45
	transmission	4l80	NV4500
	transfercase	Existing Atlas	New, passenger drop Atlas, works for the front, but what about the rear?
	front axle	dana 60, driver drop	fj60, passenger drop
	rear axle	14 bolt, center drop	I don't think I can use the FJ60 rear for this, so a new Dana 60 or Dana 44, center drop
Option 3		fj40	EV45
	transmission	4l80	NV4500
	transfercase	Existing toyota transfer case	Orion case	And I have a spare Atlas? This makes no sense.
	front axle	dana 60, rebuilt for passenger drop	fj60, passenger drop
	rear axle	14 bolt, rebuilt for passenger drop	fj60, passenger drop

 

[waiting for time]

I am ready for option 4 now after going through your posts and it is 7:30 am now.
Just give it a few day’s to settle and you will know what to do, probably option 5 will come up.

 

[pjohnson]

I apologize, I must have missed something as I've been following along, but aren't the FJ60 axles passenger drop?
What did I miss?

 

[workingdog]

@pjohnson - you are right, total brain fart on my end when I was making my options. I've changed the table.