FJ60 Design Flaws, practical solutions? (1 Viewer)

[bigpk]

Im looking for better driveability on the freeway, not having to drive the local mountain passes at 40MPH and avoiding reliabilty issues surrounding the crap emissions system.[/QUOTE]

Then buy another god damn truck!
Jesus!
I have a fj60 and a new fj cruiser. I am only driving the cruiser until my 60 is built! The 60 is my baby! If you treat yours as bad as you talk about it, its no wonder its slow as s h i t!

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Umm yeah, put both rigs next to each other and go wheeling. The 80 is vastly superior in every way. More power, more comfort, factory Lockers etc. the 60 has more character and is more utlitarian and that has its own appeal but for drive it off the lot capabilites the 60 doesnt hold a candle to the 80.

The 80 is a better truck than a 60, but not in every way. It is much more capable in stock form due to the highly complient suspension, better articulation and available lockers. It's also 10 or more years newer in design, during a very important period in vehicle evolution. Not really fair to compare it to an FJ60, which is really just an evolution of the original FJ40 design from the 1950s. It's not like they were sold side by side, right?

Realize that too, a 60 (or an 80 for that matter) is meant to be serviced, with things like axle seals, knuckle bearings, wheel bearings etc all repacked/replaced on a regular basis. I personally think the closed knuckle design is simple, durable, and even desirable. Those axle seals that worry you could be replaced in a few hours-totally not a big deal, and simply a normal service item.

Reading your posts, you might be happier with a Tahoe and replace it every 5 years or so. That way the real design flaws and shortcomings will never become evident to you.

 

[Exiled]

The 60 series Land Cruiser was on the drawing boards by 1978 and was launched world-wide in 10/80. The series -which would eventually reach over 2,500 variations- went on to become one of Toyota's most successful vehicles, remaining in limited production in some countries until the 1992 model year and built in the millions. Hundreds of thousands are still in use today in places like Africa, Southeast Asia and South America, with millions of kilometers on the clock and 20+ years of Third World abuse.

The US version, hobbled by emmission restrictions, soldiered on with the venerable carburated 2F and a 4-speed throughout availability, but the H55F 5-speed and the fuel-injected 3FE were introduced in other markets in 10/84.

And in many countries, the 60 series came equipped with the 2H naturally aspirated diesel, which is regarded as one of the best diesel engines of its time.

I agree with Cruiserdrew that a stock 80 performs better than a stock 60. It should, it was the vehicle Toyota finally replaced the 60 with and with so successful a vehicle, the 80 *needed* to be a significant improvement.

I mean absolutely no offense with this, but it sounds like you're very disappointed with your 60. You're probably better off with something else.

 

[Tofudebeest]

This is very typical. People fail to understand the temporal element when assessing decisions, attitudes and customs of years past. Chukardog, you are looking at a 60 with 2007 eyes. Had you owned a 60 back in the 80's the criticisms you make today about it would never have entered your mind. Please look at your list of 60 series "flaws", do some research and point out what systems and components available back then were superior. You know, Toyota could have put components from a Mack truck in our wagons, but would that have made any sense? No, of course not. In damn near EVERY regard, for its day, the J6 was overbuilt, and intentionally so. EVEN TODAY, I defy you to make a list of STOCK vehicles with a life expectancy and general hardiness even close to a J6. Go ahead, give it a try.

I'll give you one freebie: There were many, many vehicles of that era with greatly superior body rust-proofing (and many far worse--an International Scout, for example). They attempted to improve the situation with better seam sealant in '87. By the time the 80 came out, they had fixed this issue.

 

[ducatiman81211]

There's something wrong-very very wrong; I live at 9318ft above sea level, drive these mountain passes at 40-75 mph, and get descent gas mileage. Sure I want my truck to breathe better, so I am working on it...

Tune it up, appreciate it for what it is OR SELL IT. I know that anytime I ever sold a rig, it was only a matter of days before sellers remorse got the best of me, and I missed the rig.

I think the overwhelming opinion of the thread here says it all.

Buy a Tahoe, see if you're happy!

 

[roundrocktom]

Long live the FJ60!

Tech Tip... There is a vacuum diaphram to open the secondary on the carb. Uh they do rip about 200,000
miles. Amazing the performance increase when everything works as intended.

Tom

 

[Micah]

So I have always liked my 62 since I got it. And after reading this thread I like it even more. Thank you Toyota for making such a reliable truck that will last forever.

 

[hks3sgte]

so an 80 without lockers and a 3Fe is that much better than a 60 without cable lockers and a 3Fe??

Good point. Is a 1991 FJ80 better than its predecessor?

 

[chukardog]

I have a fj60 and a new fj cruiser. I am only driving the cruiser until my 60 is built! The 60 is my baby! If you treat yours as bad as you talk about it, its no wonder its slow as s h i t!

What are you even talking about? take your 3 posts and do search, I have thousands invested into the rig in just 6 months. Im in it for the long haul. Im trying to assess what I can do to improve both performance and predict what might Fuc* me on the trail miles from civilzation.

The 60 is not my daily driver or even my 2nd vehicle, its merely a project/toy. My DD is an 06 super duty. I bought the 60 because I wanted a smaller rig for some of the tight trails that lead to my bird hunting spots. The nearest one being a 3 hour drive on the highway and over a mountain pass and then another hour off road.
I can afford any rig I want but I chose the 60 for its classic looks, reputation and they are realtively rare now a days. Looking back an 80 was probably a better choice but im committed and I want to make this rig work for me.

Some of my assumptions were wrong (birfs) but I think I'm being pretty objective when it comes to the 60's lack of highway driveability. This forum is loaded with people lamenting the same issue.
"Looking at the 60 with 2007 eyes" is logical since the year is 2007 not 1987. The 60 was under powered for road use then and it still is. Granted I could be somewhat baised by the milage on my current 2F (197K).
What are the 2007 solutions to my perceived" performace issues? 2F rebuild? Vortec Swap, Diesel swap? They all have their merits and their downsides. Id like to stay with the 2F for reliability and eliminate the emissions junk, but I have yet to see a "roadmap" for de-smoging. This leaves me a little leary about doing it. It seems if done right it would greatly simplify things under the hood and eliminate tons of headaches. Done wrong it sounds like a nightmare.

 

[Dazza]

quote: "I can afford any rig I want"

this seems to be the problem to me. You're just spoiled.

I drive new rigs at work all the time. They all feel like a new car, even the work trucks. (one a 4 ton dump truck)

Then I get back in my slow turd of a 60 and daily drive it everywhere, appreciating the way it feels like a machine.(mine is probably the slowest one in Washington state, barely taking Stevens pass in 2nd gear)

Seems like the only thing you need to change is your mindset.

Don't think of it as a slow car.

Think of it as a fast tractor.

Compared to a tractor my landcrusher is cushy, fast, runs clean, has suspension, a roof, windows, and can shift on the fly!

 

[phoenixrider]

My 60 is perfect....for me

2k for the vehicle
300 for front axle rebuild and brakes
1500 for lift
5k for HiPo engine rebuild (should last ~250k miles)

No montly payments
Insurance is dirt
Year registration is dirt
Don't really give a hoot about potential body damage on the trail (chicks dig body damage)
Plenty of room to pack up the family and camping gear

Works for me at least...

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Chukardog--Here you go:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=182901

This might address your wish list, at least partially.

 

[60wag]

Don't think of it as a slow car.

Think of it as a fast tractor.

QUOTE]

That should be a sig line!

As for Toyota spec'ing a V8 as original equipment.... my understanding is that our protectionist laws prohibited trucks to be imported with with V8 engines to protect our fragile and vastly overrated domestic truck market. That's why we got the V6 T100 from Toyota. When the import laws were changed, the V8 Tundra, 100 series and the Titan weren't far behind.

 

[CaliCruiser]

I see what you are saying about the slow speed of the cruiser but dsagree that is underpowered. Like Andy said, it has a lot of torque and will idle on extreme angles at 500 rpms. The 2f is a great engine and is what I have in my cruiser, mainly because I can't afford what is a more desirable engine (to me) right now. Take for example the increasingly popular Vortec swap. It is a lighter engine, more powerful, and returns better gas mileage but also carries a hefty price tag to complete the swap. From reading your posts it sounds like you have the cash so it seems like a reasonable option.

Dylan

 

[ducatiman81211]

Why do we even try? It's obvious what the problem is...

 

[83bj60]

OK I have not read all the posts, but this looks like fun, let's play, here's my biased opinion

1. Inefficient Drivetrain: Because Toyota designs vehicles for the market they sell the vehicle in. America=Gas Guzzlers, No diesel, No 5 speed. Of course we got all that in Canada, until Toyota Canada was taken over by Big Brother Kalifornia in 1989. We are litterally under the control of Toyota Kalifornia now.
2. Emissions system: Sheer economy and lack of design, 'Good Enough for the 'Muriken Market' (No one else uses gas engines on these vehicles)
3. Birfields: They are fine under normal off-road driving conditions. They break when wheeled hard. It's a LandCruiser, not a Mountain Goat That being said, I agree that a stronger birf should have been installed simply because of all the excess weight people tend to carry when wheeling (beer? )
4. Inner Axle Seals. Yes, I think you're off base here. They will eventually leak... after 20 years of normal use... OK, I agree it's a pain to replace them...
5. Pressed in Oil gallery plug: I wasn't awre of that issue. I put it down to the 'Good Enough for America' marketing concept

But seriously, guys, what about RUST? I know that since the 80s were introduced the manufacturing processes have improved dramatically... But the 60 was very, very prone to rust (surface rust in as little as 4-5 years in the northeast, spotwelded wheelwells with a seem begging to blow from corrosion, inside C-Channel a sand, moisture and rust trap... (great idea, that metal sandwich.... NOT!)...

 

[83bj60]

And in many countries, the 60 series came equipped with the 2H naturally aspirated diesel, which is regarded as one of the best diesel engines of its time.

Actually, the 3B and the 13B-T were regarded as the best diesels fo their time. The 2H wasn't as durable. 3Bs can run for 600,000km with NO SERVICE except oil and filter change... I know because the Old Faithful still runs and is not an oil guzzler. Never had anything done to the engine, apart from replacing the glow plugs twice...

 

[Cruiserdrew]

OK I have not read all the posts, but this looks like fun, let's play, here's my biased opinion



But seriously, guys, what about RUST? I know that since the 80s were introduced the manufacturing processes have improved dramatically... But the 60 was very, very prone to rust (surface rust in as little as 4-5 years in the northeast, spotwelded wheelwells with a seem begging to blow from corrosion, inside C-Channel a sand, moisture and rust trap... (great idea, that metal sandwich.... NOT!)...

What is this thing "rust"?

 

[Marc311]

Boy - you would have thought chukardog called your mothers a bunch of whores!

While I don't necessarilly agree with his initial points, his post did not warrant some of these nasty responses. Maybe he should have phrased it as "suggested improvements" rather than design flaws - but I see nothing wrong with his first post other than disagreeing with a couple items. But we can disagree and not be d**ks about it. He even conceded he may have been wrong about the birfields. Why is everyone jumping in his S***. Just state why you disagree or add to his list.

I think the oil plug qualifies as a design flaw. Clearly there are rust issues with these vehicles (I didn't know they improved the seam sealing in 87 - something I learned because of this thread). And, as somebody posted, EFI was being put into 60s in other parts of the world.

That's not bashing 60s - it is just stating some things that could have been improved. Maybe Toyota had valid reasons for doing what they did - maybe it was all for the bottom line. Who knows, who cares. But I would love to hear what people think could have been improved back then.

End of rant, move along.

 

[hks3sgte]

3B was not offered in most countries. That is why the 2H(12H-T) are considered the best ever. Not saying the 3B is worse.