so an 80 without lockers and a 3Fe is that much better than a 60 without cable lockers and a 3Fe??
FJ60 Design Flaws, practical solutions? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter chukardog
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- #22
Try merging on to I-5 in moderate traffic or making a left hand turn across traffic. Moped like accleration.
Green tea is for pussy liberals that drive subaru wagons with faded John Kerry stickers on the bumper
My 60 will do 75-80 no problem as long as the ground is flat and you have 15 minutes for the squirrels to get the excercise wheel going.
Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
Dana 44 would be a step backwards in stoutness.
Dangerously underpowered? How so?
What motor would you have had Toyota install in '87?
What motor would you have had them install that would survive 2-3 hundred thousand miles of third world abuse?
They didn't have a better engine to install. As soon as they did... they did.
Toyota had EFI in 87. But not in everything and not for long. They had an excellent tried and true carburation system. Couldn't switch their entire line of vehicles over to EFI at the same time. Not to even get into whether or not that would have been a good thing considering where the majority of Land Cruisers of that era were being sold.
The emissions control systems was not impressive. Thank the US federal government for that. Show me any other carburated system of similar vntage that is any better.
I'm not sure what you are expecting from this vehicle. Consider the technology available at the time. Consider the age of the basic design. Consider the economics as well and the markets where most of them were sold.
The '80 is a superior rig. So what though? They would not have brought it out if it was a step backwards.
What sort of solutions are you looking for? We can't go back to the '70s and help Toyota design the rig differently. And most of us here spend lots of time addressing any shortcomings that we think we have found for the way we use the rigs now. So I'm not sure your point beyond expressing dissatisfaction with the fact that the '60 series is not perfect. Heck, we all know that already.
Mark...
Dangerously underpowered? How so?
What motor would you have had Toyota install in '87?
What motor would you have had them install that would survive 2-3 hundred thousand miles of third world abuse?
They didn't have a better engine to install. As soon as they did... they did.
Toyota had EFI in 87. But not in everything and not for long. They had an excellent tried and true carburation system. Couldn't switch their entire line of vehicles over to EFI at the same time. Not to even get into whether or not that would have been a good thing considering where the majority of Land Cruisers of that era were being sold.
The emissions control systems was not impressive. Thank the US federal government for that. Show me any other carburated system of similar vntage that is any better.
I'm not sure what you are expecting from this vehicle. Consider the technology available at the time. Consider the age of the basic design. Consider the economics as well and the markets where most of them were sold.
The '80 is a superior rig. So what though? They would not have brought it out if it was a step backwards.
What sort of solutions are you looking for? We can't go back to the '70s and help Toyota design the rig differently. And most of us here spend lots of time addressing any shortcomings that we think we have found for the way we use the rigs now. So I'm not sure your point beyond expressing dissatisfaction with the fact that the '60 series is not perfect. Heck, we all know that already.
Mark...
OK I laughed at that one.....
Before you bash subaru to hard, watch a couple rally races.
I will avoid the politics..........;p
Didn't your mom teach you about sticks and hornet nests?
You mean with the HGs that fail with almost no warning?
With the weak R&P in the front that are starting to fail more and more?
Bad locker design the seizes rear axle shafts lodging them in the housings?
With birfs that start to click at 200k from the full time 4wd?
The thin walled lower rear links that wont take a beating like a leaf spring will?
The extra thousand pounds of weight for those times you want to get really stuck?
Both are great rigs but the 80 has more downfalls than a 60 does. Agreed they have nicer rides but will take more effort to keep them that way.
The 2f has more grunt down low than most V8s that i've driven....Lack of power?....not for me.
Try merging on to I-5 in moderate traffic or making a left hand turn across traffic. Moped like accleration.
Green tea is for pussy liberals that drive subaru wagons with faded John Kerry stickers on the bumper
My 60 will do 75-80 no problem as long as the ground is flat and you have 15 minutes for the squirrels to get the excercise wheel going.
I merge onto I-5, 280, 101, 80 etc.. all the time in my 60, in all kinds of conditions. It's no speed demon, but I'm not holding my breath as I do it either. If your having that much trouble than I think you really should take D'animals advice and start tuning your rig.
BTW, I hate green tea and never voted for Kerry... I drive an old fj60, shoot bird, drink beer and talk sh!t with the best of 'em, and while I consider my self a liberal I'm sure as hell no pussy so watcher g'damn mouth!
The smog system was forced upon manufacturers before they had time to build new engines. In countries where there were no smog requirements,the 3F works superb.
In its class means heavy duty 4wd. Its only real competition in the world are the Nissan Patrol and the Landrover Defender.
IMO ,the Ford Bronco and F100 didnt quite make that grade,having twice the downtime as a Landcruiser in the 1980s.
BTW, how's your restoration going?
A quick observation on birfs on the cruiser. Of all the 4x4's we have here, Nissans, Mitzubishis, Jeeps, G-wagens, Landrovers ect. Ect. The Cruiser have by far the narrowest turningcircle. And IMO that is a major reason for broken birfs. I have seen birfs break, but only when people where stuck and turned from stop to stop under full power.
I might be wrong, but I see that as a, at least, contributing factor.
I might be wrong, but I see that as a, at least, contributing factor.
- Thread starter
- #32
Mark and Mace I will defer to your superior knowlege on the Birfs VS D44's.
Im looking for better driveability on the freeway, not having to drive the local mountain passes at 40MPH and avoiding reliabilty issues surrounding the crap emissions system.
A small block V8
A small block V8
Agreed, I should'nt blame toyota for the stupid emissions laws and all the crap that is needed to make them US compliant.
Im looking for better driveability on the freeway, not having to drive the local mountain passes at 40MPH and avoiding reliabilty issues surrounding the crap emissions system.
Turbo Diesel.
Im looking for better driveability on the freeway, not having to drive the local mountain passes at 40MPH and avoiding reliabilty issues surrounding the crap emissions system
If that is the best your cruiser can do, then your 60 has issues. Sorry not being a @#$ but dam my 62 that weighs more and with a auto and with a 4.0 will do MUCH better than that.
If that is the best your cruiser can do, then your 60 has issues. Sorry not being a @#$ but dam my 62 that weighs more and with a auto and with a 4.0 will do MUCH better than that.
And yes the fist chance I got, I desmogged my cruiser.
So basically you want a chevy and no government.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=182901
Here you go Chukardog.
It's even in your neighborhood!
Here you go Chukardog.
It's even in your neighborhood!
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Wow-What a misguided first post. You should sell your 60 now, because you will never be happy about it.
The 2F is nearly perfect for the chassis. It's reliable, long lasting, easy to tune and fix. Mine has 220K+ on it and runs like new. It is not a power house. Oh well. Wait until you really offroad it and realize it still won't stall, 45 degrees uphill and lugged down to 500 rpm. It does just what it is designed to do.
Smog-Here we agree, but having owned other vehicles in the early 80s all were a smog nightmare. Air pumps were universal-heck, the 71 VW bus I had in college had one. Getting rid of this complex system was the real payoff of EFI.
Birfields. Have you ever broken one? Do you know anyone other than on the internet that has broken one? What is remarkable to me is that even with lower than stock gears, larger than stock tires, lockers, and serious abuse off road, they still don't break that often. I have been 4 wheeling for years on the Rubicon, Dusy, Death Valley etc, and I've never broken a birfield. Modern birfield substitutes like the 30 spline longs I run now, up that safety factor even further. Just don't drive like an idiot, and you'll likely never break one either.
The galley plug--definitely a weak spot. You can "fix" it yourself in half a day with a right angle drill and a threaded plug. It's a pain, but if you are worried, you could fix it tomorrow easily.
It's easy to hop in a 60 and say it's underpowered, or it's rough and uncomfortable. The real beauty of the truck comes after owning it for years and realizing it's never spent a day in the shop, never left you beside the road, never limited your fun in any way and carries on every day with out drama. It will haul bikes, dogs, guns, lumber, and anything else you throw in the back, with no complaints. How many 20-25 year old light trucks carry on the way that 60s do with as few issues as an FJ60? There is a guy on this board with over 400k miles-still all original, and he's owned it since new. Try that in a Chevy.
The 2F is nearly perfect for the chassis. It's reliable, long lasting, easy to tune and fix. Mine has 220K+ on it and runs like new. It is not a power house. Oh well. Wait until you really offroad it and realize it still won't stall, 45 degrees uphill and lugged down to 500 rpm. It does just what it is designed to do.
Smog-Here we agree, but having owned other vehicles in the early 80s all were a smog nightmare. Air pumps were universal-heck, the 71 VW bus I had in college had one. Getting rid of this complex system was the real payoff of EFI.
Birfields. Have you ever broken one? Do you know anyone other than on the internet that has broken one? What is remarkable to me is that even with lower than stock gears, larger than stock tires, lockers, and serious abuse off road, they still don't break that often. I have been 4 wheeling for years on the Rubicon, Dusy, Death Valley etc, and I've never broken a birfield. Modern birfield substitutes like the 30 spline longs I run now, up that safety factor even further. Just don't drive like an idiot, and you'll likely never break one either.
The galley plug--definitely a weak spot. You can "fix" it yourself in half a day with a right angle drill and a threaded plug. It's a pain, but if you are worried, you could fix it tomorrow easily.
It's easy to hop in a 60 and say it's underpowered, or it's rough and uncomfortable. The real beauty of the truck comes after owning it for years and realizing it's never spent a day in the shop, never left you beside the road, never limited your fun in any way and carries on every day with out drama. It will haul bikes, dogs, guns, lumber, and anything else you throw in the back, with no complaints. How many 20-25 year old light trucks carry on the way that 60s do with as few issues as an FJ60? There is a guy on this board with over 400k miles-still all original, and he's owned it since new. Try that in a Chevy.
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Mark W
Yep, I really don't really care that much I guess.
Uhh... Toyota didn't have a V8 "small" or otherwise. ???????
If you mean that they should have used a Chevy motor... this rig was on thew drawing board in the '70s. Very few manufacturers were using other folks motors in their products then. Espcially Toyota. Especially when the motor that they had was satisfying 99% of their market.
You don't honestly believe that a Chevy small block of that era would outlast a 2F. Honestly?
When all is said and done, you are blaming Toyota for your personal dissatisfaction about how your individual rig serves your individual uses. This has nothing to do with design flaws and everything to do with you choosing a rig that apparently doesn't suit your needs.
Seriously, how many birfields have you broken. How often has this lack of power left you stranded as you referred to in your first post? How many times has the rig left you stranded for any reason? How many times have you had to work on your emissions system? How many axle seals have you replaced? How many miles were on your rig when you got it and how many now? What sort of overall condition was it in when you acquired it? Now?
What other rigs from the same era and in the saem class have you subjected to the same use and performance requirements? Which of these have done a better job in all of the areas where the '60 has failed in your eyes?
Not trying to slam you at all, just trying to break things down some.
Now if you had started this as a "things that I'd like to see different in MY rig", we'd be having a different discussion.
Mark...
If you mean that they should have used a Chevy motor... this rig was on thew drawing board in the '70s. Very few manufacturers were using other folks motors in their products then. Espcially Toyota. Especially when the motor that they had was satisfying 99% of their market.
You don't honestly believe that a Chevy small block of that era would outlast a 2F. Honestly?
When all is said and done, you are blaming Toyota for your personal dissatisfaction about how your individual rig serves your individual uses. This has nothing to do with design flaws and everything to do with you choosing a rig that apparently doesn't suit your needs.
Seriously, how many birfields have you broken. How often has this lack of power left you stranded as you referred to in your first post? How many times has the rig left you stranded for any reason? How many times have you had to work on your emissions system? How many axle seals have you replaced? How many miles were on your rig when you got it and how many now? What sort of overall condition was it in when you acquired it? Now?
What other rigs from the same era and in the saem class have you subjected to the same use and performance requirements? Which of these have done a better job in all of the areas where the '60 has failed in your eyes?
Not trying to slam you at all, just trying to break things down some.
Now if you had started this as a "things that I'd like to see different in MY rig", we'd be having a different discussion.
Mark...
The 2f is obviously made to be fixed in the field. I mean, there are virtually no special tools needed; an adjustable and maybe a metric socket set usually gets the job done. All the nuts and bolts are around th same size; unlike the small block chevy of which is split between metric and english sized materials.
