But... what are the added articulation benefits of the RE joints?
FJ Crusier Lower Links
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BMAN said:
People could run longer shocks and gain more articulation. Also they are less expensive than having a sleeve machined and buying a stock bushing.
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- #23
Compareing the cost is pointless, that is a given. If want a thrill lets put one of each on a 20 ton press.ShottsUZJ100 said:
I'll bet that the welds on the angle link hold very well, I am also willing to bet the the stock HREW tube will start tearing right "next" to the welds.
But on the other hand, can you hit any of these links hard enough for that to matter? I don't know.
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- #24
22' of 1.5" DOM .250 Wall tube will be here tomorrow.
That stuff is spendy. $7.45 a foot.
I have RE joints due in tomorrow as well, once those get here, they are all taken by 4Runner people, I will order some more.
That stuff is spendy. $7.45 a foot.
I have RE joints due in tomorrow as well, once those get here, they are all taken by 4Runner people, I will order some more.
sschaefer3 said:
I agree with you 100% Steve. I believe in the benefits of the RE joints and DOM. No question in my mind that they are stronger and allow greater articulation than stock bushings. Hell, being in the steel business I know the costs of materials and I'm not even going to question the pricing. I'm stiked to see that someone jumped on this as quickly as you did after learning the inherent weakness just a short time ago.
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I know the benefits of those RE joints.
I have them on only ONE end of my front lower control arms and they definitely let the axle move easier.
I have them on only ONE end of my front lower control arms and they definitely let the axle move easier.
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I'm interested, hell I'll be Steve's guinea pig. But I have a few questions based experience - shocks and springs. The biggest improvement I put on my '94 4runner was Downey springs and bilstiens all around. As Steve noted it will require longer travel shocks to (perceptibly?) increase articulation. I'd like to install a package that incorporated a taller, stiffer (ok, i've driven vette's and trucks too long
) spring, a long travel shock and beefed up links. Any recommendations?
) spring, a long travel shock and beefed up links. Any recommendations?
I know the answer but why only one end John? Please explain.
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BMAN said:
One reason is because the one joint by itself gives enough misalignment to handle the twist...and the second is because having one end with a rubber/poly type bushing will keep alot of the road vibration from traveling up the control arm and transmitting into the cabin. Even though the RE joint is still "softer" in comparison to a rod end...using the bushing at one end helps a bit more.
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- #30
Our original design used just that. One RE rubber/poly joint and one RE SF joint. To keep the on road ride as good as possible.
Then came the testing. On a Toyota 4Runner the rubber/poly bushings disintegrated and fast. One set had a run through Elvis and Martinez and it was over. The 4Runner rear suspension not only articulated but the one link up and one link down on the rear axle created a twisting on the RE rubber/poly bushings and actually split the material.
The rubber was not going to work, so we made a set with dual SF joints. Very surprisingly it rode the same on the street. Now there are many many Dual SF links out there and so far everyone likes the ride and the dual SF joints can handle the articulation the 96-02 4Runner dishes out when equipped with stock, yes stock FZJ-80 shocks. Stock 80 shocks are dirt cheap and the perfect valveing for a 4Runner. They are also 3.5" longer than stock and bolt right in.
So you can see alot has went into this. I even flew out to Tellico OHV Park to see myself a set of these links take on Slickrock. They did very well and took a ton of hits.
This customer is Dragr1 on this BBS. His name is Brett and he drove his 99 4Runner up Slickrock a month ago equipped with the dual SF links.
So on Toyotas running longer than stock shock, the dual SF ends are a must.
Then came the testing. On a Toyota 4Runner the rubber/poly bushings disintegrated and fast. One set had a run through Elvis and Martinez and it was over. The 4Runner rear suspension not only articulated but the one link up and one link down on the rear axle created a twisting on the RE rubber/poly bushings and actually split the material.
The rubber was not going to work, so we made a set with dual SF joints. Very surprisingly it rode the same on the street. Now there are many many Dual SF links out there and so far everyone likes the ride and the dual SF joints can handle the articulation the 96-02 4Runner dishes out when equipped with stock, yes stock FZJ-80 shocks. Stock 80 shocks are dirt cheap and the perfect valveing for a 4Runner. They are also 3.5" longer than stock and bolt right in.
So you can see alot has went into this. I even flew out to Tellico OHV Park to see myself a set of these links take on Slickrock. They did very well and took a ton of hits.
This customer is Dragr1 on this BBS. His name is Brett and he drove his 99 4Runner up Slickrock a month ago equipped with the dual SF links.
So on Toyotas running longer than stock shock, the dual SF ends are a must.
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I'm not debating with ya Steve, you know the Toy's more than I do, I was only making a point as to as how much even one of those joints can help in additional axle movement, which just means that 2 of them will be even that much better.
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- #32
offroader5 said:I'm not debating with ya Steve, you know the Toy's more than I do, I was only making a point as to as how much even one of those joints can help in additional axle movement, which just means that 2 of them will be even that much better.
Your right about the Cherokee only needing one joint and it would be nice if the 4Runner only needed one as well. I was pretty shocked when after only 1 run in Alabama and 2 trails out in Arizona, the rubbers were failing.
That is the importance of testing this stuff, just because it works on one vehilce does not mean it will work on all of them the same way.
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The early 4runner bushings not lasting probably is from the short links and the design of the bushings, it's cool that they made the FJC's links longer. The 80 series links are 27 3/8" long and have voids molded into the bushings, allowing for better flex. They have been proven to use all of a 12"+ shock without failure.
If you booty fabbing links yourself, welding angle on the stock links will add some strength.
Will it take the weight of the truck sitting on it without bending? I don't know but doubt it. Making them out of bigger, thicker tube, even HREW will make them much stronger and would probably work. If your paying an experienced fabricator to make them, the materials cost between "may work" and "hell for stout" is relatively small and I would go for "hell for stout" every time and not have to worry about it again!
If you booty fabbing links yourself, welding angle on the stock links will add some strength.
Will it take the weight of the truck sitting on it without bending? I don't know but doubt it. Making them out of bigger, thicker tube, even HREW will make them much stronger and would probably work. If your paying an experienced fabricator to make them, the materials cost between "may work" and "hell for stout" is relatively small and I would go for "hell for stout" every time and not have to worry about it again!
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auphrode said:I'm interested, hell I'll be Steve's guinea pig. But I have a few questions based experience - shocks and springs. The biggest improvement I put on my '94 4runner was Downey springs and bilstiens all around. As Steve noted it will require longer travel shocks to (perceptibly?) increase articulation. I'd like to install a package that incorporated a taller, stiffer (ok, i've driven vette's and trucks too long
As Steve said the stock size shocks from the 80 series work well on some lifted Runners. The stock springs also work well on some. I don't think anyone has tried it yet on a FJC? I have a collection of stock 80 springs, shocks and a pair of med. OME's, if someone wants to stop by we can measure them and if they look like they will fit toss some in to see what effect they have?
My original rear springs and shocks are in Scott's '90 Runner. They netted about a 3" lift and he is very pleased with the flex and ride.
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- #35
Tools R Us said:
I thought the short links were the culprit as well. 96-98 4Runner has a solid bushing and the 99-02 4Runner had a bushing similar to the 80 with a hollowed out area.
I'm going to stick with the RE SF ends on the DOM links for simplicity, common parts and they are relatively inexpensive and should be easy to get, although it is always hard for me to get them it seems.
Today the tube showed up and I cut and notched 2 center sections for an FJC. I also made the brake cable bracket for the side of the link. Increased that to 1/4" from 1/16".
"If" the RE ends show up today as they are supposed to I'll have a set of these done tomorrow.
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sschaefer3 said:
We will need pix of them!
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- #37
Rubicon Express Ends HAVE shown up!
There will be a set of 1 1/2" DOM 1/4" Wall FJ Cruiser Lower Links in existence TOMORROW!
I'll post pics. Remember 100% Bolt-On and 0% Booty Fab!
There will be a set of 1 1/2" DOM 1/4" Wall FJ Cruiser Lower Links in existence TOMORROW!
I'll post pics. Remember 100% Bolt-On and 0% Booty Fab!
Great! Can't wait to see them.
This is awesome guys. R&D hard at work with minute by minute updates. This is good stuff.
THIS is what this hobby is all about.
THIS is what this hobby is all about.
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- #40
Ok they are built.
2 sets of 4Runner links and the FJC set were on the list for today.
Now they all go off to get painted, then tomorrow assembled and will be 100% complete. Ready to install on an FJ Crusier. I'm also willing to bet the little side brackets could probably hold the truck up as well. I don't think the stock 1/16" ones would last long out on the rocks.
2 sets of 4Runner links and the FJC set were on the list for today.
Now they all go off to get painted, then tomorrow assembled and will be 100% complete. Ready to install on an FJ Crusier. I'm also willing to bet the little side brackets could probably hold the truck up as well. I don't think the stock 1/16" ones would last long out on the rocks.
