FJ-60 3B Turbo vs FJ-60 V8 (1 Viewer)

[TemboTusk]

I'm thinking about selling my FJ-60 v8 truck and buying a FJ-60 with 3B turbo diesel.

Couple of questions:
1: On a scale of 1-10: 1 being a standard 2F powered FJ-60 and 10 being a V8 powered 60; where does the 3B turbo fall in drivability, hills, acceleration and highway driving etc.

2: I drive a lot of highway miles and hills. With the V8, a 6% grade means I downshift from 5th to 4th gear. What happens on the same hill with a 3B-turbo, 411 gearing, 5 speed trans, 33" tires?

3: In freeway traffic and on ramps, will the 3B-T FJ-60 be scary to drive or blend into traffic with no problem?

Thanks for any insight!

 

[BC40]

Didn't run my FJ60 long before the diesel went in so this is also based on comparing to the 2F in my 40, so ymmv...

1: With something like a turbo 3B and really any modified engine, that entirely depends how it's set up. Same can be said for what the '10' end of the spectrum is though, huge range in V8's. But for a mild low boost 3B turbo, my seat of the pants evaluation is it likely could land in the range of 1 to 3 on your scale. Basing that simply on an overall similar driveability to a strong running 2F, but with a different feel that the diesel fuelling provides.

2: EGT gauge will tell you. Put enough air in it and keep it cool and you can pull 4th gear on hills.

3: subjective. but shouldn't be worse than a stock FJ60.

 

[TemboTusk]

BC40, Thanks for the thorough evaluation of the 3B performance. That helps a lot!

 

[80nick]

I camped next to you at O-expo back in May, next to Kanz, at the AutoHome display. I drove my tan 45 truck with the tan RTT on it. We put a 3B with a turbo in that truck before I drove out from the Bay area. If you drive to a lot of events, loaded down with stuff, I'd probably stick to a V8, I think you would miss the power. I like my 3B, but I feel like I have to pay more attention to what is going on with the rig now. And it does get slow on those long steep grades that you are talking about. When we drove up Tehachapi it was like 105 degrees out, 3rd gear(H55F) truck started to get pretty warm. The 2 other 3B trucks we were with did the same thing. If you do it, I'd plan on doing an intercooler, 4 row rad, open exhaust etc. Unloaded, around town, I drive the 45 daily with 0 issues. It moves, better than my 2F 40, goes the speed of traffic, merges fine, and returns 20 ish plus MPG.

 

[doug720]

I know you are talking 3b vs V8, so staying stock/Toyota is likely not the biggest concern. So have you considered other engines?

The Isuzu 4BD1/2 engines are popular, fit well, easy to find and parts are at any GM or Isuzu dealer here in the US. Plus, the performance is very good, not V8, but much better than a 2f or 3b.

There are many of these swaps on mud, existing and in progress, and I've yet to read of one that the owners are not pleased.

Just another idea.

Good luck which ever way you decide.

 

[TemboTusk]

Hi 80nick, Yes, I remember the truck, you are part of Mudrak's group. From the sounds of it, the 3B does not have enough get up and go even when with a turbo. Living on the West Coast, it does not matter which direction you travel, it is always uphill ... even when you return on the same road! Doesn't sound like I would be happy with a 3B motor. When I'm on the road, I fully loaded and at least once a year I tow a trailer full of stuff to the Overland Expo. Thanks for the help.


Doug, I agree with you about the Isuzu engine, I have seen your Cruiser in person and it is impressive!! I'm not really looking to do a swap at this time, I had my eye on an existing Cruiser with the 3B-T. I think I will pass on it at this time.

 

[Warhammer]

It looks like you got your answer for the most part, but I'll speak as well, since I have turbo-charged 3B in my 60, and I drive it every day. It's a slug going up hills. I love it because it's easy to maintain, and for a 4x4 it gets great mileage. I can tow a trailer with a 4000-pound vehicle on it, but not more than 45-50 MPH on the freeway. I took it up the Grapevine in Southern California, loaded down with ton of shooting gear, and I was in second and third gear most of the time, going 25 MPH, and it got pretty hot even with the electric fan going. Heat has always been it's biggest problem. I've since upgraded it with a small top-mounted intercooler with a hood-scoop, a large dual-pass radiator from http://prcracing.com/, and an oil-cooler from an old rotary-powered Mazda, and the heat is much more manageable now. I also installed three gauges to keep track of EGT, boost, and a more accurate temperature reading. It's an involved experience driving it, monitoring the gauges and all, but it's kind of fun, but don't plan on going more than 60 MPH on the freeway for extended periods of time. I usually cruise at 55-60 MPH on the way to work. If I had to tow a lot of heavy loads and haul stuff up hills all the time, I would probably be looking to put in something with more power, but for standard SUV and camping/shooting duties, it's a great care-free mileage master.

 

[TemboTusk]

Thanks for your input Warhammer. The Grapevine is the ultimate test of any vehicle! That is one long haul.

I would love the mileage and simplicity of the the diesel; I carry a full jerry can of gas just to make it to the next gas station! Well, maybe not that bad, but, in 4-wheel low, the gears will cut deeply into the the mileage, it is a concern.

I'll keep looking! I really want my cake and eat it too!! Great mileage and gobs of power!

 

[doug720]

Since the Grapevine was mentioned...A little Isuzu performance report

This is my 60 going Southbound on the 5 from the Bako side and climbing up to Lebec. We are loaded with 3 people, 3 dogs, plus camping and fishing gear inside and on the roof rack for a 4 day trip. 5th gear, ac on, about 100 outside @ 73 mph with 15 pounds boost and 1050 egt. I have averaged just over 20 mpg for the 30K miles since the swap.

 

[TemboTusk]

Now that is just wrong!! That much power at 20 miles to the gallon! I think my 383 would struggle to keep up with you while doing half the mileage.

 

[doug720]

Sorry, I really like how this engine swap works. 3.9l is about 240 ci and I have the fuel turned up a little.

 

[TemboTusk]

Doug, if I were to do my swap all over again, I would follow your build. Best on one out there!

For the fortune I have sunk into my vehicle, I should have gone diesel from the beginning. Although the 383 V8 is fun to drive.

 

[Lasse]

I do not have an 3B but I do have one 60 with a 2H and one 60 with a 12H-T.
I have never driven and sluggish old (rubbish?) American V8 as they aren't common here. I can't imagine they are a power brick. 120-250hp at 5-8L displacement ... (Flame away...)
My 2H without a turbo is utterly guttess at hills, overtaking and loaded up with gear. With a proper turbo and the right tuning it hauls ass! Strong, holds highway speeds up hills and a charm to overtake with given the type of car it is.
My HJ61 with a 12H-T is even more awesome. At stock it will be a little gutless, slows down on hills and so on. Give it a mild tune and it hauls ass again. One misconception that flourish in the diesel community, especially in those country's not familiar with diesel engines are to tune it at low boost and make it smoke a lot. No black smoke equals no power in many minds, but it is exactly what kills your engine. Diesel: Rich = unnecessary heat, Lean = Optimal blend for highest efficiency = happy engine. Gasoline: Lean = unnecessary heat, Rich = cooling the combustion reaction.

Currently I run my 12H-T on about 1.4 bar, disconnected wastegate and mild fuelling. This gives me a pretty noticeable acceleration, haven't done any other modification to the engine. I have an H55F with 3.73 differentials and 33" tires. I have no problem keeping 140km/h on the highway, even up hills. Engine wants to go higher, but the limitations to my truck and my death wish keeps me there. At mixed long commute travel with lot of bends, uphill and downhills, highway and gravel roads I manage to get 9.21L/100km. I have so little black smoke under acceleration I would say it is none!

I know this is a six cylinder diesel, direct injected but I could imagine the 3B to be able to do similar with a proper tune.
Just remember, what ever you do, install a egt probe PRE turbo! and monitor it closely, heat kills a diesel engine and throw rods trough your bonnet if unlucky.

I vote; buy the 3B FJ60 and sell your V8 FJ60.
I will probably run my truck on a dyno when I finnish the wvo, IC, water injection build and tuning.

For those of you not familiar with the awesome metric system use Google

No pun intended

 

[TemboTusk]

Hey Lasse, No flaming! There is no finesse with a Chevy V8 and even less with a stroked 383. Although it is a joy to drive in a hot rod kind of way. A diesel is a no nonsense workhorse and no less enjoyable to hear, smell and feel.

If the vehicle I was looking at had a 12H-T ... this thread would never have been started! By all accounts, the 3B is a bit of a slug turbo or not and here on the West Coast, the terrain is not conducive to slugs. The roads are long, hot and uphill regardless of direction. I wish diesel Cruisers were as easy and plentiful to find here in the States as they are in other parts of the world.




The metric system is for sissies! I agree it is superior in every way, especially when it comes to wrenches! But, 30 degrees C does not sound as warm as 85 F and 85 miles an hour just has better ring to it than 136.79 KM. (thanks Google) Ok, Ok, maybe I did flame just a little bit!!

 

[Lasse]

Sorry to say it but that we uses different measuring systems have killed astronauts and others before
If you want to have a high figure use Kelvin for temperature. Its starts at absolute zero (-273.15C) and uses the same 0-100 scale for water freezing and cooking (changing state) as Celsius does. 303 degree kelvin sounds a lot warmer than 85F. Imagine a standard room temperature of 298K
Sorry to say again but a top speed of 385km/h sounds a lot more than 240mph. At drags we go to 100km/h you stops at 60mph (96.56km/h)

/Flame mode of

I have been to the states three times and once did a round trip/road trip trough California and just about touched Nevada for a night.
Yes, towards the cost I would agree it is a little hilly some places but if you did a quick image search on google on Norway I am pretty sure fjords and mountains would stick out. Norway is nothing else than mountain passes and a lot of uphill and downhill climbs and my 12H-T and 2H-T doesn't mind. I have even won drag races on the highway against small sedans on my mild sissy tune

A fellow cruiser here has an old BJ75 with an 3B. It truly is gutless and a slug uphill. He plans to put a turbo on it but that I believe is in such a distance future you have changed car by the time I could tell you awesome it pulls

Is there anyway I can convince you to go the Toyota diesel way in a cruiser or is it a dead race?
If you suddenly feel the need to take your next vacation in Norway after that image search, you are more than welcome to visit me and test out my HJ61

 

[Lasse]

Some key conversions for those to lazy to look up google.
9.21L/100km = about 25 mpg
140 km/h = about 85 mph
1.4 bar = 20.3 psi, planning to settle on around 2.0 bar after intercooler and fine tuning. 2.0 bar = 29 psi
I might drop down to 120km/h on a very step hill (75mph).

 

[ToyRoverlander]

For what it's worth... My 3B used to be a slug, even when it was still on 255/85 tires (4speed 4.1 diffs 4500lbs vehicle) . It was slooooooowww. I've been to the Alps with it and going uphill often required going to 3rd gear or even 2nd gear.

Now it has a TD04 13T turbo, Saab FMIC (large surface area but only an inch thick), wastegate unhooked running usually about up to 15psi but can see 20psi easily. Fuel is turned up fully, mechanical governor adjusted and have done the mercedes spring mod. It sits on 35" rubber now and I have to say, this thing hauls butt! Hills are no longer a problem, overtaking is easy. From 1000rpm it pulls hard even in 4th. This engine is totally transformed. It responds way more aggresively on the throttle. It's a lot of fun driving it. Fuel economy has suffered though, it wasn't great in NA condition but now it sits at around 15l/100km. I'm not too concerned about reduced longevity, the way I drive it it rarely sees more than 15psi, and on cruise (95km/h) it sits at 8psi more or less. I haven't seen EGT above 500degrees, even on a 35 degree Celcius day. Water temp does climb on the short steep hills here but have never exceeded 90degree celcius. I run a large aluminium radiator with twin 12" fans on a shroud to keep it cool.
I would never swap it for a V8.

On a 3B with a more conservative tune the results will be totally different ofcourse.

On the other hand, if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't bother with the 3B and go the Mercedes OM606 route with mechanical pump . Incredible power and torque, good economy and revs like a petrol engine.

 

[Lasse]

ToyRover:
3B with a mechanical governor?
Witch marked was your 3B build for, Europe?
I am aware they was delivered with mechanical rotary pump or pneumatic governor inline pump.
You might have the rotary then?

H41 combined with 4.1 differentials isen't the best combination for good highway speeds, but great for hills

 

[ToyRoverlander]

European market. It has an inline pump with pneumatic governor, the mechanical governor controls max engine speed. Apparantly it starts reducing fuel at +-2800rpm. By increasing the max rpm the point that it starts to decrease fuel also gets raised to higher rpm. No idea how many revs it's capable of, I don't think mine ever revs over 3500rpm.