Fipg w cork gasket? (1 Viewer)

[Gretsch]

I used the Toyota fipg and felt like it all went in well but a week later still leaking more than I like.

It might be leaking from behind the timing plate.

Or possibly the two lower bolts in the TC. They thread into the front main bearing cap I believe providing a direct path for engine oil to escape if not sealed properly. FSM calls for sealer on them when installing for this reason. I don't think I cleaned out the bolt holes enough of oil when I put mine back in and the sealer never really set up right. Mine seeps a little from these bolts I think. As @cps432 mentions, the plate seal can leak as well. I didn't replace mine. Hard to tell where the oil is coming from on that seal sandwich in that area. I installed my TC gasket dry FWIW.

 

[cps432]

Or possibly the two lower bolts in the TC. They thread into the front main bearing cap I believe providing a direct path for engine oil to escape if not sealed properly. FSM calls for sealer on them when installing for this reason. I don't think I cleaned out the bolt holes enough of oil when I put mine back in and the sealer never really set up right. Mine seeps a little from these bolts I think. As @cps432 mentions, the plate seal can leak as well. I didn't replace mine. Hard to tell where the oil is coming from on that seal sandwich in that area. I installed my TC gasket dry FWIW.

Yeah, chasing the threads and cleaning them out with some degreaser is a good idea. Tricky, though, you don’t want to dump shavings and junk into the oil pan. If you had the pan dropped while doing this it would be a piece of cake to get those threads nice and clean I believe.

 

[bcolvin]

It might be leaking from behind the timing plate.

Is there a good way to tell if leak is coming from behind the timing plate? I sat and watched the leak to make sure it was coming from behind the timing cover. It also looks like the cork gasket is warping. I spread a thin layer of fipg over the front and back of the gasket. Each time I have chased this leak. On this last attempt I spent a considerable amount of time straightening up the timing cover.

 

[Gretsch]

Based on what I can see in your photo, it looks like its your TC seal that's no good as you can see what looks to me like oil on the front of the timing plate leading from the TC. I can't really tell what's going on with your TC/TC seal in that photo, but it doesn't look to me like it would ever seal the way you have it. Maybe what @SNLC was mentioning about what happens to cork when you put FIPG on it in post 10. My gasket doesn't extend out like that beyond the edges of the TC itself as to ever allow it to flip up in the way yours is, so I am a little confused as to what I am looking at. OEM gasket? Is that the gasket itself or the lip of the TC bent like that or both? Or is the FIPG oozed out there in that area? TC needs to be pretty straight to be able to seal properly and the gasket should be hard against the timing plate. Requires all that gasket surface area to ensure a good seal. It has a steel reinforcement ring right in that area to keep that part straight. Gasket might be split as well due to over tightening those bolts there. Looks to me that's where your leak would be coming from though. Prolly not what you want to hear but most likely could stand to be re-done. HTH.

 

[bcolvin]

Based on what I can see in your photo, it looks like its your TC seal that's no good as you can see what looks to me like oil on the front of the timing plate leading from the TC. I can't really tell what's going on with your TC/TC seal in that photo, but it doesn't look to me like it would ever seal the way you have it. Maybe what @SNLC was mentioning about what happens to cork when you put FIPG on it in post 10. My gasket doesn't extend out like that beyond the edges of the TC itself as to ever allow it to flip up in the way yours is, so I am a little confused as to what I am looking at. OEM gasket? Is that the gasket itself or the lip of the TC bent like that or both? Or is the FIPG oozed out there in that area? TC needs to be pretty straight to be able to seal properly and the gasket should be hard against the timing plate. Requires all that gasket surface area to ensure a good seal. It has a steel reinforcement ring right in that area to keep that part straight. Gasket might be split as well due to over tightening those bolts there. Looks to me that's where your leak would be coming from though. Prolly not what you want to hear but most likely could stand to be re-done. HTH.

@Gretsch .... I am thinking the exact same thing as you. The gaskets are from Cruiser Outfitters. They are a combination of cork and rubber... so maybe there is a weird reactions with the FIPG? I will be going with either permatex aviation gasket stuff or without any on the next round. @cruisermatt With the permatex aviation gasket maker should I put it on both sides and the entire surface? Also are you using this as the thread sealer?

Another issue is even with the low torque numbers 53-69 in/lbs on the small bolts and 12-17ft/lbs on the large bottom bolts I seem to be flirting with splitting the gasket or at least making it bulge. Are all of you using those torque values? I removed the the Harmonic Balancer after hand tightening the bolts to get the proper location on the TC. Then was able to get the torque wrench in the proper location. Thanks

 

[cruisermatt]

@Gretsch .... I am thinking the exact same thing as you. The gaskets are from Cruiser Outfitters. They are a combination of cork and rubber... so maybe there is a weird reactions with the FIPG? I will be going with either permatex aviation gasket stuff or without any on the next round. @cruisermatt With the permatex aviation gasket maker should I put it on both sides and the entire surface? Also are you using this as the thread sealer?

Another issue is even with the low torque numbers 53-69 in/lbs on the small bolts and 12-17ft/lbs on the large bottom bolts I seem to be flirting with splitting the gasket or at least making it bulge. Are all of you using those torque values? I removed the the Harmonic Balancer after hand tightening the bolts to get the proper location on the TC. Then was able to get the torque wrench in the proper location. Thanks

Yes, I coat both sides of the gasket and I use it as my thread sealer as well.

 

[Gretsch]

I used the torque values in the FSM, but didn't do it quite like you said. I got the TC on with hand tightened bolts, put the HB on to center the TC, torqued the crank nut to spec, and then went around and torqued the bolts on the TC to spec. Since I didn't use FIPG on the gasket, it allowed me to take my time and not race FIPG setup times. I also cleaned the crap out of the timing plate and TC mating service before I put the TC on. I am not sure if torqueing the crank nut helps center the TC or not. I doubt there is any issue with how you did it but I did it as the FSM instructs. I tend to follow the FSM to be safe because typically work I am doing on my Cruiser is the first time I have done it. I try and live by @cps432's sig line ruleset as much as I am allowed. It just looks to me like your TC is bent somehow and your gasket is off center in your photo. It's prolly some photographic illusion though.

I really didn't notice any indication of my gasket splitting using the torque specs provided in the FSM. Not sure how I could tell if its split without taking it apart, but considering its not really leaking I call it good. I got my gasket from @Beno when he was still in the parts game which maybe gives an indication of how long its been since I did it. AFAIK its Toyota OEM. CO sells quality stuff so doubt there could be anything wonky with the gasket you got from them, but dunno. Again it just looks from your photo the TC is bent somehow. HTH.

 

[BlackCat]

I used a small amount on the timing cover gasket, a bit on the thermostat housing, and the pushrod cover gasket. Nothing on the water pump gasket. And when I say small amount, I mean enough to just tack it in place to make it easier to install. Your leak is probably from the timing plate gasket, which is thin paper. It runs down the timing plate, onto the cork of the timing cover gasket, and drips off the bottom. I just did mine a few months ago.

 

[wngrog]

I’ve never had FIPG hurt a thing. If it makes you feel better to add some have at it.

Paper and cork are great as long as your surfaces and threads are perfect which many are not after prior workers beating and prying.

 

[Chris Versteegh]

Just Permatex Aircraft. Nothing special. Using this now on all cork and paper engine gaskets, as well as using it as a thread sealant on things like threaded oil galley plug mod, etc, transmission/t-case gaskets, cork diff cover gaskets..
The only thing I’m using RTV for on 40’s/60’s is for where the third members bolt into the axle housings. And to glue the bronze thrust washer in place when assembling transfer cases.

I haven't used this Aircraft sealant before but am interested in it. Since you use it on bolt threads do you also use it at the splits of the main bearing caps where FIPG called out?

 

[wngrog]

I haven't used this Aircraft sealant before but am interested in it. Since you use it on bolt threads do you also use it at the splits of the main bearing caps where FIPG called out?

It’s not in the same class as FIPG for things like that. It’s great for a possible vacuum leak or even a backup for paper but not that

 

[Chris Versteegh]

It’s not in the same class as FIPG for things like that. It’s great for a possible vacuum leak or even a backup for paper but not that

@wngrog Thanks for that guidance. With your mention of backup for paper I know others have asked about sealing the backside of the paper gasket on the front end plate, would it be relevant to use in that situation or would you: 1.) Leave it dry or 2.) Use a small amount of FIPG in a pattern that is simalr to the front side of the OEM gasket?

 

[wngrog]

@wngrog Thanks for that guidance. With your mention of backup for paper I know others have asked about sealing the backside of the paper gasket on the front end plate, would it be relevant to use in that situation or would you: 1.) Leave it dry or 2.) Use a small amount of FIPG in a pattern that is simalr to the front side of the OEM gasket?

I use FIPG on the front plate. That’s the last place I want a leak. Also make damn sure you have the right M6 bolt in the right spot up there.

 

[Hammer45]

Ok all. How about on these? Thin layer of FIPG? Planning on using the double wire ring hose clamps. Thanks again for your help. D

 

[cps432]

Ok all. How about on these? Thin layer of FIPG? Planning on using the double wire ring hose clamps. Thanks again for your help. D

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Sounds like a good way to introduce FIPG into.... your fuel system? Are those fuel lines or coolant lines? Either way I would NOT put rtv or fipg there. It’ll ball up and break free and end up clogging things up.

 

[Hammer45]

Those are the bypass coolant lines that go to uh. I forgot. Need a picture. I was thinking just a little layer high away from the connection end. No way for it to get to the coolant. Just beneath the clamps.

 

[cps432]

Those are the bypass coolant lines that go to uh. I forgot. Need a picture. I was thinking just a little layer high away from the connection end. No way for it to get to the coolant. Just beneath the clamps.

Hmmmmm.... questionable...

 

[Hammer45]

Yup. That’s the question! Thanks for the feedback. Just looks like those bumpy and pitted pipes are a setup for a leak.

 

[cps432]

Yup. That’s the question! Thanks for the feedback. Just looks like those bumpy and pitted pipes are a setup for a leak.

Probably. But I’m not sure fipg would prevent it.

 

[wngrog]

Coolant lines if needed use aircraft sealant in the hose. Install. Tighten fitting.