FAQ Discussion: Crawl, Multi-Terrain, Optional Lockers or ATRAC when best to use each

[usmcHOG]

Resurrecting an older thread. There is some great discussion and clarification here on how to use the various features at slow/low speeds while off roading. What, if anything do you guys engage/disengage when trying to run your rigs at faster speeds? I keep the following cheat sheet in my Tundra and was looking for something similar for the LC.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Like some other started, I started on old 4wd systems, and have over 15 years of hard rock climbing and all around terrible trail conditions wheeling experience.

So for me, the second I'm on a surface to allow slippage, I lock the center diff and disengage the VSC, not because I need it, but for the possibility of needing to avoid something, like a dirt bike flying at me at mach jesus and I need to swerve. That would be the time I don't need slippage from a computer.

Whenever I go up things I lock the rear diff, and when I know I'll have off camber twisting on the front axle, I'll lock the front just for the obstacle and disengage once over it.

Doing down hill and trail riding, I keep the front and rear lockers off. Only time I lock when down hill is when going down, but the trail is twisting either left and right, and there is a big 'ol rock I the way to send power away from the tire I need traction, then I'll only lock the front to also swing the back end around. That's kinda advanced, so be careful.

It was mentioned earlier, but experience is the real traction improver. Driving schools are the best, and obviously faster than decades of trial and error. Because once you know, you can do a lot. Hell, I've taken a bone rental stock GMC envoy down black bear pass and up pokipsy gulch while Jeep friends on 37s were blowing up diffs.

Crawl control is pretty good, but it will never be locker good, but locker need training, that's why all these systems are so great for the average user.

That's what land cruisers are all about, taking anyone and everyone, with everything they need, to wherever you want, and then bring you back.

 

[usmcHOG]

Thanks for responding Taco. I too have 30+ years driving 4wd trucks, GPW's, CJ's, HMMWV's, Hilix's etc all over the US, Africa, Afghan and the Middle East.

I understand what to do on technical terrain when going slow. But what do others do when they want to go fast???

I posed the question above because, this past week, Jordan Brenthel (Proffesional class 1 trophy truck racer) took my LC out for a photo shoot. While out there, he called and asked what buttons do what so he could really run the truck without all the nannies engaging. I didn't have an answer and told him to look in the owners manual!

Ultimately this made me think of the cheat sheet I keep in the Tundra to remind we what and how to turn off when I'm jumping and running hard in the dessert.

Just wondering what if anything others do?

If no one knows, not a big deal. Jordan and I are going out again in Jan and will have two days to experiment and from that, I'll make one up. Just thought I'd ask here first.

 

[Dan Higgins]

So where are good driving schools and would they teach you how to make the most of the new features on the latest Land Cruisers? Land Rover has their schools. Is there something similar for Land Cruisers?

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Thanks for responding Taco. I too have 30+ years driving 4wd trucks, GPW's, CJ's, HMMWV's, Hilix's etc all over the US, Africa, Afghan and the Middle East.

I understand what to do on technical terrain when going slow. But what do others do when they want to go fast???

I posed the question above because, this past week, Jordan Brenthel (Proffesional class 1 trophy truck racer) took my LC out for a photo shoot. While out there, he called and asked what buttons do what so he could really run the truck without all the nannies engaging. I didn't have an answer and told him to look in the owners manual!

Ultimately this made me think of the cheat sheet I keep in the Tundra to remind we what and how to turn off when I'm jumping and running hard in the dessert.

Just wondering what if anything others do?

If no one knows, not a big deal. Jordan and I are going out again in Jan and will have two days to experiment and from that, I'll make one up. Just thought I'd ask here first.

Didn't mean for it to come off like, "look at my credentials!", was more emphasisng how driving schools by professionals are better than breaking metal on 200s for this particular group of people.

I don't have any high speed time in my 200, but when I used to work in a shop we had our hand at desert racing, and i had the most seat time out of the bunch.

If I were to run at speed in the 200, I would still lock the center diff which will disengage the VSC and I'd turn off swerve control, because I don't want what @Markuson was talking about and have the VSC essentially slow me down . If I were new to high speed, I'd leave VSC on by unlocking the center diff and just turn off swerve control to allow tire slippage in the sand. VSC will save you from powering off the side of the trail when sideways if you aren't ready to kick the back end out and basically drift around turns.

I think it's also a good time to talk speed. When I think speed I think over 60mph in the dirt. So if you are ready to completely control a 3 ton vehicle bombing through the desert, then take control. If you are unsure, leave VSC engaged.

To relate just to your experiences, on HMMWVs in Afghan, I was airborne infantry for all my deployments and whenever I was QRF and drove as f**ing fast as we could to get to my buddies in fights, we made it a platoon SOP to kick into high lock for more positive forward traction and less power being sent to the axle that doesn't have as much traction, and gunners just held on for the ride. Since my old 1151 gun trucks and 200s are pretty much the same, full time 4wheel drive with center lockers. I would treat it like the same if that's what you're used to.

 

[usmcHOG]

Thanks for the insight Taco. I definitely agree, driving schools are well worth the time and $$$. Lucky for me, USMC HMMWV school back in the day was 4 weeks and 75% was all off-road. I was also fortunate enough to attend multiple performance driving schools like Bobby Ore's and Rod Millen's and a few week long EVOC classes.

When Jordan and I go out next month, we will play around with the different options on the 200 and I will report back what we learn.

Holding on for dear life is what I'm used to as well as what I always yelled to the guys if I was driving!

Airborne, RLTW...

 

[use2bn83]

So where are good driving schools and would they teach you how to make the most of the new features on the latest Land Cruisers? Land Rover has their schools. Is there something similar for Land Cruisers?

I know this is old, but right here in Colorado we have Bill Burke who has gobbs and gobbs of experience using these systems. Check him out here

Bill Burke's 4-Wheeling America - since 1986
or
Bill Burke's 4-Wheeling America | Register for training and trips today!

Cheers!

 

[overl4nd]

Older GX4760 can get crawl control/MTS via a simple mod. What about the land cruiser? Can a 2008-2012 LC get crawl control or you have go with 2013 models?

 

[canyonrider]

2008-12 LCs all have crawl control already. No MTS modes, though.

 

[overl4nd]

2008-12 LCs all have crawl control already. No MTS modes, though.

I was not aware of that. Where is the control for the same?

 

[canyonrider]

I was not aware of that. Where is the control for the same?

On my 2009 it’s on the center console, a twist switch to the right of the shifter.

 

[Markuson]

I was not aware of that. Where is the control for the same?

Center console, but can only be activated in 4Lo.

 

[overl4nd]

Center console, but can only be activated in 4Lo.

that is great to know. I now should decide 2008 or 2011+
2011+ gives me bluetooth audio, but 2008 I will be highly motivated to upgrade the stereo!

 

[TLCLVR]

I have a 2013 LX570. Center locking diff is standard, but no option for front or rear lockers, yet I see people adding them aftermarket. I had triple lockers on my old FJ80, and that system was pretty straight forward.

Question is, how do aftermarket front and rear lockers installed on an LX570 interface with, and affect the functionality of the MTS and, perhaps more importantly, the crawl system? MTS is automatically activated when 4L is engaged. So is it as simple as the system not sensing a need for braking when lockers are engaged? What about Crawl?

 

[M1911]

Yeah, the crawl control and traction control systems will work just fine with the axles locked. Those systems work by sensing differential speeds between wheels and braking the faster turning wheel. With the axle locked, there will be no speed difference left to right, so no need for the traction control to brake one of the wheels.

 

[Will Van]

Edit: I apologize, the information I provided below is incorrect. Multi-Terrain Select and Crawl Control cannot be engaged at the same time. Sorry for the misinformation.

One thing to keep in mind also is that "terrain select" and "crawl mode" are two different modes if you will. Meaning if you're in 4 low (with the crawl button not activated) the silver dial is your "terrain select" knob, rotating it gives you the different terrain options. The minute you select "crawl mode" by hitting the button that dial is now used to control your speed within "crawl" (1-5kph) and no "terrain select" features are available.

I did not realize that Rock (Terrain Control) was voided by the Crawl selection.

I just wanted to add some clarification to kreiten's and chilibit's statements above:

Crawl Control (CC) and Multi-Terrain Select (MTS) systems can be engaged at the same time and will complement each other.

The correct way to engage both systems is to engage MTS first (and select the appropriate terrain setting). Then engage CC and select the desired speed. Once CC is engaged, the MTS setting is essentially locked and the dial simply controls the CC speed. So the MTS isn't necessarily "voided" by engaging CC, it just freezes MTS into the previously-selected setting (Mud and Sand, Loose Rock, Rock and Dirt, Mogul, or Rock mode).

The advantage of combining both MTS and CC is that you can tailor the CC feature specifically to the terrain you are traversing. So the vehicle will behave differently in CC "Mud and Sand" than it would in CC "Rock".

A simple way to test the system interaction would be to engage MTS, then engage CC, then disengage MTS. You should get a prompt that MTS has been disengaged, but the vehicle will still be operating in CC. That's how it is on my Tacoma.

 

[Will Van]

Think of it more as a controlled ATRAC setup, i.e. how much slip do you want in the traction control system. Mud & Sand will allow more slip, to allow you to keep momentum and tire spin, whereas Rock will allow the least amount of tire spin prior to kicking in the brakes when a wheel slips. It's almost easier to look at the screen and just think 1 thru 5, how much slip do I want, or wheel spin, or whatever you want to call it prior to the brakes slowing that wheel down. Hope that kinda helps...

Thanks, to make sure I understand. The Mult-terrain is an adjustment of the ATRAC braking. setting 1 (Mud and Sand) allows the maximum wheel slip ratio before braking where as 5 (Rock) allows the minimum wheel slip ratio before breaking. If I got it right, that's an easy concept to understand

Using the example above, would you categorize A-TRAC alone as equivalent to "Setting 6" on Multi-Terrain Select (the absolute minimum amount of wheel slippage)? Or does A-TRAC alone have about the same amount of slippage as the "Rock" setting on MTS?

 

[kreiten]

Using the example above, would you categorize A-TRAC alone as equivalent to "Setting 6" on Multi-Terrain Select (the absolute minimum amount of wheel slippage)? Or does A-TRAC alone have about the same amount of slippage as the "Rock" setting on MTS?

The system on “rock” is way more agressive than A-trac alone

 

[Will Van]

The system on “rock” is way more agressive than A-trac alone

Roger that. Where do you think A-TRAC falls in the Multi-Terrain Select settings? Closer to "Setting 1"/Mud and Sand?

 

[kreiten]

Roger that. Where do you think A-TRAC falls in the Multi-Terrain Select settings? Closer to "Setting 1"/Mud and Sand?

that's about what it feels like to me