Builds Family haulin'

[Duiser Offroad]

Thanks for the excitement guys. I'm having to divert some attention this week to batteries since my current set have given up the ghost with the beginning of this cooler weather. None of my other spare batteries have enough balls to crank over the cummins. I cannot foot the bill for awesome batteries so I'm researching for mid grade budget stuff. I plan to get something after work today.

Get me some part numbers, sales@duiser.com, I'll see what I can do.

 

[boots4]

Get me some part numbers, sales@duiser.com, I'll see what I can do.

Bummer, wish I would have seen this sooner. I greatly appreciate the offer.

I did pick up a set of new batteries. I found a local battery house who made me a deal. I had several dead batteries that have been accumulating over the years and I wanted to clean those out. He "bought" those and put them towards credit on my purchase which knocked down the price by 25%. I got two heavy duty starting group 31's with 1000CCA and 188 reserve minutes for $144. It was a great deal so I did it.

Columbia Brand, an Oregon thing.

I asked him to show me the manufacture date and there was a stamp on the top (can't see in the photo) of J4 which means October of 2014 meaning these things are fresh!

Hooked all the cables back up and gave it a whirl. They started the truck fine but didn't spin the starter with the authority I thought they should (I've had a similar battery in here before and the starter spun much faster). At least these will start the truck so my doesn't have to walk the kids to school in the rain but I'll be pulling the starter tonight to crack it open and see if I can find anything. I've never had any problems with this starter so it may finally need a refresh.

I did a ton more measuring last night on turbo fitment and no matter what there is no perfect position. I'm probably looking at a little firewall work and probably a re-route of the exhaust under the tranny rather than over it for where I'll probably put it.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

I completely agree with your diagnosis and next steps with the starter, but as a reminder, the starter will always labor more in colder weather. Mine sure is laboring more now that it drops down into the 40s at night.

I wonder if you ran the block heater overnight and then started again if the starter would have the "authority" you're looking for.

 

[boots4]

You're right and I do expect a slower turn over with colder weather but it seems slower than even that. I would expect the sluggishness I'm experiencing to be more in the 20s to 30s range for temperature. We're still in the 50s. If it's nothing then surely a good cleaning can't hurt anything. Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[boots4]

Got a call this morning that the truck wouldn't even turn over. Yup, now I'm definitely pulling the starter. I found some rebuild parts online (brushes, solenoid plunger and contacts) depending on what it is or even brand new starters on Ebay for $100 free shipping. I'll see what's up after work today.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Bummer

Chevy style starter right? Wish I had a spare I could send you.

 

[boots4]

Thanks for the kindness. After this I may end up with a spare. I found part numbers in a starter tech tread on 4btswaps and will post them here if they turn out being correct. My is being a good sport about this and the kids don't have school starting the next couple days due to teacher in-service days so this comes at a "convenient" time.

 

[Kief]

I'm running a starter that is gear reduction Nippon Denso and looks like a giant 2f starter- what is yours?

I've got a local Alt/starter shop that has no problem selling me brushes/bearings/contacts. AA electric.

 

[boots4]

I believe it's the denso gear reduction kind. I'll know more when I pull it out. Last time I touched that was 4 or 5 years ago when I did the engine rebuild.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

I have a brand new SBC starter sitting in my garage if you need it.

 

[boots4]

Not sure that would have enough umpf, but thanks.

EDIT: Chad I was re-reading some posts and realized why you offered. When Johnny said Chevy style he meant the starter that goes with the chevy adapter on my 4bt. Different 4bt adapters had a little different starters depending on the chassis it came out of. He didn't mean it was an actual chevy starter. Thanks again for the offer.

 

[boots4]

I pulled the starter and took it apart. There was a decent about of carbon build up from the brushes so I spent a little time cleaning it up. The bearings feel smooth and generally the parts are still in good condition.

The obvious culprit with it apart was the plunger and contacts. The way it works is the contact on the bottom right is connected to the battery positive (usually the big fat cable). The contact on the bottom left is connected to the starter motor. The plunger has that copper ring on it and the spring keeps it floating above the contacts. When the signal is given (turning the ignition to start) the solenoid activates pulling the plunger down and completes the circuit with the contacts. You can see on my contacts that they are worn away. One side wore away more than the other in my case and a gap opened up. It finally got far enough that the circuit could not be completed and thus the starter not turning over. These wear out over time but something I found suggests that underrated batteries may contribute to these contacts wearing out faster. I found LarryB's with some interesting info in the FAQ secion. "Low cranking amps can cause excess arcing in the solenoid contacts resulting in burned contacts." http://www.fostertruck.com/faqs/

This is the condition of my brushes. I've got one that is about at the end of its travel so I'll be replacing this part as well.

I decided to rebuild my starter instead of ordering one from Ebay. I found that there are at least three versions of these denso gear reduction starters. A 2.2Kw, 2.5Kw and 2.8Kw. I've got the 2.5Kw version and after the clean up it still looked pretty good so I found some replacement parts from LarryB's here: http://www.fostertruck.com/dodge/starters.html

I ordered the "LarryB's Cummins & Dodge Denso Starter EASY rebuild kit 94-06" and it should show up today. I can then get the truck on the road for a week until next weekend when I plan to pull it down for the turbo install.

I'm taking two days off around the weekend to give me plenty of time to test fitment, cut and grind stuff, hunt down parts, and reroute the exhaust. Honestly I hope I have enough time because there is always something(s) that come up but I've gotten about as far as I can without putting it in place to see how it will sit. Then I can determine a plan afterwards.

I made a little bracket for the spring gate I'm making to control the wastegate on the secondary via drive pressure. I picked up a handful of springs at the hardware store to play with. I'll use a bolt that can screw in and out of the wastegate pivot to allow some adjustment on the tension of the springs changing how much drive pressure it will take to open the wastegate in turn determining how much boost the secondary will make and affecting how much work it will do between the two turbos. That will be the tuning part after the install with my target of 50psi total boost.

I'll be visiting a buddy this week who can weld cast to close up the ends on my manifold and to double pass with Tig over my welds on the exhaust connecting pipe between the two turbos in attempts to make sure there are not holes in the weld for gases to escape. Hope my next weekend is productive.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Interesting reading on the underrated starter contact accelerated wear. What CCA were your batteries rated for? Also, did you start with just one or both?

 

[boots4]

I was running 650CCA batteries and only starting with one. I had plans to link them with my isolator for starting but never did. The new batteries are 1000CCA so I don't think I'll need to link them for starting purposes.

 

[Pacer]

Not trying to open a can of worms here... but why the need for an isolator at all?
I run both batteries in parallel, just like the fuso truck my engine/alt came from. The engine is a little cranky in the cooler temps, but not the starter.

 

[mistyv6]

some starters seem to do that all the time we have a hough loader that does it every 12 months and that has really big battery's

 

[boots4]

... but why the need for an isolator at all?

For me, there are two main reasons I decided to go with an isolator. First I have a main battery for starting and an auxiliary for the accessories. I can pull down on the accessory battery during camping trips and not worry about not having enough juice to start the truck when it's time to go home. I have a fridge I'll eventually set up in the truck and that will be a constant draw during camping trips. The second is that if one battery is failing, in parallel without getting charged the good one will get pulled down by the bad and potentially shorten its life. I suspect this is worse with unmatched batteries. So I can get a little more life out of good batteries by keeping them in their own corners when the engine isn't running. Batteries can succumb to peer pressure.

Just to clarify my isolator (national luna) keeps the batteries separate during starting and for the first 5 minutes the engine is running (to recharge the starting battery first since it did the work). For the first 5 minutes after engine shut down they are still linked and are then isolated after that for the rest of the time the engine is not running (batteries not receiving charge). I do have the option to override that isolation on the unit to keep them in parallel but have never set it up. I'd like to have that option (on a switch) especially during really cold mornings to not tax the starting battery as much. Now that I have beefier batteries again, I may not need to as much as I did before when I was running lesser rated batteries.

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

For me, there are two main reasons I decided to go with an isolator. First I have a main battery for starting and an auxiliary for the accessories. I can pull down on the accessory battery during camping trips and not worry about not having enough juice to start the truck when it's time to go home. I have a fridge I'll eventually set up in the truck and that will be a constant draw during camping trips. The second is that if one battery is failing, in parallel without getting charged the good one will get pulled down by the bad and potentially shorten its life. I suspect this is worse with unmatched batteries. So I can get a little more life out of good batteries by keeping them in their own corners when the engine isn't running. Batteries can succumb to peer pressure.

Just to clarify my isolator (national luna) keeps the batteries separate during starting and for the first 5 minutes the engine is running (to recharge the starting battery first since it did the work). For the first 5 minutes after engine shut down they are still linked and are then isolated after that for the rest of the time the engine is not running (batteries not receiving charge). I do have the option to override that isolation on the unit to keep them in parallel but have never set it up. I'd like to have that option (on a switch) especially during really cold mornings to not tax the starting battery as much. Now that I have beefier batteries again, I may not need to as much as I did before when I was running lesser rated batteries.

Mike, I had the Painless dual battery kit on my last rig with the 2F, what are your thoughts about it with the 4BT?

I had mine set up the same way you have yours. Main for starting and secondary for fridge and other goodies during camping etc..

J

 

[boots4]

J, it looks like there are a couple of versions from a quick google search. Which version did you have?

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

J, it looks like there are a couple of versions from a quick google search. Which version did you have?

It is the 250 amp 40102. It worked really well with the 2F and 55 amp alternator...

I plan on adding a second battery once I get the electrical gremlins and the ignition working right..

J