- Thread starter
- #2,041
Me too, especially with the primary I'm going to run. I am planning to make some additional support brackets.
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Me too, especially with the primary I'm going to run. I am planning to make some additional support brackets.
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
I'm surprised you said you didn't gain any low end torque .. when I did advance my IP was one of my targets and indeed I got it .. different engines tho .. ( talking about 1HD-T in Marilu )
- Thread starter
- #2,043
Here are the turbos I'm playing around with for a compound set up on my 4BT.
Secondary/High pressure/small turbo:
Mitsubishi TD04HL-16T. It came from a 2001 Volvo V70 series that had the High Pressure turbo option. I used year ranges 2000-2004 for searching and I found this by doing VIN decoding on the cars I found in an online autowrecking yard that has a local store. They had VIN number pics on most of their listings and out of the several VINs I checked this is the only one that had the high pressure option.
Compressor wheel size is: I - 43.5mm, E - 56mm
Turbine for the "HL" is: I - 52mm, E - 45.6mm
This one has the larger 7cm angled exhaust housing with a 3 inch outlet.
From what I can tell this is equivalent in size/flow to a variant of the HX30.
It has an incorporated blow off valve that I'll be eliminating and making a block off plate.
There are alignment pins on the compressor and turbine housing. I removed both of them so I can rotate things how I want them to fit. While the exhaust side is wastegated (pretty much required for compound tuning) I did not get the actuator so I will most likely make a spring gate style actuator for control. They are easy to make and are said to be easier to tune for compounds, we'll see.
It literally took me 5 minutes to tear it down to this. The center spins freely and has little play so I am probably going to run it as it. I took it apart to inspect and clean it up.
Primary/atmosphere/low pressure/big turbo ideas:
Here's a comparison to the WH1C from a 6bt.
Compressor specs: I - 54mm, E - 82mm per my measurements.
I did run this before as a single in my truck and top end was strong but low end was not as great. It was slower to spool. Putting this compressor back on my current turbo that has a 12cm exhaust housing will pretty much get me a HX35. The HX30 and HX35 has a strong following for compounding on the 4bt as a good streetable setup.
Current 12cm housing specs: I - 70mm, E - 60mm
I, however, discovered some blowby from what is probably worn out seals on my current turbo (could be adding to some of my haze/smoke). If I were to use this, I would need to rebuild it (not spendy and not a big deal).
But... I still have this guy sitting on the shelf.
HE351VE - VGT
Compressor specs: I - 60mm, E - 85mm per my measurement
Turbine specs: I - 70mm, E - 60mm
The turbine wheel is the same size as the H1C/HX35 etc., but the housing is variable from 3.5cm to 25cm.
The compressor side of the HE351ve is similar to an HX40. For compounding a HX30 and HX40 have good results so I don't think trying to use the HE351ve for a primary is that far fetched. I'm thinking about running the VGT at a fixed position or allow it a small range of adjustment say 12cm to 16cm and run that to a manual controller in the cab or try out some spring gate action using drive pressure. It seems like there is good flexibility to get these two turbos working together.
The HE351 body dwarfs the TD04HL frame.
Playing with fitment ideas. This is why I removed some intake pieces and how I found the seal issue on my current turbo. If I am wise on positioning, I should be able to get the HE351 down below and keep the TD04 on top.
Secondary/High pressure/small turbo:
Mitsubishi TD04HL-16T. It came from a 2001 Volvo V70 series that had the High Pressure turbo option. I used year ranges 2000-2004 for searching and I found this by doing VIN decoding on the cars I found in an online autowrecking yard that has a local store. They had VIN number pics on most of their listings and out of the several VINs I checked this is the only one that had the high pressure option.
Compressor wheel size is: I - 43.5mm, E - 56mm
Turbine for the "HL" is: I - 52mm, E - 45.6mm
This one has the larger 7cm angled exhaust housing with a 3 inch outlet.
From what I can tell this is equivalent in size/flow to a variant of the HX30.
It has an incorporated blow off valve that I'll be eliminating and making a block off plate.
There are alignment pins on the compressor and turbine housing. I removed both of them so I can rotate things how I want them to fit. While the exhaust side is wastegated (pretty much required for compound tuning) I did not get the actuator so I will most likely make a spring gate style actuator for control. They are easy to make and are said to be easier to tune for compounds, we'll see.
It literally took me 5 minutes to tear it down to this. The center spins freely and has little play so I am probably going to run it as it. I took it apart to inspect and clean it up.
Primary/atmosphere/low pressure/big turbo ideas:
Here's a comparison to the WH1C from a 6bt.
Compressor specs: I - 54mm, E - 82mm per my measurements.
I did run this before as a single in my truck and top end was strong but low end was not as great. It was slower to spool. Putting this compressor back on my current turbo that has a 12cm exhaust housing will pretty much get me a HX35. The HX30 and HX35 has a strong following for compounding on the 4bt as a good streetable setup.
Current 12cm housing specs: I - 70mm, E - 60mm
I, however, discovered some blowby from what is probably worn out seals on my current turbo (could be adding to some of my haze/smoke). If I were to use this, I would need to rebuild it (not spendy and not a big deal).
But... I still have this guy sitting on the shelf.
HE351VE - VGT
Compressor specs: I - 60mm, E - 85mm per my measurement
Turbine specs: I - 70mm, E - 60mm
The turbine wheel is the same size as the H1C/HX35 etc., but the housing is variable from 3.5cm to 25cm.
The compressor side of the HE351ve is similar to an HX40. For compounding a HX30 and HX40 have good results so I don't think trying to use the HE351ve for a primary is that far fetched. I'm thinking about running the VGT at a fixed position or allow it a small range of adjustment say 12cm to 16cm and run that to a manual controller in the cab or try out some spring gate action using drive pressure. It seems like there is good flexibility to get these two turbos working together.
The HE351 body dwarfs the TD04HL frame.
Playing with fitment ideas. This is why I removed some intake pieces and how I found the seal issue on my current turbo. If I am wise on positioning, I should be able to get the HE351 down below and keep the TD04 on top.
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Unconventional, but it should work well!
Have you seen the custom HE351VE controller on 4BTSwaps?
Have you seen the custom HE351VE controller on 4BTSwaps?
- Thread starter
- #2,045
Yes, the previous Steed controller. I thought it was still under development from what I last read from the new guy so units weren't ready for sale. I do still have my electronics incase that's an avenue down the road but it seems like the compressor on the HE351 might be too big as a single on the 4bt. Compounding should get me around that. Hopefully this should get me plenty of air to clean up my fueling and fueling potential.
You are the turbo-diesel-tinker King!! I'm still learning about singles and although I get the concept of doubles I am way behind on the #'s and how that all works. With my widespread NV4500 its doggy in spots. I haven't pushed it too hard but haven't gotten over 1100 degrees..
I look forward to your progress and hopefully can end up on a run with ya and get a free ride just to see what all this Voo-Doo feels like!
I look forward to your progress and hopefully can end up on a run with ya and get a free ride just to see what all this Voo-Doo feels like!
Hey at least you're channeling the spirit of what looks to be the right company. If Volvo can pull 400+ hp from a 2.0L gasser, I think you should be able to get 600 at LEAST! 
http://jalopnik.com/how-volvo-will-crank-450-hp-out-of-just-four-cylinders-1643311981
http://jalopnik.com/how-volvo-will-crank-450-hp-out-of-just-four-cylinders-1643311981
- Thread starter
- #2,049
For the secondary turbo placement my original manifold wasn't going to work for what I wanted so I picked up a 1st gen 6bt manifold to modify. It was local and he let me have it for $80. Is was even painted a fancy red color (I'll be changing that).
I cut off the outer most tubes to turn it into a 4 port manifold keeping the output centered. Out of those chunks I cut out patches and tacked then into the open ends. I'll bug a buddy to help me weld it up properly. The outlet will be orientated like the above pic.
The 1st gen 6bt manifold is a T3 size. The volvo version of the TD04HL is also a T3 bolt pattern but the housing inlet is round. I am making a transition piece to provide a sealing surface for the volvo gasket to go in between the manifold and turbo housing. I ordered a standard T3 gasket for the manifold side. This was the easy part for adapting. I will need to figure out an alternative fastening method for the top left bolt since the manifold and the turbine housing both don't have through holes in that spot. The holes on the turbine housing will also need to be opened up a little to run the stud size on the exhaust manifold (it's a bigger size). This sounds easier than it is since the turbine housing laughed at my drill bit during my first attempt to drill out the holes. This is some hard material!
While the truck is not driven much at the moment it still needs to be drive-able dropping off the kids at school if the weather turns bad, or for any other emergency. Having a separate manifold to work on makes this easier. I screwed the manifold to a block of wood and cinched it to my bench so I can play with positioning and clearance. That way I can tack everything together and do a test fit to see what needs to be changed and keep truck downtime minimal. I played around a little with different positioning and something close to this is what I'll aim for. Being able to get some measurements this way helped me get a few parts ordered already. With the turbos in this orientation I should be able to get to the spring gate on the TD04 and the set screws on the HE351 for tuning purposes.
Tubing runs should be able to be kept at a minimum. A simple 180 bent tube will probably suffice for the intake side.
Compressor side: In a compound set up the compressor inlet on the primary gets connected to the air filter. The outlet from the primary gets connected to the inlet on the secondary turbo. The outlet from the secondary goes to the engine.
Exhaust side: Flow goes from the exhaust manifold to the secondary, then from the secondary to the primary, and then out the exhaust system.
The inlet on the HE351 is a hybrid pattern between a T3 and a T4 so standard sizes will not fit. They do make flanges but I'm cutting costs and making one myself.
I will need additional bracing to support the primary turbo. It also looks like I'll probably need to move some brake lines to make room for where I want to place the primary in the engine bay.
The HE351 turbine housing has a big bump that bugged me (seen in previous post). I couldn't see a reason it needed to stay so I spent a little time hacking it off and smoothing it out. I'm sure it didn't save me much weight but I did it anyways.
This week I am cutting out flanges to mate the turbos to the manifold and to each other as well as a cover plate for the BOV removal on the TD04 compressor housing and a plate for the HE351 water passage side.
I cut off the outer most tubes to turn it into a 4 port manifold keeping the output centered. Out of those chunks I cut out patches and tacked then into the open ends. I'll bug a buddy to help me weld it up properly. The outlet will be orientated like the above pic.
The 1st gen 6bt manifold is a T3 size. The volvo version of the TD04HL is also a T3 bolt pattern but the housing inlet is round. I am making a transition piece to provide a sealing surface for the volvo gasket to go in between the manifold and turbo housing. I ordered a standard T3 gasket for the manifold side. This was the easy part for adapting. I will need to figure out an alternative fastening method for the top left bolt since the manifold and the turbine housing both don't have through holes in that spot. The holes on the turbine housing will also need to be opened up a little to run the stud size on the exhaust manifold (it's a bigger size). This sounds easier than it is since the turbine housing laughed at my drill bit during my first attempt to drill out the holes. This is some hard material!
While the truck is not driven much at the moment it still needs to be drive-able dropping off the kids at school if the weather turns bad, or for any other emergency. Having a separate manifold to work on makes this easier. I screwed the manifold to a block of wood and cinched it to my bench so I can play with positioning and clearance. That way I can tack everything together and do a test fit to see what needs to be changed and keep truck downtime minimal. I played around a little with different positioning and something close to this is what I'll aim for. Being able to get some measurements this way helped me get a few parts ordered already. With the turbos in this orientation I should be able to get to the spring gate on the TD04 and the set screws on the HE351 for tuning purposes.
Tubing runs should be able to be kept at a minimum. A simple 180 bent tube will probably suffice for the intake side.
Compressor side: In a compound set up the compressor inlet on the primary gets connected to the air filter. The outlet from the primary gets connected to the inlet on the secondary turbo. The outlet from the secondary goes to the engine.
Exhaust side: Flow goes from the exhaust manifold to the secondary, then from the secondary to the primary, and then out the exhaust system.
The inlet on the HE351 is a hybrid pattern between a T3 and a T4 so standard sizes will not fit. They do make flanges but I'm cutting costs and making one myself.
I will need additional bracing to support the primary turbo. It also looks like I'll probably need to move some brake lines to make room for where I want to place the primary in the engine bay.
The HE351 turbine housing has a big bump that bugged me (seen in previous post). I couldn't see a reason it needed to stay so I spent a little time hacking it off and smoothing it out. I'm sure it didn't save me much weight but I did it anyways.
This week I am cutting out flanges to mate the turbos to the manifold and to each other as well as a cover plate for the BOV removal on the TD04 compressor housing and a plate for the HE351 water passage side.
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
ohh Mike this it's going to be fun to see, and to ear ..
Yes it is!!
I can't wait to see what you come up with for supporting brackets.
I can't wait to see what you come up with for supporting brackets.
- Thread starter
- #2,052
Worked on flanges. This one is for the exhaust manifold to the TD04HL-16T and is 3/8" thick. Since the Volvo version is a round hole instead of a rectangular hole I needed something in between to give the gaskets something to seal against. The rectangular gasket is just a standard T3 gasket. I found an import store around the corner from me that had the circular gasket for the turbo side. I also used a stationary belt sander to level the surface of the bracket.
This is the exhaust flange for the TD04HL. The bolt pattern is not even/symmetrical so I couldn't use a standard 3" exhaust flange plus this one has a machined lip to fit the turbo housing. This was an expensive piece (as far as flanges go) since I only found one place that sells this and it was shipped from Taiwan. This is why I made my other flanges to reduce costs. I originally wanted to get the downpipe from the Volvo that my turbo came from but there were complications so I sourced this piece instead. I think it's 1/2" thick.
Here's the flange for my HE351vgt. It's not a standard size and I've found references calling it a T3i, T4i, or a WGMT flange. I made this out of 3/4" plate I still have. Probably overkill but I didn't want it to warp. Cutting out the center section was no fun. I ended up drilling out the inner outline, punching out the center and then hand filing the walls. Since I was waiting on parts I had the time.
Finding the gasket was a little tricky as well. Here is the number that is stamped into it for future reference.
Cut out a block off plate for the Blow-off valve spot on the TD04HL-16T compressor cover.
Cut out a plate and made some stops for the vane control on the HE351vgt. This will allow me to run that turbo at a fixed tubine housing. I haven't decided if I'll keep it fixed or allow it to travel a small amount to allow a small range of variability like from 12cm to 14cm; I'd probably just use a spring gate for that. I'll have the adjustability if I want to.
Parts started showing up. T-clamps for pressure connections. A 90 degree 2" to 2.5" for the TD04HL-16T outlet connection. A 2.75" to 2.5" reducer for the HE351vgt turbo outlet connection.
A tight radius 180 degree 2.5" bend in 304 stainless for the intake connection between the turbos. This is the same size as the rest of my intake piping. A 90 degree 3" bend in 409 stainless for the exhaust connection between the turbos.
They don't offer a 60 psi boost gauge in the regular sport comp series (autometer) that my other gauges are so I went to a sport comp II gauge. The needle is a little different but overall they look pretty much the same. I'll have two boost gauges to help with tuning to see how my turbos are sharing the load. This 60 psi gauge will get plumbed to the intake manifold and read overall total boost. My current 35 psi gauge will get plumbed to the outlet of the Primary (HE351vgt). Using some formulas to get PR I can determine how the boost work is being shared and make adjustments accordingly. I'll probably put these in my dash pod and move my tranny temp gauge somewhere else. The reason I stuck to only a 60 psi gauge for total boost is because I don't see myself pushing more than that. From reading once you enter the 60 psi range it's time to start thinking about fire ringing or o-ringing the head and I'd rather not so to keep my head gasket alive I'll plan for 40s to 50s psi for boost with these twins.
Picked up another R2C air filter with a pre-filter to help it last longer. I like my last one and running it for 4 years in the conditions I see was probably a little too long so it needed replacement anyways.
Started working on the exhaust connection between the two turbos. I needed to tighten the radius a little bit more than what the original bend provided.
Got a cut further than this and then the power went out. No electricity makes it more difficult to continue fabbing. Power ended up staying off the rest of the evening due to some crazy weather so I spent that time with the family instead of using a hacksaw to continue cutting. Hoping to have the exhaust and intake sides done this week. Then I can start mock fitting into the engine bay.
This is the exhaust flange for the TD04HL. The bolt pattern is not even/symmetrical so I couldn't use a standard 3" exhaust flange plus this one has a machined lip to fit the turbo housing. This was an expensive piece (as far as flanges go) since I only found one place that sells this and it was shipped from Taiwan. This is why I made my other flanges to reduce costs. I originally wanted to get the downpipe from the Volvo that my turbo came from but there were complications so I sourced this piece instead. I think it's 1/2" thick.
Here's the flange for my HE351vgt. It's not a standard size and I've found references calling it a T3i, T4i, or a WGMT flange. I made this out of 3/4" plate I still have. Probably overkill but I didn't want it to warp. Cutting out the center section was no fun. I ended up drilling out the inner outline, punching out the center and then hand filing the walls. Since I was waiting on parts I had the time.
Finding the gasket was a little tricky as well. Here is the number that is stamped into it for future reference.
Cut out a block off plate for the Blow-off valve spot on the TD04HL-16T compressor cover.
Cut out a plate and made some stops for the vane control on the HE351vgt. This will allow me to run that turbo at a fixed tubine housing. I haven't decided if I'll keep it fixed or allow it to travel a small amount to allow a small range of variability like from 12cm to 14cm; I'd probably just use a spring gate for that. I'll have the adjustability if I want to.
Parts started showing up. T-clamps for pressure connections. A 90 degree 2" to 2.5" for the TD04HL-16T outlet connection. A 2.75" to 2.5" reducer for the HE351vgt turbo outlet connection.
A tight radius 180 degree 2.5" bend in 304 stainless for the intake connection between the turbos. This is the same size as the rest of my intake piping. A 90 degree 3" bend in 409 stainless for the exhaust connection between the turbos.
They don't offer a 60 psi boost gauge in the regular sport comp series (autometer) that my other gauges are so I went to a sport comp II gauge. The needle is a little different but overall they look pretty much the same. I'll have two boost gauges to help with tuning to see how my turbos are sharing the load. This 60 psi gauge will get plumbed to the intake manifold and read overall total boost. My current 35 psi gauge will get plumbed to the outlet of the Primary (HE351vgt). Using some formulas to get PR I can determine how the boost work is being shared and make adjustments accordingly. I'll probably put these in my dash pod and move my tranny temp gauge somewhere else. The reason I stuck to only a 60 psi gauge for total boost is because I don't see myself pushing more than that. From reading once you enter the 60 psi range it's time to start thinking about fire ringing or o-ringing the head and I'd rather not so to keep my head gasket alive I'll plan for 40s to 50s psi for boost with these twins.
Picked up another R2C air filter with a pre-filter to help it last longer. I like my last one and running it for 4 years in the conditions I see was probably a little too long so it needed replacement anyways.
Started working on the exhaust connection between the two turbos. I needed to tighten the radius a little bit more than what the original bend provided.
Got a cut further than this and then the power went out. No electricity makes it more difficult to continue fabbing. Power ended up staying off the rest of the evening due to some crazy weather so I spent that time with the family instead of using a hacksaw to continue cutting. Hoping to have the exhaust and intake sides done this week. Then I can start mock fitting into the engine bay.
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Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
so is ... 60 PSI .. your target ... ? ( just a dream in any Toyota engine .. )
- Thread starter
- #2,054
I think I'll try for something in the upper 40s or low 50s for target boost. As long as it burns clean, has good EGTs and I'm not overworking the secondary. With my injectors I think I can support that but I've also been reading about some concerns with bigger injectors so I'll be watching for that too.
Way cool, just found this. Compound turbos??!! Awesome! 
Nice setup with the trimmed 6BT manifold on the bench. The stock 4bt manifolds are such PITA's!
Still watching intently 
- Thread starter
- #2,058
Thanks for the excitement guys. I'm having to divert some attention this week to batteries since my current set have given up the ghost with the beginning of this cooler weather. None of my other spare batteries have enough balls to crank over the cummins. I cannot foot the bill for awesome batteries so I'm researching for mid grade budget stuff. I plan to get something after work today.
Bummer. I hate when a necessary expense gets in the way of a toy project.
I've picked up blem's at Interstate for cheap that were warranty returns or cores turned in that were good- Sometimes they have AGM's too.