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- Apr 4, 2006
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- 4,044
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- Hillsboro, OR
- Website
- www.cascadecruisers.com
So sorry to see this. Glad everyone is OK.
Sent from my SCH-I545 2
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Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
holy clamping force Mike .. glad both families are ok .. to be honest and seen those impressive ( curved ) marks on pavement makes me think you have the best of that accident .. just bend tube and metal in both Cruisers ..
I hope neither of both family members are scare from this experience to not keep enjoying nature over old faithful Cruisers ..
On a side note .. that's why I keep Tencha bumpers pretty simple and low .. in this kind of frontal hit that always bend those tubes over front grill, lights and hood .. good think are just parts that can be easily replaced ..
I hope neither of both family members are scare from this experience to not keep enjoying nature over old faithful Cruisers ..
On a side note .. that's why I keep Tencha bumpers pretty simple and low .. in this kind of frontal hit that always bend those tubes over front grill, lights and hood .. good think are just parts that can be easily replaced ..
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- Thread starter
- #1,883
Thanks David, there was some soreness the next day that wasn't serious but no one got hurt in either rig. We have done some trips since with the family so the kids don't seem to have any side effects.
The new front bumper is designed differently and made from DOM. The old one was only Hrew. We did a new rear bumper on Clint's rig that turned out really nice and has great lines also made out of DOM. I liked the last one on his truck and like the new one even better. I'm again tempted to build one to fit my rig.
The new front bumper is designed differently and made from DOM. The old one was only Hrew. We did a new rear bumper on Clint's rig that turned out really nice and has great lines also made out of DOM. I liked the last one on his truck and like the new one even better. I'm again tempted to build one to fit my rig.
Wow...
God is good. I've had close calls before and the outcomes in retrospect definitely involved divine intervention. I'm glad y'all lived to see another day!
I have encountered several bad and dangerous construction/flagging situations lately and there are rules and guidelines for such. Obviously those rules weren't followed. That is probably why no one stopped to see if you were OK.
Thanks for posting all of the issues you have encourntered. It is sobering to see what issues may come up when re-engineering your vehicle and how crucial these thing are.
God is good. I've had close calls before and the outcomes in retrospect definitely involved divine intervention. I'm glad y'all lived to see another day!
I have encountered several bad and dangerous construction/flagging situations lately and there are rules and guidelines for such. Obviously those rules weren't followed. That is probably why no one stopped to see if you were OK.
Thanks for posting all of the issues you have encourntered. It is sobering to see what issues may come up when re-engineering your vehicle and how crucial these thing are.
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Wow! You have no idea how lucky you are to have that access to those beautiful trails! Here on the east coast they would shut that down as fast as possible! Great pics
- Thread starter
- #1,886
Update
After the accident over the next couple of months I collected parts and started on the fixing. I tried focusing on fixing his rig first and then got to mine as time allowed. For me I grabbed a driver side fender, radiator core support (only used a headlight bucket off of it), headlight bezel and turn signal. Then a couple sticks of DOM to build a new front bumper for me and a new rear bumper for Clint.
During the parts hunting I found a AAM 11.5 rear axle from a 20XX duramax for a steal. It had be brought up previously that the newer style braking system that is disc with a drum-in-hat parking brake will work on the older 14 bolts like I had. I knew I was not going to go back to the current brake set up and brackets so I grabbed this axle for it's parts. For a brief moment I thought about just throwing it under but if the 14bolt is overkill I have right now this AAM 11.5 really is just ridiculous. Even more weight, even less clearance, it's just massive and unnecessary for what I want to do with my rig. Anyways I met the guy in a parking lot and slid the axle from his trailer straight over to mine.
Here are some pics of the disc brake set up and how it attaches to the axle. The assembly basically comes off with those 4 bolts that hold it to the axle bracket.
The pull lever for the parking brake.
The hub and disc.
That massive diff.
Once at home I used my engine hoist to move that thing around as it was too heavy for me and an averaged sized person to lift safely. By now I started to remove my mangled front bumper and start planning the fix.
I had a brief distraction of trying to get my old car back on the road for commuter duty but after a couple of attempts pushed it back under the tree and started working on the truck.
After the accident over the next couple of months I collected parts and started on the fixing. I tried focusing on fixing his rig first and then got to mine as time allowed. For me I grabbed a driver side fender, radiator core support (only used a headlight bucket off of it), headlight bezel and turn signal. Then a couple sticks of DOM to build a new front bumper for me and a new rear bumper for Clint.
During the parts hunting I found a AAM 11.5 rear axle from a 20XX duramax for a steal. It had be brought up previously that the newer style braking system that is disc with a drum-in-hat parking brake will work on the older 14 bolts like I had. I knew I was not going to go back to the current brake set up and brackets so I grabbed this axle for it's parts. For a brief moment I thought about just throwing it under but if the 14bolt is overkill I have right now this AAM 11.5 really is just ridiculous. Even more weight, even less clearance, it's just massive and unnecessary for what I want to do with my rig. Anyways I met the guy in a parking lot and slid the axle from his trailer straight over to mine.
Here are some pics of the disc brake set up and how it attaches to the axle. The assembly basically comes off with those 4 bolts that hold it to the axle bracket.
The pull lever for the parking brake.
The hub and disc.
That massive diff.
Once at home I used my engine hoist to move that thing around as it was too heavy for me and an averaged sized person to lift safely. By now I started to remove my mangled front bumper and start planning the fix.
I had a brief distraction of trying to get my old car back on the road for commuter duty but after a couple of attempts pushed it back under the tree and started working on the truck.
Great writeup! I hadn't realized the crazy situation around the accident. I think I'm due for a full brake job before we do the trip this summer. 
brakes and steering, brakes and steering...
brakes and steering, brakes and steering...- Thread starter
- #1,888
Update
So eventually I pulled the 14b from the rig, cleaned up the trail fit and cut it open again to get ID measurements. I found a 9" piece at the local metal pit and had the OD of this piece machined to fit exactly inside the axle tube. I then took it to a buddy in our local club to get some help as he has more experience than I. Here's a blurry pic of the sleeve being installed on the inside to strengthen the joint and provide alignment.
I beveled the tube edge, aligned my marks and tacked it. Alignment is much easier with a sleeve inside.
Did some preheating to make for a better penetrating weld.
He did a root pass and peened it to relieve some stress. He used a stick welder to fill in the void with three passes. Sticks are great for filling in bigger voids and making strong welds plus since it was going to be grinded/finished anyways the visual appearance of stick welding didn't matter.
After we finished welding up the tube and letting it cool we moved on to welding the tubes to the diff to eliminate any possible tube spins in the future. We used some nickle rod to join the cast diff to the steel tube. Doing some preheating here so it wouldn't crack.
After completing that we wrapped the welds to slow the cooling. Liked the use of welding gloves and duct tape.
On the other side where I joined the tube their wasn't any indication of fatigue but I didn't want to just leave it, yet didn't want to cut it open either since its alignment turned out perfect. The spring perch actually straddles the top side of the join and gives it strength so we decided to wrap a piece of metal underneath to complete the circle. Here is where he brought out the Tig welder. I got a chance to play with that at an earlier work party and a Tig capable unit will be my next welder purchase. I really liked playing with the tig welder; hardly any noise, no splatter, great control.
I pulled the diff cover to get to the joiner nut I welded inside after my shave and bolt hole elimination. It was lifting one side and ready to give up so we got that cleaned up and rewelded. Now I could tighten that down without worry of that nut breaking free. I helps having the right equipment to do the job.
With the 14b fixed I turned my attention to the rear brakes to see what I needed to do to get those brakes from the AAM 11.5 onto my 14b.
So eventually I pulled the 14b from the rig, cleaned up the trail fit and cut it open again to get ID measurements. I found a 9" piece at the local metal pit and had the OD of this piece machined to fit exactly inside the axle tube. I then took it to a buddy in our local club to get some help as he has more experience than I. Here's a blurry pic of the sleeve being installed on the inside to strengthen the joint and provide alignment.
I beveled the tube edge, aligned my marks and tacked it. Alignment is much easier with a sleeve inside.
Did some preheating to make for a better penetrating weld.
He did a root pass and peened it to relieve some stress. He used a stick welder to fill in the void with three passes. Sticks are great for filling in bigger voids and making strong welds plus since it was going to be grinded/finished anyways the visual appearance of stick welding didn't matter.
After we finished welding up the tube and letting it cool we moved on to welding the tubes to the diff to eliminate any possible tube spins in the future. We used some nickle rod to join the cast diff to the steel tube. Doing some preheating here so it wouldn't crack.
After completing that we wrapped the welds to slow the cooling. Liked the use of welding gloves and duct tape.
On the other side where I joined the tube their wasn't any indication of fatigue but I didn't want to just leave it, yet didn't want to cut it open either since its alignment turned out perfect. The spring perch actually straddles the top side of the join and gives it strength so we decided to wrap a piece of metal underneath to complete the circle. Here is where he brought out the Tig welder. I got a chance to play with that at an earlier work party and a Tig capable unit will be my next welder purchase. I really liked playing with the tig welder; hardly any noise, no splatter, great control.
I pulled the diff cover to get to the joiner nut I welded inside after my shave and bolt hole elimination. It was lifting one side and ready to give up so we got that cleaned up and rewelded. Now I could tighten that down without worry of that nut breaking free. I helps having the right equipment to do the job.
With the 14b fixed I turned my attention to the rear brakes to see what I needed to do to get those brakes from the AAM 11.5 onto my 14b.
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
Mike I'm already surprised of your trail welding abilities .. non the less how you manage to weld it more less well aligned with diff on and all weight over it .. pretty impressive in my books.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Threads
- 162
- Messages
- 4,044
- Location
- Hillsboro, OR
- Website
- www.cascadecruisers.com
nice job mike. Tigs are awesome.
- Thread starter
- #1,892
(finding some wood to knock on)... No. Here are my thoughts with maybe a little rationalization added in.
Everything about the short side came together easier with the welds laying down better on the first run. I'm hoping that having the outer sleeve (the spring perch and metal piece we wrapped over the joint) will give it the additional support to eliminate any possible future issues. The spring perch is straddling the joint so body weight is spread between the two sides of the joint. Then by having the metal wrap underneath spreading passed the joint it should prevent the bottom from opening up. There's just not as much leverage on the short side joint as there is on the long side tube's joint, and I suspect having the anti wrap bar attached on the long side potentially adds to the stress on that side since its attachment is on one side of the join while the leaf spring is on the other side. I'm still thinking about trussing the long side just for piece of mind. I did run Moab this year working on my Moab bump with a bounce here or there and had zero issues with the rear axle so I'm confident the long side was fixed better than the first time. Looking back at this I did see an oil moistening under the long side joint before it let go. I was fighting some rear hub seal issues and brushed it off but I believe that was a sign that a crack was forming at that join and allowing diff oil to find its way out. I have not seen anything like this on the short side.
If I do another axle in the future that involves tube work I would inner sleeve both sides from the beginning.
- Thread starter
- #1,893
Update
With the axle back together I turned my attention to the rear disc set up. I took apart the brakes on the AAM 11.5 and found how it was mounted and what fit together. I decided to make some new assembly brackets and not cut off the ones on the AAM 11.5 so that I could sell that axle for parts. I made a template, cut out new brackets from some 3/8" plate I have laying around, drilled the bolt holes and then took the brackets to a machine shop to have them cut out the center holes. The tube size on the AAM 11.5 is bigger than my 1980's 14bolt and I wanted them to get it right with more precise tools than mine.
Here are my brackets I made for my 14bolt compared to the ones on the AAM 11.5.
And here they are being tested on my 14bolt. The whole assemble bolts to this bracket.
There are differences in the hubs with the main issues being the backside of the AAM 11.5 hub being a different shape than my 14bolt hub. Same bolt patterns and the disc would physically slide over both hubs which is the way it is factory assembled.
Because of the differences on the backside my hub would interfere with the drum parking brake clearance. It may be possible to machine the back side of the 14bolt hubs to allow the clearance needed for the drum brake assembly so that the disc could be slid over the top of the hub like a factory install. Or it may be possible to use the AAM 11.5 hubs on the 14bolt spindles BUT that will play with the WMS widening it from what I have. ALSO I found that the axles themselves are different lengths than what are in my 14bolt and I don't know if that was all from the hubs or if the axle tubes are longer and need longer axles or if it has to do with the positioning of the differential.
Anyways, I wanted to keep my hubs so I was left with either machining the back side down or just mounting the disc to the backside of the hub instead of the front. This is what I tested out and all it means to the assembly is that the bracket I made would mount further in on the axle. There is the necessary clearance on the back side of my 14bolt hub to not interfere with the drum brake parking mechanism with the disc mounted to the back of the hub.
I'm getting spacing and seeing where the bolts align with my mock spring in the way to see if there is a better angle to mount the assembly taking the bleeder valve in to consideration.
I made my choice and pressed in the rest of the studs. You can see in this pic that there is plenty of open space for the drum brake assembly on the back side of the 14bolt hub with the disc mounted to the rear. This means to replace the disc I'll have to pull the hub but since the rear doesn't get as much abuse as the front and since these components are overkill for my application I don't think I'll replace these much and maybe just once during the life of this rig. I did have the discs turned before I did final assembly.
With the test fit a success and the angles figured out I tacked the assembly brackets, pulled it apart, welded, cleaned up and painted. You can notice in this pic that those assembly brackets are not mirror images of each other. This is the same as on the AAM 11.5. So you have to set up both sides, you can't just set up one side and then place the other side at the same angle, everything will be off.
For me on my C&C 14bolt housing the original drum brake bracket got in the way of bolting to the new assembly bracket so I smoothed off the edges. If you are using a different 14bolt housing those original brackets may interfere completely and may need to be removed completely.
So here is reassembly after I muscled the 14bolt back under my rig. Backing plate bolts to assembly bracket and shoes are attached to the backing plate.
Then (for me) the hub with disc goes on and the caliper bracket plus caliper (not shown in this pic) is bolted on.
Then it was using the same brake line hardware (banjo bolts and brake line). Being on the cheap I simply resurfaced the pads since they had plenty of life left and used those.
I do not have the parking brakes hooked up yet to the cruiser cable. I plan too but I still have that line lock that I can use for parking.
As for driving impressions with those massive dual piston calipers I think (if I remember right) I installed the proportioning valve during that time and made some adjustments. Braking feels good and overall feels a little better than before but that may be because I can step on it a little more and not worry about the rear brakes locking up.
With the axle back together I turned my attention to the rear disc set up. I took apart the brakes on the AAM 11.5 and found how it was mounted and what fit together. I decided to make some new assembly brackets and not cut off the ones on the AAM 11.5 so that I could sell that axle for parts. I made a template, cut out new brackets from some 3/8" plate I have laying around, drilled the bolt holes and then took the brackets to a machine shop to have them cut out the center holes. The tube size on the AAM 11.5 is bigger than my 1980's 14bolt and I wanted them to get it right with more precise tools than mine.
Here are my brackets I made for my 14bolt compared to the ones on the AAM 11.5.
And here they are being tested on my 14bolt. The whole assemble bolts to this bracket.
There are differences in the hubs with the main issues being the backside of the AAM 11.5 hub being a different shape than my 14bolt hub. Same bolt patterns and the disc would physically slide over both hubs which is the way it is factory assembled.
Because of the differences on the backside my hub would interfere with the drum parking brake clearance. It may be possible to machine the back side of the 14bolt hubs to allow the clearance needed for the drum brake assembly so that the disc could be slid over the top of the hub like a factory install. Or it may be possible to use the AAM 11.5 hubs on the 14bolt spindles BUT that will play with the WMS widening it from what I have. ALSO I found that the axles themselves are different lengths than what are in my 14bolt and I don't know if that was all from the hubs or if the axle tubes are longer and need longer axles or if it has to do with the positioning of the differential.
Anyways, I wanted to keep my hubs so I was left with either machining the back side down or just mounting the disc to the backside of the hub instead of the front. This is what I tested out and all it means to the assembly is that the bracket I made would mount further in on the axle. There is the necessary clearance on the back side of my 14bolt hub to not interfere with the drum brake parking mechanism with the disc mounted to the back of the hub.
I'm getting spacing and seeing where the bolts align with my mock spring in the way to see if there is a better angle to mount the assembly taking the bleeder valve in to consideration.
I made my choice and pressed in the rest of the studs. You can see in this pic that there is plenty of open space for the drum brake assembly on the back side of the 14bolt hub with the disc mounted to the rear. This means to replace the disc I'll have to pull the hub but since the rear doesn't get as much abuse as the front and since these components are overkill for my application I don't think I'll replace these much and maybe just once during the life of this rig. I did have the discs turned before I did final assembly.
With the test fit a success and the angles figured out I tacked the assembly brackets, pulled it apart, welded, cleaned up and painted. You can notice in this pic that those assembly brackets are not mirror images of each other. This is the same as on the AAM 11.5. So you have to set up both sides, you can't just set up one side and then place the other side at the same angle, everything will be off.
For me on my C&C 14bolt housing the original drum brake bracket got in the way of bolting to the new assembly bracket so I smoothed off the edges. If you are using a different 14bolt housing those original brackets may interfere completely and may need to be removed completely.
So here is reassembly after I muscled the 14bolt back under my rig. Backing plate bolts to assembly bracket and shoes are attached to the backing plate.
Then (for me) the hub with disc goes on and the caliper bracket plus caliper (not shown in this pic) is bolted on.
Then it was using the same brake line hardware (banjo bolts and brake line). Being on the cheap I simply resurfaced the pads since they had plenty of life left and used those.
I do not have the parking brakes hooked up yet to the cruiser cable. I plan too but I still have that line lock that I can use for parking.
As for driving impressions with those massive dual piston calipers I think (if I remember right) I installed the proportioning valve during that time and made some adjustments. Braking feels good and overall feels a little better than before but that may be because I can step on it a little more and not worry about the rear brakes locking up.
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Boots,
Holy Cow Man! This is an incredible build!!!!
I'm amazed at your resilience and perseverant attitude at every obstacle! It's also cool to see you out enjoying your rig with your family!!!
Your vacation pics got my wife excited as she can't wait till I'm done with my build so I can take her and our 3 kids out on the trail as well!!! I'm dropping a 4BT in a '68 Bronco. I have a ways to go, but reading through your thread is inspiring!!!
Great Job Man!!!
Holy Cow Man! This is an incredible build!!!!
I'm amazed at your resilience and perseverant attitude at every obstacle! It's also cool to see you out enjoying your rig with your family!!!
Your vacation pics got my wife excited as she can't wait till I'm done with my build so I can take her and our 3 kids out on the trail as well!!! I'm dropping a 4BT in a '68 Bronco. I have a ways to go, but reading through your thread is inspiring!!!
Great Job Man!!!
- Thread starter
- #1,895
Thanks for the read through. It's been fun getting out to new places and sharing that with my family.
I'm fixing some home computer issues right now which has slowed me down on getting my thread up to date again. I've got more fixes, a few more mods, a trip to Moab and a jaunt in the Sierra's in Northern CA that I still need to get on here.
I'm fixing some home computer issues right now which has slowed me down on getting my thread up to date again. I've got more fixes, a few more mods, a trip to Moab and a jaunt in the Sierra's in Northern CA that I still need to get on here.
I would caution on just relying on the line lock. I have ssen a truck that used one have a slight problem. the brakes were hot when applied and things relaxed a tad. Resulting in said truck racing down a mountain. You can visualize what happened next.
- Thread starter
- #1,897
Thanks for the word of caution. Together with the parking brake in the tranny I haven't had any problems but now that I have actual emergency brakes I can get those working too. Whenever I park on a hill I angle the tires if I'm there for more than a couple minutes.
Waiting patiently for more updates 
Wow, talk about scary stories....
It gets better. One of these days he'll post his latest adventure.