Builds Family haulin'

[Dirtgypsy]

Ah the consumate tinkerer. Videos from the Con didn't download properly on my confuser so if you get a chance to burn a copy for me I would really appreciate it. Also, let me know when you have a free day to get together to do some welding. Maybe a work day at Zachs for some tube bending?

How differently will Dora drive after the box is reconfigured?

Clint

 

[boots4]

It will shift as quickly as it did when you drove it but engagement should be a little smoother. Once the lock-up is working again you'll have to take it for another spin since when locked it's more like what it will be like with a manual.

How about a work day next week? I'd prefer Mon or Tues but could do Weds if that works best. We could start at your place in the morning and meet up with Zack after he gets off of work.

 

[brokenparts]

I'd be down for that... I have class on Tues nights and coach on Thurs nights. Other than that I'm game.

 

[Dirtgypsy]

Still in negotiations with the wife but looks like monday is a possibility. I will post up/ pm/ FB update later.

Clint

 

[boots4]

Gotcha, sounds like Monday would be the best.

 

[Dirtgypsy]

Monday is a go. See you in the AM.

clint

 

[brokenparts]

I went out hunting again for tranny mounts but this time I didn't come home empty-handed. I eventually ended up a baxter auto parts and after explaining what I was doing he told me I could look at his inventory for myself. Perfect! That's what I wanted to do but didn't know I could ask. So I hung out in the back opening boxes to check the size ( I brought my adapter with me so I'd know) There were a couple of choices but ultimately choose a pair of motor mounts. Since the tranny is heavier and I added another 80 pounds on with the doubler I think these will work out nicely. Plus they are similar in design to my motor mounts and it should better absorb vibration from the engine (that's what I'm thinking at least). When adapting parts together that weren't ment for each other KISS is a good principle to follow. After I found the mounts the parts guy thought it looked like a chrysler application but couldn't find the number in his book, so I included the number for anyone thinking about doing the same/similar thing.

The offset worked out to my advantage. I couldn't have the mount stick out to far passed the adapter because it would run into the front driveshaft (actually the crossmemeber would in order to accomodate the mount).

The studs were bigger so I needed to drill and tap to have the mounts screw in. I was thinking of bolting on a flat piece so that I could use a center mount but that would have made getting to the bolt holes on the adapter difficult under the rig. As it is right now I'll need to mount the adapter on the tranny first and then the doubler to it.

Mounts are on

The mounts also needed to be no deeper than the adpater to fit inbetween the tranny and the doubler. These work.

It took me all weekend but I finished the transmission crossmember. It was originally designed for the other mounts I had but those didn't work so I had to modify the crossmember in a couple of places. I probably just should have started over but I didn't want to waste the metal. I'll get better pics once I take it all out for painting

Passeger side. Big notch for the driveshaft. I also had to notch the top to clear the rear heater lines.

Driver side. This part of the frame is angled so the frame side mounts made up the difference.

Tranny mounts

The weight of the engine/tranny is on the mounts, the strap is not holding any weight I just tighten it back up. The engine mounts distorted a little bit so I might shim under the tranny mounts to level it some more.

Now I can pull it all back out and paint it. I will also gusset those frame-side mounts once everything is out of the way. I took some time building another work table for outside (got tired of working off of saw horses) and I had to chop some wood so the family could stay warm this week. I also finished my last bit of lining on the interior so now I can put the seats back in and work on placement for the shifter.

Do you remember what size tap you used? I might switch directions again.

 

[boots4]

I'll have to go out and look in my tap drawer. It's obviously course thread and the nut takes a 3/4" socket.

 

[chicago]

Boots...
Why would out opt to hard mount off the frame in lieu of using through bolts with a bushing and opt to run the soft mounts under the trans?
Im anticipating this part coming up in the next week or two.
I was thinking on using some shackle bushings at the frame?
How much stress to you think this x member is exposed to when wheeling? Id like to keep as high and tight at I can...maybe some 1x2, 1/4 in stock...However, if there is a distinct advantage to using the soft mounts off the trans, I might re think that a bit.

Keith

 

[brokenparts]

never mind... they bolt directly up.

 

[brokenparts]

Boots...
Why would out opt to hard mount off the frame in lieu of using through bolts with a bushing and opt to run the soft mounts under the trans?
Im anticipating this part coming up in the next week or two.
I was thinking on using some shackle bushings at the frame?
How much stress to you think this x member is exposed to when wheeling? Id like to keep as high and tight at I can...maybe some 1x2, 1/4 in stock...However, if there is a distinct advantage to using the soft mounts off the trans, I might re think that a bit.

Keith

frame twist is an issue for some rigs (especially without a cage). Most factory x-members are hard mount to the frame to provide some rigidness. Lots of auto guys that try running tube style mounts at the frame end up snapping the auto housing.

 

[brokenparts]

have your mounts gotten a bit softer mike? These seem awfully hard.

 

[chicago]

frame twist is an issue for some rigs (especially without a cage). Most factory x-members are hard mount to the frame to provide some rigidness. Lots of auto guys that try running tube style mounts at the frame end up snapping the auto housing.

Is this a common occurrence?
So how does this work...with the hard mount being at the trans/ t case, the force is unable to dissipate except at the ends yielding a break at the trans?
What if you ran a soft mount at the frame and under the housing?
Use a shackle bushing at the ends, and a thiner (1/2 in or so) rubber mount under the trans, or in my case, the 203 adapter?
Based on that information, it would seem that you'd want some give at both locations, no?

Thanks for the response!

 

[brokenparts]

I think limiting the frame twist is the part of the problem. Allowing the x-member to twist under a load is also a problem. When you have the mounts wider than the motor mounts it seems to me that there is more of a chance of the mounts deflecting further than the limits of he housing. To me getting a \_/ shape makes less of a chance of this happening.

Many people are quite successful running mounts a the ends but I'd also being willing to bet that those same people have highly rigid frames/cages.

 

[boots4]

The mounts did seem hard but with all the weight I have on them they do absorb the vibs, however with the lower stall on my t.converter I notice more vibs in the cab mostly due to how it lowers my idle under load primarily just in 1st at a stop light. With the engine running you can feel the difference by putting your hand on the tranny and then on the crossmember. You're wlecome to feel the difference at your next work party. I have bumped the idle a little more and that has helped some but that's just part of the nature of this diesel. I'm trying to balance the rpm idle loaded and not loaded. Right now it's 920rpm in park or neutral and 750rpm in first with the brakes on. Once you get north of 800rpm idling it smooths out. Manuals will notice less vibs behind this engine but I wanted an auto. So that's my vibs.

I wanted a system that allowed movement of the drivetrain to absorb those vibs but also keep it positioned since that is important for wheeling. When mounting, the engine and tranny mounts should be similar in composition to allow movement. If no movement is allowed and connections in the drivetrain are not strong enough something will crack or give. With the torque I get very soon in the rpm range that was a likely possibility so I believe the triangle method (engine mounts on the side with the 3rd mount centered down the drivetrain) was better than a square style (engine sides and frame side on the crossmember) in allowing more drivetrain movement. A hard fixed crossmember also helps with frame flex.

Brokenparts, I have toyed with the idea of drilling a hole or two in the rubber to soften them up. My engine passenger mount failed quickly because I put too many holes in it and I believe lost structure making it easy to tear. It was a suggestion on another site I tried out and I did this to both engine mounts but the driver side is still intact. When I replaced the passenger side I didn't drill any holes in the new mount and vibs did increase but the mount is holding up well now. So holes help but I'd start with less this time.

 

[brokenparts]

that's an interesting idea drilling the holes. They were not terribly expensive so I may give it a try. You gotta my new nother by the way.... it'll make you want to build a cage.

 

[boots4]

Clint got an extra stick of tubing when he picked up his so that will be plenty to finish the fender protection. Cruiser projects funding should be coming up in the next couple of weeks so I'll be able to get back into a few more things to get ready for Moab. Saw your notcher pics in one of your threads and it looks great!

 

[Dirtgypsy]

I have 3 sticks of .120 wall sitting in my driveway right now. I am eager to get going on the bend party so just let me know. Also do you have a date in mind for the steering box rebuild?

Clint

 

[bustanutley]

Is this a common occurrence?

Very


The proper way to mount a drive train is so the motor mounts locate the system torsionally and any other mount exists as a pivot in line with the drivetrain providing no real moment, just holding the system up. Using mounts at the frame provides huge leverage essentially hard mounting the drivetrain. You can only do this if you are fully confident that your chassis is fully rigid, otherwise parts are going to work themselves apart and/or something is going to give, in the case of an auto, the trans-case.

 

[boots4]

Do you remember what size tap you used? I might switch directions again.

I know you said nevermind but just for fun I used a 1/2" -13 NC tap to rethread the holes on my tranny 4x4 adapter to use those small car engine mounts.