Factory sub tank - sourcing and fitment discussion

[grinchy]

With the stock filler out I could compare overall shape. Generally the same with every exception. The fuel tube is 1 3/8 instead of 1 1/8. The vent tube is 14mm instead of 8 mm. It’s easy enough to chop off the Stock vent and barb a 9/16th hose into it (so no need to mess with the vent clamp, it’s a cutoff anyway), but there isn’t a off the shelf 1 3/8 to 1 1/8 barb I can find anywhere. Above 1” everything goes to 1/4” increments. I did find 1 3/8” fuel hose, but still need a way to gauge down. I will pull the fuel filler hose off the tank, maybe the tank has a 1 3/8 entry. The stock clamp and row fuel tank clamp are different part number at the tank, so it is likely that the size is different at the tank, but it’s only 25 min of messing with hose clamps to find out.

 

[grinchy]

The afternoon was spent trying to shuffle the new filler in place. I’ve got it nearly there. Every under body hose clip has been removed (broken off) in the activity. It came out reasonably easy, and I did pay attention, but going back in has been trying.
I’ve got the fill nozzle up into the fender and figure another hour or so of twisting should do it.

 

[Toyoland66]

With the stock filler out I could compare overall shape. Generally the same with every exception. The fuel tube is 1 3/8 instead of 1 1/8. The vent tube is 14mm instead of 8 mm. It’s easy enough to chop off the Stock vent and barb a 9/16th hose into it (so no need to mess with the vent clamp, it’s a cutoff anyway), but there isn’t a off the shelf 1 3/8 to 1 1/8 barb I can find anywhere. Above 1” everything goes to 1/4” increments. I did find 1 3/8” fuel hose, but still need a way to gauge down. I will pull the fuel filler hose off the tank, maybe the tank has a 1 3/8 entry. The stock clamp and row fuel tank clamp are different part number at the tank, so it is likely that the size is different at the tank, but it’s only 25 min of messing with hose clamps to find out.

View attachment 2598535

View attachment 2598537

so the flexible hose from filler to tank doesn’t fit the new filler? That’s good to know. I’ll be sure to compare part numbers for that part for sub tank vs. non.

I am looking now for the 200 diagram, but the Prado vents the main tank into the sub tank, and then the sub tank vents to the filler. In that case you don’t need to adapt the sub tank to filler vent hose, it will be an OEM part, you instead need to adapt the main tank vent to the correct input on the sub tank. I will try to verify.

 

[grinchy]

Notes for the next installer:
Don’t run any new piping until after replacing the filler
To take off the vent clamp reattach the filler pipe with the screw so you can pull against it. Better to just take it off before you seal with the filler. Take off the main gas hose to filler before the vent too

 

[grinchy]

so the flexible hose from filler to tank doesn’t fit the new filler? That’s good to know. I’ll be sure to compare part numbers for that part for sub tank vs. non.

I am looking now for the 200 diagram, but the Prado vents the main tank into the sub tank, and then the sub tank vents to the filler. In that case you don’t need to adapt the sub tank to filler hose, it will be an OEM part, you instead need to adapt the main tank vent to the correct input on the sub tank. I will try to verify.

Yes, it’s a 1/4” wrong diameter too small. I’m going to try to stretch it on, but I’m not hopeful. There is a row part number and clamp, but I don’t think it’ll match at the tank, just pushing the mismatch further down the line

 

[Toyoland66]

It looks like it does vent that way, but there is a short section of hard line on the filler that is part of that circuit, so likely the line is a different size.

the US spec vent line looks smaller diameter in the diagram

 

[grinchy]

The stock vent (single line on filler) is 8mm.
The new filler has interrupted vent and is 14mm.
Hard to know what they measure until you get access to the parts. I didn’t think they’d be different, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. The vent is main fuel tank specific, and it’s looking more and more like the row main tank is different at all the connection points, not only in design but also diameter.
And yes the main and sub are daisy chained for both vent and evaporate. Evap was definitely different but since I’m moving the canister I wasn’t too fussed with that.

 

[Toyoland66]

Yes, it’s a 1/4” wrong diameter too small. I’m going to try to stretch it on, but I’m not hopeful. There is a row part number and clamp, but I don’t think it’ll match at the tank, just pushing the mismatch further down the line

Partsouq shows 7721360310 for the sub tank equipped main tank filler flexible hose, and 7721360300 for the US spec one. Maybe the tank side is the same size? Hard to tell without ordering the hose.

 

[grinchy]

Yes, thanks. It’s around $40 shipped with the clip. The fact that stock and row uses a different clamp probably means the bung on the fuel tank is a different size. The fuel clamps have built in limit stops to prevent over tightening, so different parts for different diameters probably. I’m going to look at the bung on the main tank tomorrow and decide on a path from there.

 

[grinchy]

I think a temporary body lift will need to be done. I really need 1/2 to 3/4” to rotate the filler into place. Just at the right rear. Can I just undo the body nuts to the bottom (not remove) and jack it up? Where is the best place to jack the right rear body? @MTKID any advice? I just need it lifted for 20 min. . . .

 

[MTKID]

Thank you for messaging me @grinchy , I responded to that before seeing this. For anyone else seeing this thread and your question, I used MSCruiser's bottle jack on top of the tire method. This can create a bit of a dimple in the underside of the wheel well depending on how much you need to lift. Maybe you could place some wood or a flat steel plate on top of the bottle jack to help spread the load. I used this in combination with lifting the OEM LX side step support bracket with my floor jack. This isn't ideal because you can see the step deflect a little bit, understandably, but using these two methods seems to have worked for me and you shouldn't have any problem with such a small amount of lift needed.

In the private message I also mentioned a couple wire harnesses that I removed from the inside of the passenger side of the frame at the rear and undoing the underside of the rear bumper cover so it doesn't tear those holes out from the plastic.

Some day I may get around to creating a post about it but until then feel free to ask.

 

[grinchy]

Anyone have a metal lathe and want to contribute to the cause? I’ll pay for the block of metal and shipping . Aluminum brass or stainless steel would work. Only ODa and ODb need to be exact the rest is up to the maker.

 

[USMCVader]

Anyone have a metal lathe and want to contribute to the cause? I’ll pay for the block of metal and shipping . Aluminum brass or stainless steel would work. Only ODa and ODb need to be exact the rest is up to the maker.

View attachment 2601774

Dang. I have been thinking about getting a metal lathe for a while, but haven’t quite reached the point of pulling the trigger on it. This is the exact reason too, sometimes you just run into situations where just making a part is easier than scouring the globe to find it.

 

[grinchy]

Dang. I have been thinking about getting a metal lathe for a while, but haven’t quite reached the point of pulling the trigger on it. This is the exact reason too, sometimes you just run into situations where just making a part is easier than scouring the globe to find it.

the universe is speaking to you @USMCVader . Above one inch, increments are in 1/4s, and we need 1 1/8 and 1 3/8. missed it by 1/8".

Im still optimistic I can stretch the stock filler rubber 1/4", but this solution may be neccesarry.

 

[Toyoland66]

Do you think you can stretch the hose 1/8?

1-1/4" to 1-1/2" Fuel Filler Hose Reducers / Stepped Joiner Union

We Stock The Largest Selection Of Reducers, Joyner's and Couplings On The Market. Factory Direct Pricing. Ships Out Same Or Next Business Day.

www.fillernecksupply.com

Here’s another possible solution, you could have a bead rolled onto each side, it’s copper though so maybe not strong enough?

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[grinchy]

Do you think you can stretch the hose 1/8?

1-1/4" to 1-1/2" Fuel Filler Hose Reducers / Stepped Joiner Union

We Stock The Largest Selection Of Reducers, Joyner's and Couplings On The Market. Factory Direct Pricing. Ships Out Same Or Next Business Day.

www.fillernecksupply.com

Here’s another possible solution, you could have a bead rolled onto each side, it’s copper though so maybe not strong enough?

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

Maybe? Options right now in order of ease of implementation:
1) stretch hose 1/4" using the new filler and existing main tank hose
2) bypass the factory rubber filler hose and use an 1 3/8" that fits the new filler and onto main tank (have to measure main tank for fitment) - have to buy 1 3/8" new filler ID hose
3) stretch two hoses 1/8" using a coupler like this, that is 1/8" too big for both sides. Have to buy 1 3/8" ID filler hose as well
4) Build a customcoupler that requires no stretching, but still have to buy 1 3/8" ID filler hose

My job has been ridiculous since last weekend so I haven't even had a chance to try to stretch the hose.

I'm also a bit stuck as the filler is not going in easy, so I have to pull most of the interior 2nd row back to get to a bolt to enable a temporary body lift (I'll fix the fuel pump retrofit while in there)

First timer learnings . . .

 

[Toyoland66]

Another option would be to weld a short piece of 1 1/8 tube in the end of the filer, and just attach your hose to that. You could cut the end of the filler back so it ends up the same OAL, and even roll a bead into the 1 1/8 tube if you wanted to.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[grinchy]

Another option would be to weld a short piece of 1 1/8 tube in the end of the filer, and just attach your hose to that. You could cut the end of the filler back so it ends up the same OAL, and even roll a bead into the 1 1/8 tube if you wanted to.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

For sure. I ordered/have received the JB weld product for fuel tank repair. It is totally an option to chop off the stock filler end and attach it to the new filler end, by weld or epoxy. My welding isn't up to the standard where I would trust it, and paying for it would be the same as a custom coupler ($50 to $75?) But bonding it, particularly if the stock fit 'inside' the new one seems pretty achievable.

It's not reversible, so it isn't my first option . . . but if I can get the new filler in place then it becomes an option.

 

[grinchy]

Temporary body lift was successful. With an additional 1/2” was an easy twist into place. Holes line up!

 

[grinchy]

nervous 5 min.
What could go wrong, right?