F to 2F conversion questions

[93TucsonCruiser]

I have a 74 FJ40 1.5 with a bad #6 piston. The engine can be rebuilt but for about the same money I can buy a professionally rebuilt 2f with Toyota parts. I am not certain which way I want to go but have a few questions if I convert to a 2f.

1. I see where some people have retained the F intake manifold and carb. Will this sacrifice performance and does the F carb need to be re-jetted to work properly with the 2F?

2. Other than changing the flywheel and clutch, what is involved in converting to the 2F clutch i.e. linkage, slave cylinder etc? Is it worth the upgrade?

3. Any problem retaining the F water pump and crank pulley?

 

[Pighead]

1) Using the F intake & carb just works easier. The aircleaner and all the linkages fit back on better than going to a later 2F carb. Plus I like my mechanical secondary on the '74 carb better than the vacuum secondary on a 2F carb. I didn't notice any performance drop. Don't recall needing to re-jet.
2) To use the later diaphragm clutch you need everything. Clutch fork, fork pivot, throwout bearing and carrier, slave cylinder pushrod can be made to work but works better with the correct pushrod.
3) Crank pulley no problem. Sometimes not always easy to find the correct waterpump with the correct fan hub at your local autoparts store. re-using your F waterpump on a 2F is no problem.

1. I see where some people have retained the F intake manifold and carb. Will this sacrifice performance and does the F carb need to be re-jetted to work properly with the 2F?

2. Other than changing the flywheel and clutch, what is involved in converting to the 2F clutch i.e. linkage, slave cylinder etc? Is it worth the upgrade?

3. Any problem retaining the F water pump and crank pulley?

 

[Mid TN]

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but I'm in a similar situation. I have a '73 stock F. I just got a '70 frame with a 2F/4 Spd./Trans from a '87 FJ55. The 2F is the block, head, water pump, fuel pump, dizzy and starter. Will my intake and exhaust from the F work on the 2F? Should I just keep the F/3 Spd. in the '73 as is?

 

[Pighead]

Will my intake and exhaust from the F work on the 2F?

Yes..

 

[grant5127]

Should I just keep the F/3 Spd. in the '73 as is?

Ditch it while you got the chance....

 

[DSRTRDR]

I have a 2F for which some PO retained all the F intake/carb stuff - works excellent

 

[Mid TN]

Pig Head, grant5127 and DSRTRDR, appreciate the experience, I thought I could but guess I just needed to hear it from someone else. Besides the F2/4 spd./Trans is already sitting in the frame.
I want to do a SOA, Disc brakes and Power Steering while everything is off the frame too. I'm sure I will have a ton more questions, but I'll do a lot of searching first! This project has been moved three times in 6 years so keeping rack of everything has been tough!
Thanks Guys!

 

[93TucsonCruiser]

Thanks for reply. Do you know if the flywheel from the 4 speed F will work with the 2f diaphram clutch?

 

[Pighead]

My 4-speed F (the Late F) came with all 3-speed clutch stuff. Unfortunately, the shop that did the engine used a diaphragm pressure plate to balance so I had to switch to all 4-speed clutch stuff. I hear that the 3-speed flywheel is heavier and has a seat cut into it or sometnig...slightly different from the 4-speed but the 4-speed stuff will work if you have ALL the 4-speed clutch stuff.
So I guess "Yes".

 

[Jacobs]

No, the 3 finger spring clutch flywheel has a deep ~3/8" recess cut into the center, or a raised outer ring where the diaphragm clutch has a reverse step of about 30 thou. Your clutch/pressure plate is the same as a 3 speed, for whatever reason, and they are not interchangeable. 74's are weird!

 

[Pighead]

Yes, '74s are weird. But I was able to run a diaphragm pressure plate behind my 12/'74 flywheel without a problem...

 

[FJ40Jim]

I've said it before, will say it again:
No such thing as an F clutch.
No such thing as a 3speed clutch.

The coil spring clutch w/ heavy flywheel is used up through about 7/74. It is used w/ early FJ25 4-speed, J30 3speed and H4x 4-speed. It is only found behind F engines.

The diaphragm clutch & flat flywheel is used 8/74 and newer. It is used behind F, 2F and 3F engines. It is used in front of J30, H4x and H55 transmissions.

Both clutches fit all transmissions and all F-series engines.

Toanswer somebody's question above: You do not have to change a clutch. You can use whatever style you have on hand.

/rant

 

[Jacobs]

Both clutches fit all transmissions and all F-series engines.

Can you clarify that a 3 finger spring clutch will not work with a diaphragm clutch flywheel and vise versa? I know this for a fact but Steve (93TucsonCruiser) seems to have doubts due to your quote above.

 

[93TucsonCruiser]

Jim clarified that the flywheels are not interchangable.

 

[cuencanolenny]

On Monday the 18th of May, 2015 The Beast will go into the shop to swap my 1970 F 1bbl carb engine for a 1983 FJ60 2F. I am reviewing numerous articles regarding these swaps and just want to clarify a few things if you can help, I appreciate it. I completely rewired the rig using an American AutoWire Hwy 15 kit. My rig has an external voltage regulator. Will the FJ60 2F alternator require any adjustments/changes to my wiring? Can I just use my F alternator? The 2F has the alternator on the drivers side, just like my F. The engine does not have a fuel pump on it. Can I use the F fuel pump on the 2F without issue? The 2F has a different looking starter, I will "assume" this means it has the gear reduction starter. I will be using my F bell housing, clutch, etc. Will the 2F starter work? I have read something about motor mount bolts being different, larger on the 2F. The FJ60 right hand motor mount was way different and so I did not take them when I bought the engine. Can my F mounts be used by drilling out the mounting holes?

Oh, and if you ever do something like shown in the last picture remember this please. When the fellow removed the bell housing and flywheel, after the engine was loaded, he either didn't know or failed to mention, the flywheel attach holes are a direct avenue into the crankcase and "drained of oil" doesn't mean it is all out. When I got home I found that I had oil everywhere on the floor. Cardboard caught most of it but you know how "most of it" goes with oil. I'll never get it out of the carpet, the vinyl mat under the carpet or my tool roll which is stored under the seat behind the transmission cover.

 

[FJ40Jim]

If the plug from the F alt will plug into the 2F alt, then it will work. Chances are that it will not be that easy, so it will be necessary to swap on the F alternator.
The early FP will bolt on to 79-84 2F without a spacer.
The GR starter is directly swappable into a 1970 truck.
Mounting ears are different. Use the F ears, drilling the M10 holes to M12. The thickness of the ear also changes, so the M12 bolts that came from the 2F will need to be replaced w/ shorter.
BTW if the engine was shipped upright as shown, and oil was sloshing out the FW holes, it has all the oil in it.

 

[cuencanolenny]

Thanks so much Jim. Yeah, it ain't got no oil in it anymore!!! I'm still cleaning stuff, I'll never get it all out, I know that. Yes, we hauled it down as shown. I want to thank you again for your help and advice with regards to the cylinder head. It was just too much risk to have all that invested and then one person could say it was a used part and refuse to allow it into the country. So it was good fortune that I ran across this motor. The trip was great with no problems and the people were wonderful, truly a great experience. If the motor runs as good as everything went I will be very happy. I looked at that 350 conversion he did to the FJ60 and no thanks. What a headache. I would have liked to have taken his non-USA 5 spd but he did not have the transfer case (maybe used with the automatic transmission?) and also on Mud I read where the changeover is quite extensive and also results in a funky angle for the rear driveshaft. So I am hopeful that the new power will make life with the 3 spd more tolerable. I just checked the one 2F motor mount I brought home (need to return to the owner as the right hand side mount is apparently quite different from an FJ40) and the holes are as you said, .481 or 12mm. So I dug out a 1/2" drill bit to take with me when I drop it off. I had purchased 12mm wheel studs (female hex drive in one end) some time back as I could not find studs down here. I will check tomorrow to see if I can find two 10mm studs for the ends of the head where the header attaches. If not I will just have them use the existing end bolts. I also set out a tube of anti-sieze compound planning to instruct them to put a dab on the stud prior to installing them. Is that something you do also?

 

[FJ40Jim]

The end manifold bolts are M10x28, not studs. Don't use any more studs than just the 2 in the center of the manifold, as it will make it much more difficult to R&R the manifolds to replace the rusted-out steel foil gasket.

If using the F manifolds, the end fasteners are not usually required.

 

[cuencanolenny]

You crack me up Jim, don't think I've ever seen a M10X28 thread callout. I will presume you mean M10 fine thread though. I will finally be using my new MAF 6-1 ceramic coated header along with a similarly treated intake manifold. The flanges appear to be very close to the same thickness and hopefully will not require the half washer scenario. Is it your opinion that the manifolds hang up on the studs if using more than the two in the center? Haven't seen any cans of KopperKote down here to spray the gaskets with, bummer.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Bolt size is M10x28: Metric, 10mm diameter, 28mm length. 25mm also works.

After the intake is milled flat, the header should be welded or grindered to be the same thickness as the manifold ears. washers only provide a satisfactory result if they happen to be the correct thickness at every fastener (unlikely).