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Extreme 4x: maximum slope?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by e9999, Oct 8, 2003.

  1. e9999

    e9999 You want to do what...? Moderator

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    Hi all:
    never indulged in real serious off-roading but been thinking about the possibility, assuming I get the right rig, of course. Way back when, when I was misguided enough to go with Jeeps (ah!) I indulged in an inclinometer but never really put the thing to good use.
    So, if you allow me some uneducated musing, I would say that my gut feeling is that going up a serious slope would not bother me at all. Going down one would probably make me queasy, but what would really freak me out is to have to drive sideways on a serious slope. The remotest notion of the rig rolling sideways would likely be enough to make me let the wife drive the thing <G> (of course, then I'd walk :) ).
    Anyway, I was curious: is there any serious info (real tests, factory info, etc) available on what the max slope one should tackle is, for a stock rig (80 or 100) ? (I am assuming that a modified suspension, lift etc, would make things worse, so what about stock to start with?)
    thanks
    Eric
     
  2. woody

    woody unhelpful spotter Staff Member Admin

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    WAY too many variables....As someone who has flopped their rig on it's side numerous times, I pretty much get a "feeling" that I'm beyond where I wanna be. You'll feel it get light, almost a sinking feeling. You'll have a second-two to react and change your course or back away. Sometimes that feeling happens, then the suspension settles and all is good. Sometimes it gets worse and you go over.

    Controlled flop measurments are "useless" since no offroad environment is controlled. Slide a tire, hit a small rock, flex the suspension....all can effect your roll point.

    However, to get a good "seat of the pants" feel for the flop point, simply get two winches and two rigs. Put them on either side. Have one start to winch you over while the other backs off the cable slowly to keep you from actually going over. nearly impossible to do with a full body rig tho, at least not without damage from the cable...hehehe

    take pics ;)
     
  3. Jim_Chow

    Jim_Chow

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    I remember seeing specs on the 100 being able to handle 45 deg in stock form (I think that's driver only, unloaded). My guess is these numbers are mathematically derived rather than empirically, as they probably assume a perfectly smooth, high-friction surface. My guess is this is also why stock tires/clearance seem to be lacking. In reality, the vehicles are pretty capable in stock form, probably more capable than most of us think (you don't see those guys in Afghanistan putting lifts w/ 315s on their rigs, do ya?)
     
  4. Hltoppr

    Hltoppr

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    I'll side with Woody. It's an interesting feeling when tires come off the ground and you're on the edge. Usually your gut will let you know long before the actual event of rolling...it's when you have to pull the seat fabric out of your..... That's why many people refer to "pucker factor."

    -H-
     
  5. woody

    woody unhelpful spotter Staff Member Admin

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    "pucker factor" is the perfect description....I've learned where that point is...unfortunately, I'm no longer afraid to drive well beyond that, as my 5 flops (so far) in 2003 shows....
     
  6. e9999

    e9999 You want to do what...? Moderator

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    geez, you guys tellin' me that rolling the rig is just plain normal offroadin' ?
    and no damage to body? or is it that a true offroader doesn't care?

    but again, since I'd rather not go there, whereabouts is that magical pucker point? 30 degrees ? 45? what? anybody out there with an inclinometer willing to do the test <G> ?

    thanks
    Eric
     
  7. woody

    woody unhelpful spotter Staff Member Admin

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    lol...don't forget the variety of people on the forum...my 1974 FJ40 has no top, no doors, a 6-point cage, 38.5 tires, etc and is built purely and solely to run rock trails. The 80-100 series guys are "usually" more careful, since body damage is WAY more pricey than what I may experience. (Not that I fix mine, I usually just cut off the offending parts in the name of weight savings!)

    I had a inclinometer in mine...kept hitting 45 and not going over, so I pulled it out. Plus, when it really was ready to go, the last thing on my mind was "gee, I wonder what inclination I'm at....THUD!" :D
     
  8. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    Eric,

    As the previous posts mention, the MPP varies greatly and is difficult to pin down. It is one of those "you will know it when you feel it for real" things. I suppose you could get some sort of a baseline for a given vehicle by rigging a way to lift one side with some sort of scale between the lifting device and the vehicle. You could then slowly lift the vehicle while monitoring the scale to see when the weight starts to drop off.

    Disclaimer: I am not advocating this test, do not come crying to me when you flop yer rig in the parking lot :rolleyes:

    D-
     
  9. ELLTEE

    ELLTEE

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    I can't lay my hands on the thread right now, but somebody wrote this summer about the traverse angle on a LR dealership off-road demo course --- I think it was 32 degrees or so. :banana:
    (I thought the banana peel particularly appropriate there! :cheers:)
    The dealer declined to let a non-customer take a non-LR (Toyota Land Cruiser) through the bumps. IIRC, one of the Oz posters responded that the 80 series specs called for a maximum side slope angle of 40+ degrees.

    LT
    8)
     
  10. semlin

    semlin discouraged user

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    http://www.toprpm.com/eng/video.shtm

    check out the "2 wheels driving" videos. Notice how the guy initiates it in the second video. Install inclinometer. Do this a few times (arm dangling optional). Report back.
     
  11. Lars

    Lars

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    Maximum slope? Far more than you think!

    In my experience, pucker usually sets in much sooner than when you are even remotely close to tipping it. As someone mentioned above, lots of factors involved to make it a simple black and white equation.


    IMO, Inclinometers = worthless.
     
  12. fj40crusher

    fj40crusher

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    [quote author=semlin link=board=2;threadid=6086;start=msg48787#msg48787 date=1065644197]
    http://www.toprpm.com/eng/video.shtm

    check out the "2 wheels driving" videos. Notice how the guy initiates it in the second video. Install inclinometer. Do this a few times (arm dangling optional). Report back.
    [/quote]

    Inertia definately a factor in that video. Nice driving skills :D
     
  13. Hltoppr

    Hltoppr

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    ...and no, rolling does not have to be a part of off-roading; although it can happen. If you're going to be doing some serious rockcrawling, then eventually it will happen. I prefer the travel/trail/expedition type wheeling, which is what I've set my 80 up for, and have never come close to putting it on its side. My old 40s however, are a different story, and I've come close a couple of times, but have been lucky.

    Take your time and learn to drive off road. You'll get stuck a few times and have some fun and muddy experiences, but after a while you'll learn to anticipate what you need to do in a given situation.

    :cheers:

    -H-
     
  14. CDN_Cruiser

    CDN_Cruiser

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    PS, if you're trying it, be very careful with side sloaps (edit Sloap???what was I thinking? Make that SLOPE) made of: wet grass, grass, sand, scree/loose rocks, mud, etc...
    :D
    Cheers, Hugh
     
  15. IdahoDoug

    IdahoDoug

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    I've done my share of wheeling and sidehilling, but never come within 10 degrees of rolling. Point is, I've been at some pretty good lean angles but I'm conservative. Then, I had a chance to drive the factory Hummer course in a mil spec Hummer and civilian version - both very laterally stable rigs (guessing more lateral capable than the 80). Part of the course is a max lean angle slope made of extremely grippy brush surfaced cement, and I think it's around 35 degrees. To put it mildly, I was astonished at how steep it felt, and had doubts the 80 would have stayed upright on it. I suspect many feel they've been over X degrees, but a true measurement might reveal lower numbers. I've had 2 vehicles over the years with factory inclinometers and find them worthless. I suggest you play around a bit on a truck loading ramp and get a feel for the vehicle. That "feel for the vehicle" is really all you'll be able to use when wheeling. As others noted above, there are way too many variables in sidehilling to pick an angle as "safe". For instance, I might consider 25 degrees safe traversing a ditch while crossed up, but only half that safe when above an 80 foot drop on unconsolidated terrain.

    IdahoDoug
     
  16. Jonathan_Ferguson

    Jonathan_Ferguson ★ is in the wrong locale SILVER Star

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    I've been in a Diesel 105 Series with Rich Bates(Rally and Daihatsu Sirion GTVi GT Production Driver, Brother to Neil the Toyota Rally Driver ???) :flipoff2:, Drove it on a Gravel section of the Track at 45 degrees. :) At about 30 degrees it strats to feel bad. ;)

    Pucka Is what Jamie Oliver says, When something is good. :slap:

    Inclinometre If they were so bad, Why do Mitsubishi still fit 'em to the current Pajero, Challenger and Triton. :cheers:
     
  17. yomama

    yomama

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    [quote author=Jonathan_Ferguson link=board=2;threadid=6086;start=msg48992#msg48992 date=1065681168]

    Inclinometre If they were so bad, Why do Mitsubishi still fit 'em to the current Pajero, Challenger and Triton. :cheers:
    [/quote]

    I think that is the "rubber effect" you know? The feeling of security while you are being screwed :flipoff2:
    Really, who would be watching a meter while they are suppose to be wheeling, I would say if they were, then they deserve to :flipoff2: I mean flop....

    Yomama
     
  18. woody

    woody unhelpful spotter Staff Member Admin

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    [quote author=Jonathan_Ferguson link=board=2;threadid=6086;start=msg48992#msg48992 date=1065681168]Inclinometre If they were so bad, Why do Mitsubishi still fit 'em to the current Pajero, Challenger and Triton. :cheers:
    [/quote]

    IMO, it's like anything else....add a pair of cupholders, a digital tripmeter, power windows, and inclinometer, and you've just added $500 in junk worth $2500 to a buyer.

    It's a "look I'm kewl, I've got an inclinometer for the parking ramps!" kinda feeling... lol
     
  19. sleeoffroad

    sleeoffroad Supporting Vendor

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    This is what happened on a realy easy run we did a couple of years ago. All that happened is that I scraped the rear flare.
     
  20. sleeoffroad

    sleeoffroad Supporting Vendor

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    And this is where it happened. Truck slid sideways into the ditch and just rolled on it's side.