Expedition vehicle: 80 vs. 100
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IFS sucks...........
If somebody GAVE me a 100 I'd sell it and buy something else........
If somebody GAVE me a 100 I'd sell it and buy something else........
Wrong with what vehicle? There is nothing wrong with either the 80 or 100... well except the torsion bar IFS on the 100
I've never even been inside a 100 series, so here's my biased opinion of the 80 series.
My slightly modified (simple suspension upgrade and larger tires) 80 has taken my family (wife, two small boys) to the grocery store, the playground, and grandma's house. It's also taken me back and forth (40 mile round trip) to work day in and day out. My 80 has taken me, my family, and luggage on a 2,000 mile road trip--with a few days of constant 10+ hours driving. My 80 has also taken my family, 15 gallons of water, 10 gallons of gas, a couple coolers, and a giant load of other camping crap on a 200 mile 5-day trip consisting of graded dirt, two-track, rocky and rough roads, grade 3 rated trails, and a token river crossing--most days included several hours of wheeling.
It has done all of the above very, very well. The deal-maker for me was how happy my 9-month and 3-year olds were throughout the entire 5-day 200-mile rough and tumble backcountry excursion. That does it for me right there.
In reality, an 80-series is a poor daily driver. 14 mpg on highway sums it up.
This is a great summary of my experience with my 80-series Land Cruiser.
Hayes
My slightly modified (simple suspension upgrade and larger tires) 80 has taken my family (wife, two small boys) to the grocery store, the playground, and grandma's house. It's also taken me back and forth (40 mile round trip) to work day in and day out. My 80 has taken me, my family, and luggage on a 2,000 mile road trip--with a few days of constant 10+ hours driving. My 80 has also taken my family, 15 gallons of water, 10 gallons of gas, a couple coolers, and a giant load of other camping crap on a 200 mile 5-day trip consisting of graded dirt, two-track, rocky and rough roads, grade 3 rated trails, and a token river crossing--most days included several hours of wheeling.
It has done all of the above very, very well. The deal-maker for me was how happy my 9-month and 3-year olds were throughout the entire 5-day 200-mile rough and tumble backcountry excursion. That does it for me right there.
In reality, an 80-series is a poor daily driver. 14 mpg on highway sums it up.
This is a great summary of my experience with my 80-series Land Cruiser.
Hayes
Well, maybe. Though I agree that the 100 is a far more comfortable street vehicle, my "worn-out" 80 with 33's and a 2.5" OME lift on it handles much, much better than my sister's stock 2004 100. No question. I also prefer to drive the 80 around town. However, on long trips, the 100 might be the most comfortable vehicle I've ever been in. It doesn't help that I've got cloth seats and the bucket is worn out from over 12 years of me climbing my fat ass in and out of it.
I think the 80 is a great vehicle and personally prefer it. There is, however, little doubt that the 100 is more refined, more comfortable, and, if you have the side curtain airbags, safer. The down side of that refinement is that the 100 is more difficult to modify (in terms of money), more limited in the modifications that you can make (Shotts may beg to differ), and there's more stuff to break (nav system/touch screen). I also doubt that, as a rule, the V8 will prove as reliable as the I-6, but there will certainly be exceptions. Also, the 80 is getting older, and you'll really have to look to find a suitable vehicle, whereas you can just pluck a relatively low-mileage 100 from just about any dealership or used car lot. Both are very capable vehicles. I can personally vouch for the durability of the 80. I have had it since brand new and have beaten the crap out of it. I have not done any major repairs. It has been my daily driver the whole time, and has been thoroughly reliable. My maintenance costs, prorated over the entire life of the vehicle, have been stunningly low. Gas mileage sucks, but a Ford Escape Hybrid isn't going to drive through a river or climb a decent grade.
If you are looking for a DD, your best bet is probably the 100.
People laud the IFS as being greatly superior on-road. I don't see it. There's probably a slightly better ride, but I can't see it being night and day. Of course, I'm comparing a Nissan 4x4 pickup and a 4Runner 4x4 to the 80, as I've never driven a 100. Perhaps the 100 glides like a Mercedes, with a bump-less ride, but I doubt it. Marginally better, probably. I don't find the 80 ride to be harsh at all, in fact it rides better than most cars I've driven, let alone trucks.
-Spike
-Spike
I would not call the improved ride "marginally" better, but that's comparing my heavy/med springed 80 to a stock 100. However, I can still remember what the stock 80 rode like, and it was far rougher than the 100. I don't think it corners as well as the 80, though.
Yes, to clarify I'm talking about the ride on a stock 80. My wife's truck rides quite smoothly, I'm never thinking 'Boy, that bump would have been much smoother if I didn't have a solid axle'. I suppose I should go drive a 100 so I can make comments with authority. Or, keep my ignorance intact and enjoy my 80's.
-Spike
It's just different. I enjoy the *bump* I get when I drive over train tracks in the 80, but I am impressed with how the 100 soaks it up.
From the front seat, it does indeed ride like a Mercedes. Actually, more like a big Lincoln Continental. From the second and third rows, not so much...
This is going to sound like cheap psychology. The fact that you've posed your question here in the 80 Tech forum instead of the 100 Tech forum means that you're proabably leaning more to an 80. You could have read up on threads in the 100 forum about how great the 100 is as a daily driver, and how smaller size but not IFS vs SA is the main reason for the 80's off road capability. Some neophyte actually wrote this and probably believes it. If you think that solid axles (rear full floaters) and selectable front and rear lockers makes no difference in real offroading, then you should definitely go with the 100. Bottom line is what you value more in a truck: better creature comforts or better off-road ability.
Did somebody say my name?
I think the vehicles are just as EZ to modify for "expo" travel with the exception of 4.88 gears if the expo rig will be really loaded.
I'd not even consider a 98-99 at any price.
For "rock crawling" the 80 options make it more buildable depending on desire.
As for engine longevity? The V8 in the 100 has aready proved it to be more relaible than the 6. No head gasket issues, early failures and it's much better on oil comsumption. Both my 80's (at the 115K mark) use up more oil than the 100. Every few tank fulls I'm down oil. The 100 uses none (105K) in between oil changes...some at 7K intervals. The engine is over-worked on the 80 and under-worked more on the 100. There's several 100's out there already over 200K and trouble-free.
I know this....in a vehicle for a long time? I'd not take my 80's ever. Once you travel in the 100 you'll be spoiled. Me spoiled.
His topic isn't extreme off-roading. It's moderate and expo-style roading.
You sound like a "wheeler" like myself so your comments are noted and I agree.
For this guy's needs...the 100 is improved in almost every way over the FZJ80. Where he will travel the 100 will go every bit as easily as an 80. So why not enjoy all the improvements it offers?
It is more than mental. A solid front axle, narrower width, and front and rear lockers are more than mental.
FWIW I don't like torsion bar IFS. My girlfriend used to perfer to drive our OME suspension 80 versus her stock Nissan Frontier over rough rutted roads. If the 100 series had coilovers it would be nice, but who uses torsion bars on their luxury SUV?
Come on Harry. Don't compare a coil 80 to a T-Bar Frontier with the notion the comparo holds true against a 100. The 100 is no Frontier.
Come on Harry. Don't compare a coil 80 to a T-Bar Frontier with the notion the comparo holds true against a 100. The 100 is no Frontier.
Agreed. I just don't understand why the entry level 4Runner I just bought and the Tacoma have coilovers though and the 100 series has torsion bars. Even GM and Dodge have ditched torsion bars and they still use pushrods so it isn't like they are cutting edge! I really want a 100 series to be honest (GF wants another 80 but after seeing spressomon's 100 is being swayed) but the torsion bars are the biggest thing keeping me from pulling the trigger.
The T-bars still offer a smoother and more luxurious ride....so they say.
Me? I don't care. I just like the ride.
Did somebody say my name?
I think the vehicles are just as EZ to modify for "expo" travel with the exception of 4.88 gears if the expo rig will be really loaded.
I'd not even consider a 98-99 at any price.
For "rock crawling" the 80 options make it more buildable depending on desire.
As for engine longevity? The V8 in the 100 has aready proved it to be more relaible than the 6. No head gasket issues, early failures and it's much better on oil comsumption. Both my 80's (at the 115K mark) use up more oil than the 100. Every few tank fulls I'm down oil. The 100 uses none (105K) in between oil changes...some at 7K intervals. The engine is over-worked on the 80 and under-worked more on the 100. There's several 100's out there already over 200K and trouble-free.
I know this....in a vehicle for a long time? I'd not take my 80's ever. Once you travel in the 100 you'll be spoiled. Me spoiled.
Shotts,
There's so much poop in your response I don't know where to begin. But let's just look at engine durability, since that's the only (relatively) objective part of your post:
1. I'm not talking about your three cruisers. I'm talking about ALL of the cruisers, AS A GENERAL RULE. For instance, my engine has the original HG and burns very little oil (I won't even get into the fact that you have a LEAK for crying out loud. Remember your posts about the leak that you have? How your son's LC has a leak? Seriously, what does that have to do with whether the LC "uses" oil or not? I will stipulate that an engine with a leaky seal with "use" more oil than one without.), but I'm not going to say that "80's have no HG problems, and they don't use any oil." I also have a dent on my rear quarter panel; I'm not going to say "80's have dents on their rear quarter panels," or "80's dent very easily."
2. There are a ton of I-6's well in excess of 200k still trouble-free. I would not be surprised if the number of trouble-free 200k+ 80's on the road outnumbered trouble-free 200k+ 100's by 10 or 20 to 1. However, that doesn't mean that 100's won't be trouble-free, just that I doubt the reliability will be as high.
3. HG issue: How many people on the board actually have a HG problem? Anyway, the numbers have been crunched, and it's not an epidemic.
4. Your saying that the 100's V8 is more reliable is totally absurd, if for no other reason than it is impossible to know at this point.
