Ever Heard of FJ60 4Runner Envy? '86 w/3FE No Start Issue

[4Cruisers]

So I went out to move my '86 FJ60 from the top of the driveway this morning to make room for my '93 4Runner and I only got about 25 feet down the driveway before it died on me. It has an '89 FJ62 3FE and fuel/EFI system.

The 4Runner has been out of commission for well over a year, awaiting a new clutch and rebuilt PS pump, among many other things. I finally wrapped up most everything last weekend and got insurance and re-registered it on Monday afternoon.

Yesterday I had added a second washer under the FJ60's front drive detent spring to (hopefully) solve the issue of it popping out of 4WD on steeper sections of trail (and Imogene Pass as some of you SAS folks may remember) - thanks to @CenTXFJ60 for the tip. Other than that, the FJ60 has been running well. Both vehicles need an R134a recharge, so I was going to start with the 4Runner.

Well, I guess the FJ60 got jealous of the new competition, and decided to get even with me. It seems like the FJ60 ran until it ran out of fuel in the fuel rail. It'll crank over and try to start, but it's starving for fuel.

So far I've done the following:

- Made sure there's fuel in the tank - OK
- Jumpered terminals B+ and FP in the diagnostic port with the key on - couldn't tell one way or another if the fuel pump is operating
- With the terminals jumpered and the key on I checked the wiring to the connector under the rear cargo area fuel sender cover plate and got 12.1 V on my multi-tester - OK

Next thing I'll do is to disconnect the fuel line at the tank and see if the line is clogged. Last spring after not driving it over the winter I discovered that the fuel line was almost completely clogged, so I want to rule that out. If it looks good I'll add a section of hose, run it into a clean can, turn the key on, then re-install the jumper to test the fuel pump. I'm hoping it's not the fuel pump. I replaced it with a new Toyota pump when I finished the build about 6 years ago. It's only been driven about 4,000 miles since then. Dropping the tank is probably going to be a little harder for me to do now that I'm 70.

If everything looks good there I'll disconnect the line at the fuel filter inlet and blow compressed air through the line back to the tank.

If I do get fuel through the filter and into the fuel rail I'll connect my fuel pressure gauge to the cold start injector line and see what I find.

Anything else easy I should check into?

 

[CJF]

If I do get fuel through the filter and into the fuel rail I'll connect my fuel pressure gauge to the cold start injector line and see what I find.

Why not do that now? You're convinced you won't see any pressure?

 

[4Cruisers]

Why not do that now? You're convinced you won't see any pressure?

More than likely it's the pump, filter, or line - that was my issue last spring. Checking that will just take me a few minutes.

 

[cruisermatt]

all you have to is pull the return line hose off in the engine bay and see if you are getting fuel while key-on. No tools required. Even if it only has 15lbs of fuel pressure it will start and run. Not well, but it will

 

[4Cruisers]

UPDATE:

I disconnected the fuel line at the tank and ran a hose into an empty 1-gallon gas can. Jumpered the plug and turned on the key. I got almost a half gallon of fuel in 15 to 20 seconds. Relieved that it's not the fuel pump.

all you have to is pull the return line hose off in the engine bay and see if you are getting fuel while key-on.

Thanks, I'll do that next.

 

[4Cruisers]

No fuel at return line with terminals jumpered and key on. I tried several times to start it and it would run briefly then stop. Then it started up and kept running like normal. After a few minutes I turned it off and restarted it with no problems. I think I didn't see fuel in the return line early on because the fuel pump was still filling the fuel rail.

Any idea on what may have caused the no-start issue? BTW, there were no signs of a fuel leak.

I'm seriously thinking it was 4Runner envy after all, the FJ60 just wanted a little attention .

I'll post a 24-hour update tomorrow afternoon.

 

[4Cruisers]

Well, I'm back to the same issue. This morning I was able to start it up, and it ran well enough to get it back to the top of the driveway after moving the 4Runner out of the way. I had connected my AC manifold gauge set with can of R134a to the ports on the compressor and was ready to top off the refrigerant. It started up fine and ran at high idle, but just for a few seconds, then died. Now it'll start but won't keep running.

So I installed my LC Engineering fuel pressure gauge at the cold start injector, jumpered B+ and FP, and turned on the key. Fuel pressure is 39 psi, within the 37 to 46 psi value specified in the FSM. Even after 10 minutes with the key off it's still at 38 psi. So that initially rules out the fuel hoses and connection, fuel pump, fuel filter, and fuel pressure regulator. I can't complete the remaining fuel pressure checks because the engine won't start and idle.

What should I check next?

 

[4Cruisers]

OK, so I decided to check the fuel return line for flow with the B+ and FP jumpered, key on, return hose disconnected, and vacuum applied to the fuel pressure regulator with my hand-held vacuum pump (instead of intake vacuum manifold, because the engine won't stay running). I got a fairly slow dribble of fuel and could feel the slight pulsing from the running fuel pump. The problem was, the fuel was a milky white, maybe from condensation in the tank. So I'll drain the tank, partially refill it , and try to get it running as before.

 

[4Cruisers]

Drained the tank completely, and got almost a quart of milky fuel in about 15 gallons of gasoline. Refilled the tank with about 2 gallons of pretty fresh fuel. B+ and FP jumpered, hand vacuum pump pulling vacuum on fuel pressure regulator, fuel pressure gauge connected, and key on. Did this repeatedly until there was no more water in the fuel return line. Removed jumper and re-attached fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose to manifold vacuum. After a few tries it started up, eventually running about as it should. Fuel pressure is now a bit above 40 psi.

The water-contaminated fuel explains one of the symptoms. On both of the two days with the issue, it would start and run OK for about a minute or so, then die, probably when the fuel pump started pulling bad fuel that had sunk to the bottom of the tank. So it turned out to be a fairly simple problem and solution. At least I checked out a good bit of the EFI system along the way, and I'm more confident about taking it out to the boondocks north of town this coming Monday.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/garcia-canyon-1-jpg.1958698/

https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/garcia-canyon-2-jpg.1958701/

https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/chupaderos-mesa-2-jpg.1958699/

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Drained the tank completely, and got almost a quart of milky fuel in about 15 gallons of gasoline. Refilled the tank with about 2 gallons of pretty fresh fuel. B+ and FP jumpered, hand vacuum pump pulling vacuum on fuel pressure regulator, fuel pressure gauge connected, and key on. Did this repeatedly until there was no more water in the fuel return line. Removed jumper and re-attached fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose to manifold vacuum. After a few tries it started up, eventually running about as it should. Fuel pressure is now a bit above 40 psi.

The water-contaminated fuel explains one of the symptoms. On both of the two days with the issue, it would start and run OK for about a minute or so, then die, probably when the fuel pump started pulling bad fuel that had sunk to the bottom of the tank. So it turned out to be a fairly simple problem and solution. At least I checked out a good bit of the EFI system along the way, and I'm more confident about taking it out to the boondocks north of town this coming Monday.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/garcia-canyon-1-jpg.1958698/

https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/garcia-canyon-2-jpg.1958701/

https://forum.ih8mud.com/attachments/chupaderos-mesa-2-jpg.1958699/

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note : these wonderful photos below are from the links @4Cruisers posted above that encounter a glitch .....




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[ceylonfj40nut]

do you have a leak point for water to get in? How long was it sitting? Hard to imagine condensation causing that much. I would run good fuel through it on a long run to get any water out of the system. Injectors could get rusty.

 

[4Cruisers]

do you have a leak point for water to get in? How long was it sitting? Hard to imagine condensation causing that much. I would run good fuel through it on a long run to get any water out of the system. Injectors could get rusty.

It didn't have a gas cap on for a few days, but the fuel door was closed. We had a little rain, but I'm not sure how that much rain water could have leaked in.

 

[4Cruisers]

On a positive note, I was able to run it for a while at high idle while adding some R134a through my manifold gauge set. High pressure side was close to 200 psi and air from the vents is 30.8 degrees F. I've got 3 cans on the shelf in case I need to top it off some more later this summer.

 

[Godwin]

It didn't have a gas cap on for a few days, but the fuel door was closed. We had a little rain, but I'm not sure how that much rain water could have leaked in.

What about day/night fluctuations in humidity allowing condensation to build in the tank leading to accumulation of water.

 

[4Cruisers]

That could be part of the issue, we had a few moist backdoor cold fronts push through to the Rio Grande Valley to the Continental Divide.

 

[Godwin]

May be a good idea to change the fuel filter.

 

[4Cruisers]

I added one to my toyotapartsdeal.com cart.