Engine lowdown

[-Spike-]

I'm contemplating a 100 series for my wife in the future, to replace her 80 when I roll my 80 and need a new body. I'm curious about the drivetrain, and any special attributes it has- for instance, the 80's 1fz has a 8+ quart engine oil capacity, multiple tranny coolers, power steering fluid cooler, centrifugal air cleaner, and so on for operating in extreme conditions. The most information I can find in a search is this thread https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=13506&highlight=engine which doesn't say anything about the overengineering I've come to expect from Land Cruisers. I doubt the average Joe searching the 80's forum would find much in there about the 1fz without being an active member for months. Any information or links would be appreciated, even if it's just keywords to aid a search.

-Spike

 

[ace10]

overengineering? .... not much on the 100 IMHO

unless you consider two cabin air filters working in tandem with front AND rear a/c (on most units.)

seriously, i don't look at my wife's LX as much more than a REALLY solid beauty wagon. it's friggin huge, silent in operation and, unfortunately in our case, riddled with PITA minor problems. most are common, such as the cd/dvd changer going bad, subwoofer going bad, steering column motors going bad.... notice a theme? made me nervous enough to get a lexus extended warrantee at 49,7XX miles.

it really is a nice rig, but the electronics on board are a DIY'ers nightmare.

if you're really interested you probably need to set a budget and then zoom in on those model years. there are issues specific to each and every year of both the LX and LC, as the vehicle underwent a transformation from the more mechanical models (98 and 99) to the uber-techno-laden rigs of the later years.

 

[tabraha]

I won't get in to the quintessential 80 vs 100 but here's my thoughts on the 2UZ and some comparisons to the 1FZ.

The 2UZFE is proving itself to be a very solid engine without any real points where you can say "oh this was clearly overengineered" like certain components in an 80 or as another better toyota example, a supra. The engines are in service around the world as we have 100 owners on the board from most of the same countries as the 80 board. The thing is most of our high mileage guys are only in the 1xx,xxx range because the engines are still young, the oldest being a '98. I'm at 14x,xxx and it runs like a top and consumes zero oil and is capable of 12,000+ mile oil change intervals. To me the lack of wear metals and the lack of wear on oil are indicating this to be an extremely well engineered engine. We've really only seen a couple of instances of people that have passed the 2xx,xxx mark but they've all been pleased so far. One was even on his original timing belt!

Timing is a major difference between the 1FZ and the 2UZ and seems to be the cheif talking point. It's seen as a downfall but is more of a difference in maintenance issue. The belt's service interval is 90,000 miles so it's not something you are going to deal with often at all, you're already familiar with the chain so I don't need to touch on that. I also don't think the belt was so much of a downgrade; most high tolerance multi-valve modern engines run a belt for it's higher precision and smoothness. We have yet to hear of a t-belt failure from any member of the board either.

It appears that the starter is the only real point of contention with the 2UZ that a higher than normal amount of owners are dealing with. It is not seeing the life cycle that it should be. Most are experiencing the contacts wearing between 80k-110k. It's a PITA to change but is a cheap item. A similar situation to headgaskets on an 80. The gasket is el-cheapo but getting to it is not alot of fun. It cost me about $20 in parts from CDan IIRC and took 0.5-1 day to take care of. No more than 0.5 day if you have a helper.

That's pretty much all that comes to my mind although I'm sure there's stuff I've forgotten. I'm only on coffee #1 this morning so I'm not fully functional yet.

Bottom line alot of the overengineered 1FZE items like increased sump capacities, and multiple coolers have been replaced by more efficent engineering designs of the times. The 2UZ has no need for any bigger sump (7.2qt) if it's already 12,000mile OCI capable; it's design is just easier on the oil to start with. I live down a dusty gravel road and have no problems with dust/silicates in the engine oil so I can't see where the air box needs to move to cyclonic action. I've never heard of trannies overheating on a 100 (2UZ has a single tranny cooler AFAIK) and there are plenty of us that haul some VERY large toys to pull behind them. The 1FZE would pull some of said toys but it would definitely let you know it alot sooner and do it alot slower! Pretty much with the 2UZ what we're seeing so far is change the oil, t-belt, and starter contacts and keep on rollin'. Unfortuately it just doesn't have a list of selling points to talk about other than being reliable.

Hope this helps.

 

[-Spike-]

Yes, thank you VERY much for not making this a comparison to the 80- that was not my intention. I just mentioned the 1fz as an example of the information I was looking for.

7.2 quarts is, in my estimation, a larger than 'normal' capacity when I'm used to 4 and 5 quart capacities on most vehicles. The lack of metals in oil in working engines is certainly evidence that something has been done right. Timing belts have never bothered me as changing them is a good excuse to do a bunch of maintenance that most engines need (and many chain-driven engines don't get) at about that interval- and I have never heard of a timing belt on any vehicle failing before it's recommended change (although I'm sure it's happened, just not often, and certainly not on a Toyota!). Is the ignition coil seperate or located on each spark plug? Any other engine/drivetrain features I might not be accustomed to on older vehicles?
I'm definitely in the 'simple is better' crowd, which goes well with my distaste for high depreciation hits, so I will most likely be looking for an early model. Anything to look for in particular in those? I have seen a front diff explode on a '99 going over a very moderate obstacle, and have heard the fix is an ARB. I assume the diff will be fine under my wife, but will want to upgrade to the locker if I decide to run the truck offroad. Any other similar concerns, on any year?

-Spike

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Everyone knows my feelings on this. I don't think "overall" that the two series even compare. Seriously.

Sure, the smaller and SFA 80 has the off-road "capability" edge.

In every other way however one can find out how much improved the 100 is over the 80. One drive. Especially an off-road drive.

Solidity of the frame (50%)
Power delivery
Quietness
A/C
Safety
Blah, blah.....EVERYTHING has been improved. And actually....one would expect it to be. It's 7-years newer technology. The manufacturers learn things and impliment them. I'd expect the same out of the next series. With all the so-called reported HP on hand they must beef up the thing even further.

Look at all the 80 threads on overheating and A/C issues. Zero on the 100. Head gaskets on the 80. Zero on the 100. OK, the 100 has some starter issues, some manifold corrections, and 98-99 have front diff issues. Aside from these few things the 100 is a more reliable beast.

Brakes? The 80 sucks and in my book is downright dangerous. The 100's are world class and that's with 35's on board. The 100's brakes even work if your engine dies. 100% power.

Engine-wise....I have a few observations. Excessive heat and oil consumption are engine life enemies. My 100 now at 110K uses not a 1/4 of a quart of oil at a 5-7K mile oil change interval. My 80's at 115K and 129K (when bought) used almost a quart every road trip. The 80's get hot and run hot. Especially the '97. The 100 never breaks a sweat no matter what you do.

In conclusion...the off-road ride (not capability)....While the 80's creak and rattle (not inside...I speak of external build observations) over the bumps, the roofs make noise and the gates crack when flexed out, the 100 is silent, there's no frame flexing, everything is so tight....you can tell instantly it's a much better built vehicle.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Yes, thank you VERY much for not making this a comparison to the 80- that was not my intention. I just mentioned the 1fz as an example of the information I was looking for.

7.2 quarts is, in my estimation, a larger than 'normal' capacity when I'm used to 4 and 5 quart capacities on most vehicles. The lack of metals in oil in working engines is certainly evidence that something has been done right. Timing belts have never bothered me as changing them is a good excuse to do a bunch of maintenance that most engines need (and many chain-driven engines don't get) at about that interval- and I have never heard of a timing belt on any vehicle failing before it's recommended change (although I'm sure it's happened, just not often, and certainly not on a Toyota!). Is the ignition coil seperate or located on each spark plug? Any other engine/drivetrain features I might not be accustomed to on older vehicles?
I'm definitely in the 'simple is better' crowd, which goes well with my distaste for high depreciation hits, so I will most likely be looking for an early model. Anything to look for in particular in those? I have seen a front diff explode on a '99 going over a very moderate obstacle, and have heard the fix is an ARB. I assume the diff will be fine under my wife, but will want to upgrade to the locker if I decide to run the truck offroad. Any other similar concerns, on any year?

-Spike

I broke a timing belt in a Mazda Protege at 78K miles. Thank God the Protege/Miata motors are free wheeling. No engine damage. I was extremly hard on this vehicle though. It lived at red line.

The 100's motor is not free-wheeling. You break a belt you likely get damage.

As for 100 years. Everyone knows I'm very anti 98-99. Mainly because of safety. The 98-99 was ruled un-safe by CR. In stock form they tipped on two wheels in avoidance manuevers and roll bars saved the rig. In 2000 the vehicle was deemed safe and then was recommended when VSC was introduced. All wheels stayed planted on the same test.

Add in TRAC and a better front diff and you have a win-win situation.

 

[hoser]

Is the ignition coil seperate or located on each spark plug? Any other engine/drivetrain features I might not be accustomed to on older vehicles?

This article has some mention of the drivetrain features.

Automotive Industries, Feb. 1998, by Lindsay Brook

Yes, each cylinder has its own coil pack positioned on top of each spark plug. A little more work to change spark plugs but at 120k intervals, its no big deal. Besides the usual benefits of individual coil packs, if one fails, it won't leave you stranded--just underpowered.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Just noticed the thread "title" on my email notification. Sorry Spike. I though you were dicussing overall build quality. I see it's just the engine, etc.

One other thing on that engine/driveline topic:

Power steering...you'll not experience the same weakness with the 100. It never fights you over the large rocks and the like. It's beefed up.

On the steering side...I'm on my 3rd steering rack in the 100 ($800 total cost each). While the steering is greatly improved on the 100, the durability (for me) running 35's and off-roading has lessened.

 

[-Spike-]

This article has some mention of the drivetrain features.

Automotive Industries, Feb. 1998, by Lindsay Brook

Thank you sir, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Holy crap, water pump and starter WHERE? I guess those are part of the timing belt maintenance schedule.

-Spike

 

[ZJ2UZJ100]

The starter is nestled between the V-banks on TOP of the engine......but UNDER the intake manifold. Kind of a byatch to get at. Search this forum for Starter + Contacts and you will get edumacated on one of the more likely repairs you will face.

My experience with our 2000 TLC engine:

Smoothest engine I've ever had. hot/cold/idle/WOT.
70K miles and no oil consumption/smoke/blow-by. Found a few drops of oil in the air intake manifold (when changing the starter!)

Standard rectangular air filter/airbox seems to work just fine.
Both exhaust manifolds replaced over time; gasket leaks and cracks.
Haven't bothered with plugs yet. Still pulling well.

Great truck. Trying to convince my wife she doesn't need a new one.

 

[hoser]

Spike, just FYI, the Cyclonic (or centrifugal) air cleaner was standard on Aussie and Middle Eastern 100's. US and Japan didn't get them. I've been trying to locate one with no luck.

 

[Thanatoz]

Spike, just FYI, the Cyclonic (or centrifugal) air cleaner was standard on Aussie and Middle Eastern 100's. US and Japan didn't get them. I've been trying to locate one with no luck.

So the round air cleaner with the dust pan on the passenger side of the 80s is not considered the centrifugal air cleaner? I was there when Spike went to change his air filter (more like bang it on the side of the truck and stick it back in) and we both were impressed with the amount of dirt and debris that was in the bottom of the canister, and even the dust tray that was choked full of Arizona dirt. But all that means is, it wasn't in the filter, which is always a good thing.

***EDIT***

NM, I see now you meant the 100s didn't get it. /smacks head

 

[Jim_Chow]

So the round air cleaner with the dust pan on the passenger side of the 80s is not considered the centrifugal air cleaner? I was there when Spike went to change his air filter (more like bang it on the side of the truck and stick it back in) and we both were impressed with the amount of dirt and debris that was in the bottom of the canister, and even the dust tray that was choked full of Arizona dirt. But all that means is, it wasn't in the filter, which is always a good thing.

***EDIT***

NM, I see now you meant the 100s didn't get it. /smacks head

Yes, the round one is the centrifugal air cleaner. All the 100 TD's I've seen have them, too (not sure why all TD's would have them, even JDM ones, but only MidEast and Oz spec (and I'd assume, African) have the round ones for the V8). So even if you could locate a round one (and the brackets/hoses to relocate the power steering resevoir and new air hose from the filter box to intake), where do you buy the filters? Do they work w/ the HDJ100 filters? Maybe someone like Siglo could answer this. The 100 TD round box has the hose exit from the bottom (I guess going to the turbo?), so you can't exactly use it for a V8. The nice thing about running the round filter box is there is now plenty of space for a dual battery setup in the right side front corner. There seems to be too much wasted space in there. Bottom line is, in N. America, it's probably not worth the effort to source the parts and install one, as we typically don't see that much dust (and if you do, you should have a snorkel w/ dust filter up top).

 

[-Spike-]

I guess I'll have to get a snorkel for a 100 if I end up with one I run on trails. Arizona is very dusty, especially if you're not leading the group. I've been impressed with the cyclonic box- as Thanatoz said, there's a lot of dirt in the collector, but not much in the filter. A standard air cleaner obviously works, the cyclonic just seems to work better. Not that less dirt gets into the engine, just less dirt clogging the filter, and less worry about 'did I check my air filter in the last thousand miles?'.

I ridicule people with snorkels, so there's gonna be a lot of people laughing at me around here if I ever put a 100 on a trail.

-Spike

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I ridicule people with snorkels, so there's gonna be a lot of people laughing at me around here if I ever put a 100 on a trail.

-Spike

Oh my.....pay backs!

 

[uHu]

Yes, the round one is the centrifugal air cleaner. All the 100 TD's I've seen have them, too (not sure why all TD's would have them, even JDM ones, but only MidEast and Oz spec (and I'd assume, African) have the round ones for the V8). So even if you could locate a round one (and the brackets/hoses to relocate the power steering resevoir and new air hose from the filter box to intake), where do you buy the filters? Do they work w/ the HDJ100 filters? Maybe someone like Siglo could answer this. The 100 TD round box has the hose exit from the bottom (I guess going to the turbo?), so you can't exactly use it for a V8. The nice thing about running the round filter box is there is now plenty of space for a dual battery setup in the right side front corner. There seems to be too much wasted space in there. Bottom line is, in N. America, it's probably not worth the effort to source the parts and install one, as we typically don't see that much dust (and if you do, you should have a snorkel w/ dust filter up top).

The 100 TD does have a round filter/box, but it's not the same centrifugal (or cyclonic as Toyota calls it) type as on my 80. The air intake has a tangential angle though, so I suppose there is some centrifugal action in there.
The 80's steel filter box is very practical in dusty areas, with the dust collector/cup under that you can empty with one hand after every desert trip.

Here's a pic of the 100 TD... (Yes, time for washing)

 

[NMuzj100]

The 4.7L V8 is proving to be a great engine.

Only issues
- Starter wear/ bad location
- exhaust manifold cracks
- TBS issues (somewhat rare/still not that well understood)

This engine is in the 100, LX470, GX470, 4Runner, Taco, Tundra and Sequoia so I would say it has proven itself as far as Toyota is concerned. I expect it will be offered in the FJ too in a few years.

7.2 QT is a large sump and the engine also has an oil cooler. All 100s have a tranny oil cooler. I think the stock US air intake with it's in fender intake does a pretty good job of dealing with the dust. No issues with filter longevity or performance in dusty New Mexico.

 

[Jim_Chow]

The 1FZ also suffers from starter contact wear ~80-100K mi, but it's more accessible. I guess it's because it's an inline engine rather than a V design? Where else could toyota have put the starter in the 2UZ?

 

[-Spike-]

I'm sure there's something special about the2UZ that required an odd location for the starter, but it's not the fact that it's a 'V' engine. The traditional spot for the starter is the side of the block- inline or 'V'. Probably had something to do with location of suspension components.

-Spike

 

[NMuzj100]

I'm sure there's something special about the2UZ that required an odd location for the starter, but it's not the fact that it's a 'V' engine. The traditional spot for the starter is the side of the block- inline or 'V'. Probably had something to do with location of suspension components.

I'm pretty sure it had more to do with keeping the total "package" small enough to fit into the smaller Taco and 120series vehicles.