Engine hesitation

[Groucho263]

I would disconnect and plug off the line that goes to the distributor, the distributor you have is a vacumn retard. it would be better not to have it hooked up than to have it hooked up. Just to make sure I do the right thing, you are talking about the line from the distributor to the carb, correct?

interesting your exhaust from the manifold down is 79-80 vintage. Yeah, the engine is a 1980 and the body is a 1975. The PO did that.

those compression #'s are very low. all plugs out and throttle open when testing. Yeah, I realized when I read that other thread that I did the compression test wrong. I'll redo it. When they say throttle open, does that mean accelerator all the way to the floor?

 

[Groucho263]

How is the valve stuck? Like it won't close? When I adjusted the valves (in May...I have put about 100 miles on it since then while I fixed other things), either the rocker arm or valve was stuck. First video shows the before, the second video shows the after I did the valve adjustment and the valves working correctly.

 

[3_puppies]

I would disconnect and plug off the line that goes to the distributor, the distributor you have is a vacumn retard. it would be better not to have it hooked up than to have it hooked up. Just to make sure I do the right thing, you are talking about the line from the distributor to the carb, correct?

interesting your exhaust from the manifold down is 79-80 vintage. Yeah, the engine is a 1980 and the body is a 1975. The PO did that.

those compression #'s are very low. all plugs out and throttle open when testing. Yeah, I realized when I read that other thread that I did the compression test wrong. I'll redo it. When they say throttle open, does that mean accelerator all the way to the floor?

yes the vacumn line going to the distributor from the carb, remove from carb and cap off

yes pedal to the floor, when compression testing, or a screw driver stuck into the carb to hold the butterfly open.

 

[Groucho263]

Flame thrower coil came Saturday...installed it and didn’t get it to start. Checked the coil and there is spark from the coil...followed steps on here by grounding the HT wire with a spark plug attached and have a spark at the plug. I can only assume the Pertronix electric ignition went bad since it was running then just quit after I installed the electron ignition. Going to call Pertronix tomorrow but thought about reinstalling the points to test it. Decided to wait to talk to Pertronix before putting the points back in.
Started to do the compression test but also read on here the motor should be at normal running temp...so am waiting on that as well. I did test the first 3 cylindes and the numbers were higher with all the plugs out at roughly 125-130.

 

[Dizzy]

Hot compression numbers are more for precision. A cold test will be more like if the valves are even closing or not, or if there is anything left to the rings or piston walls.

Does electronic ignition require a fenderwell ground? You might just try and run an extra grounding wire to the block or battery?

 

[Groucho263]

Update...called Pertronix on Monday, the first guy I talked to was adamant that their unit (electronic ignition) would not have gone bad and that I needed to check connections. Called back and got another guy who did some troubleshooting with me and after all the troubleshooting didn't work (9V on the coil would go to 6.85 volts when cranking...that coil needs at least 9V) sent me bench test instructions on the electric ignition unit. Bench test failed (it stayed steady at 12V and should have cycled from 12 to 9ish volts when cranking)...so they said they would send a new part and should be here next day. Part got here an hour ago (they aren't the greatest customer service as far as getting parts shipped, etc). Installed it, cranked it about 3 times and it sort of started...barely kept running...for about 30 seconds then quit. When it was running, it sounded like timing was way off. I couldn't get it started after that. Called Pertronix, I have spark at the plug but it's weak (yellow/orange). We tested volts with jumper to neg batt...11.85. Tested volts on pos coil and 11.97. Jumper to the base of the distributor ground...still have volts. Tested volts when trying to crank it and dropped from 11.97 to 9.9 so coil has enough volts. He gave up and said their unit works now...now it's something with the truck...which at least ran before I took out the points.

Anybody have any ideas? I have to get it running to see if it still runs crappy to fix the original problem. Should I just put the points back in? Did I put the distributor rotor back in wrong? There is a little ground wire in the distributor that I tried both connecting to the Petronix post and unhooked...both didn't work. Is the ignition switch bad somehow? Super frustrated.

 

[firemanj92]

I just installed a Pertronix electronic ignition in my 1970 F last month. It barely ran until I advanced the the timing to 11-14 TDC which is normal with Pertronix (and sometimes more advance). The BB is 7, so I put the bb near bottom of timing window. It was a sprint from starting the motor, exiting the vehicle and advancing the distributor by myself.

The little ground wire attaches to one of the little screws provided in the Pertronix kit, which you probably knew.

Hope this helps.

-J

 

[Groucho263]

@firemanj92 thank you. I'll try that in the morning. Did you have weak spark before you adjusted the timing? Luckily, I have a couple teenage kids so I won't have to do that sprint.
I had the ground wire attached, but didn't know if it should be. I'll reconnect in the morning.

I'm not 100% I have the rotor on correctly either. I need to take the valve cover off and use 7 BTDC on the compression stroke...but not sure where that rotor should point. I think it points to the engine #1 spark plug position, not the distributor cap #1 spark plug wire location.

 

[FJ40Jim]

The rotor should point approx to #1 plug tower on the dissy cap.

Going back to early in this thread, there is a hose connected from fuel tank purge line to the EGR valve. That is a huge no-no.
Cap the port on the lower part of the EGR valve, and leave the purge line open to atmosphere so the canister and fuel tank can breathe as needed.

The engine looks like a 1980.
The carb is a low quality copy of a poverty spec 1983 2F carb.
The dissy is a 70-74 vacuum retard.

 

[Groucho263]

The rotor should point approx to #1 plug tower on the dissy cap. Ok, got that after making sure I was on the compression stroke.

Going back to early in this thread, there is a hose connected from fuel tank purge line to the EGR valve. That is a huge no-no. I'm not sure I understand this...can you use the picture and put an arrow at the line I am supposed to disconnect?
Cap the port on the lower part of the EGR valve, and leave the purge line open to atmosphere so the canister and fuel tank can breathe as needed. Not sure exactly what to cap for this either.

The engine looks like a 1980. It is.
The carb is a low quality copy of a poverty spec 1983 2F carb. Carb is from City Racer
The dissy is a 70-74 vacuum retard. I think I am supposed to take the hose off the dist to carb connection and cap it off?
[/QUOTE]
@firemanj92...So, today, I took the valve cover off and made sure I was at TDC...or 7 btdc...and the rotor was pointed at the #1 spark plug wire position on the dist cap. Motor still didn't start. So...@cromagnon helped me move the dizzy while starting to get the engine to start...I got it to start and set the timing (bb to the bottom left...btw, I twisted the dizzy to the left...twisting right did not start the engine) to the bottom left of the window which I think is about 11 btdc. Shut the engine off and tried to restart and it wouldn't start. So, I had to twist the dizzy further left to get it to start again. The problem with this is I have no idea where the timing bb is? I went by engine sound because the bb is lower down on the left of the window. Engine still isn't running great...I need to adjust the carb tomorrow.

 

[Dizzy]

This is the Fuel Tank Purge Line. In the image it is connected to the EGR.

It is connected to, what Jim refers to as, the "lower part of the EGR valve."

For initial tuning, just disconnect the carb to the distributor line, and cap it at the carburetor barb.

I thought that when the barbs were on the outside of the distributor diaphragms, it was a vacuum actuated counter-clockwise rotation on the breaker plate, thus making spark happen sooner. I could be wrong, but I believe that this is a vacuum advance unit.

By chance was the distributor ever removed from the block?

 

[FJ40Jim]

It is a 70-74 vac retard dissy.
Srsly.

 

[Groucho263]

Cap the port on the lower part of the EGR valve, and leave the purge line open to atmosphere so the canister and fuel tank can breathe as needed. I'll do this today.

For initial tuning, just disconnect the carb to the distributor line, and cap it at the carburetor barb. I'll try this also. The distributor has not been removed since I have owned it. So my question is...If I have to twist the distributor left to get it started, and I set the timing so the bb is in the bottom left corner, it won't start. It runs if I don't shut it off...but I can't get it started again until I twist the distributor back to the left. How do I know where to set the timing?

 

[Dizzy]

By left, do you mean counter-clockwise?

 

[Groucho263]

By left, do you mean counter-clockwise?

Yes

 

[Dizzy]

How much choke to get it started? Does your choke accommodate a fast-idle setting by kicking the throttle up a bit?

Do you have a good electrical connection to the idle cut solenoid? Also, is there a good ground at the carb?

There is a return spring on the throttle connected to the bracket that holds the throttle linkage?

I've seen where EGR valves rust, internally. I don't know about the Land Cruiser ones. If it is leaking exhaust into the mix, that would be a cause for trouble. Sometimes, people sandwich a thin plate in with an EGR gasket. They prevent it from being a problem if the valve is not desired.

 

[Chuckha62]

Just for giggles, run a wire from the + side of the battery to the + side of the coil. You may have something as simple as a bad connection at the ignition switch. Ask me how I know... I spent two months going through exactly the steps you're taking. I KNEW it was going to end up being something simple and it turned out to be a slightly corroded connector and a very slightly loose wire on the ignition post at the switch. Jumping around it, I found it.

 

[FJ40Jim]

The dissy vac retard function is retarding the timing after startup, necessitating twisting the dissy in the advance direction.

As mentioned above, don't connect vacuum hose to that dissy. Just run it as a mechanical advance only unit.

To set base timing, follow instructions in various FSMs: pointer at BB, #1 valves loose, rotor pointing at #4 plug hole, rotor pointing at #1 tower, points just breaking open.

 

[Groucho263]

Ok, here is the update.
Cap the port on the lower part of the EGR valve, and leave the purge line open to atmosphere so the canister and fuel tank can breathe as needed. Done, picture attached.

don't connect vacuum hose to that dissy. Just run it as a mechanical advance only unit. Done.

How much choke to get it started? Does your choke accommodate a fast-idle setting by kicking the throttle up a bit? When I had the dizzy twisted counter clockwise, it didn't take any choke to start...but it did take some choke to keep it running.
Here is what I did...after disconnecting the vac hose from the dist and the EGR valve port, I set the timing so the bb is just slightly out of view to the bottom left of the opening. I turned the engine off, then back on and it started. I then adjusted the carb mixture. Seems to run ok...I took it on the road to test and there seemed to be a light bit of hesitation/skip/hiccup, but had to bring it back because the coolant temp got hot. The thermostat didn't seem to bring the temp down. Not sure what caused this...but have to figure this out before I go for a longer test drive. The thermostat is relatively new (I installed it and there is probably about 15 hours on it). When I was able to drive it before, the temperature would get just below the hot limit tick mark (not the hottest, but the 3rd from the right) and go back to the cooler tick mark.

Do you have a good electrical connection to the idle cut solenoid? Yes. Also, is there a good ground at the carb? I don't think I have a ground at the carb. What would that look like? Pictures attached.

There is a return spring on the throttle connected to the bracket that holds the throttle linkage? Pictures.

I've seen where EGR valves rust, internally. I don't know about the Land Cruiser ones. If it is leaking exhaust into the mix, that would be a cause for trouble. Sometimes, people sandwich a thin plate in with an EGR gasket. They prevent it from being a problem if the valve is not desired. I don't think I need it because it doesn't need to be smogged. If that is the case...can you explain a little more about how to do this?

Just for giggles, run a wire from the + side of the battery to the + side of the coil. I plan to do this after I figure out the coolant thing.

 

[Dizzy]

So, on my '75 with Aisan carb, I have a return spring here (below). Make sure that you have some wiggle on the accelerator linkage so that the adjustment rod does not define your idle speed.

Also, I use flat washers under lock washers for the M8 carb studs. I notice that they get kinda loose between assemblies, and it can't hurt.

If the EGR valve does not close, then it will be really hard to tune, because EGR only really works when the engine is hot, and it is above idle on the throttle. I don't like old smog equipment. New smog equipment is good, EGR is good technology for a gasoline engine, but after the exhaust goes thru Toyota's exhaust cooler, it forms condensation akin to the stuff out of a winter tailpipe, and they rust so they don't totally close. Your engine has good vacuum, IIRC, but your fuel charge might be off with the proper mix of air (vacuum leak), or exhaust gas (good only when needed). I don't claim expertise on the EGR subject, as mine is stashed in the crawlspace, but it is a hunch.

Let's say that the slow oxidation has compromised the electrical ground for the idle cut solenoid. I was thinking that you check that there is conductivity from the carb to the engine/chassis with a multimeter.

Off subject, but I thought that the City Racer carb needed a spacer for that air cleaner height? Is it a '75 USA air cleaner assembly?