EMS Powered turbo kits

[FDNewbie]

Yes I'm aware of the difference between bph & whp. Sorry for the oversight.

For me, going with an IC is a no-brainer, regardless of the type of forced induction. If I did a SC or a turbo, I'd still be utilizing an IC.

My main thing debate is WHICH way to go? What's gonna yield me the max reliable *usable* power (on the stock ECU) for the best price?

I'm a bit hesitant to go with a piggyback + fuel mods, as I'm worried what that's gonna do to the truck's reliability. I understand what you mean re: not changing the fueling, but do we know how much hp the factory fuel system can handle in the first place? And how much power (torque) can the tranny hold reliably as well?

 

[scottryana]

It isn't how much power the stock fuel system could fuel it is how it does it.

So our trucks have a weird over fuel at roughly 4000rpms where the truck goes super rich and starts dumping fuel, most of the times it maxes out people's AFR gauge, even when using forced induction. So there is a lot of fuel available but it is only under certain conditions, those being high TPS voltage, high RPM's, high MAF voltage. But in closed loop the truck is trying to keep the AFR's at 14.7:1. So what Toyota did with their TRD supercharger is at low and mid rpm's just slightly oversize the compresser to the engine air needs so that the fuel trims can acount for the extra air, but then as you hit that point of open loop over fueling the extra air is not a problem.

If you pick a smaller turbo to give you lots of power down low by developing boost early on the stock fuel system how do you control that?? If you exceed the 20% fuel correction range you will always throw CEL's. So it looks like the after market has kind of figured this out and gone with GT35, PTE62, etc size turbo's that are big enough they aren't providing a lot of boost early.

So regardless of what you choose on stock fueling and control you have to play it safe in closed loop and can build boost in open loop and over fuel. That is why I say the turbo and supercharger will make the same in stock form. Once you start adding some level of fuel and boost control it is much easier to make more power on the turbo than the superchager.

I know on my truck we had to turn down the boost a lot because the transmission in stock form was slipping really really badly, and there was no way it was going to last. I was making over 440hp and 630ft/lbs of torque. We turned it down to 380hp and 580ft/lbs. it was still slipping very badly so I did the transgo shift kit, and it is much better now. Most of this info can be found in my build thread....

 

[FDNewbie]

Ever give any thought to using a piggyback fuel controller on the stock ECU? That way you can take advantage of the additional fuel *capability* down low and actually make more power?

Re: the tranny, 380rwhp is a LOT more power than stock. That's around 475bph. I'm not thinking of anywhere near that much. 250 - 300 rwhp I think would be MORE than enough to wake up the truck and prevent it from being the current slouch it is.

Dumb question...you did the transfo shift kit on your OEM auto tranny?

 

[scottryana]

I am using a piggyback controller for fuel and spark, you can't just change fueling because of the closed loop feedback, you add fuel, O2 sensor reads rich so it cuts fuel, etc. So then you need an O2 modulator. I am using the AEM FIC/8, but will be changing. Like I said this has all been hashed out in several other threads.

I did do the transgo kit on my A343F, like I said check my build thead this is all in there.

 

[richxd87]

So to compare apples to apples, which do y'all think would be better for the money/return/reliability/ease of install?

Looking for a good bump in power for driveability, not looking to make big power, likely stock injectors, stock computer/controllers etc.

EMS stage 1 turbo kit with IC.

TRD supercharger with aftermarket IC kit.

Both of these options going on a truck with new HG and rebuilt top end.

 

[bahamasair]

I prefer turbo over SC but of the choices you listed I think you will be happy with either. I'd go with the cheapest option since either will meet your goals.

 

[DylanICON]

What about boost referenced pressure regulators to flow more through the stock injectors and the OEM computer wouldn’t know it was out of its 20% range.
I did the poor man’s version of this on my 3.4 Tacoma by routing the stock FP regulator to boost for a 1:1 increase to at least compensate for the REDUCTION in flow from manifold pressure. Eventually it got piggyback, injectors, water injection.
You could do a 2:1 or greater aftermarket pressure regulator.
Could this allow for more appropriate sizing of forced induction for the drivability we want?

 

[scottryana]

You still have closed loop to contend with, it would be no different than swapping larger injectors. The initial injector pulse would be for the stock sized injectors but you would be very rich the O2's would see that and cut the injector pulse width to lean the truck out, If it has to cut or add 20% more than it should that is when you get the CEL.

The flow isn't a problem like I said you could easily swap injectors it is the control that is the issue.