EMS Powered turbo kits

[John E Davies]

OK, I am sure this has been discussed, but I can't find the thread(s).

I already have their 2.5 inch exhaust, so the base Stage 1 kit would get me to Stage 2 power for $5200, vs about $3350 for a TRD supercharger. I really like the air to water IC mounted inside the engine compartment.

Please direct me to some discussions, or talk to me here.

I would love to see a dyno chart for the Stage 2 version..... do these kits make good power at lower rpms and how is the lag?

Thanks.

John Davies
Spokane WA USA

 

[Rookie2]

Ditto. I've kept up somewhat with scottryana's build thread, but has anyone on here actually installed one of their stage 1 or stage 2 bolt-on kits?

 

[scottryana]

Hey John,

Right now there are only 2 of us that can help answer your questions. The turbo systems make really great power and on my setup there is no lag. But that is going to be up to the turbo size you work out with EMS based on the end power goals you have in mind. I wanted boost as soon as possible and was willing to sacrifice ultimate power. The only other EMS kit that has been sold on the other hand went with a much bigger turbo that is looking at making 800hp, which is a lot of power but is going to sacrifice drivability, but that is his goal.

On my truck I make the same amount of power and torque as stock 1750rpms and 350rpms earlier respectively.

Stock figures are
212hp @ 4600rpms
275ft/lbs @ 3000rpms

With the turbo it reaches the naturally aspirated max's even earlier at:
212hp @ 2845rpms
275ft/lbs @ 2657rpms

And the max hp comes in 1100rpms earlier max torque is 400rpms later but there is plenty of it:
384hp @ 3466 rpms
570ft/lbs @ 3400rpms

 

[John E Davies]

SNIP

On my truck I make the same amount of power and torque as stock 1750rpms and 350rpms earlier respectively.

Stock figures are
212hp @ 4600rpms
275ft/lbs @ 3000rpms

With the turbo it reaches the naturally aspirated max's even earlier at:
212hp @ 2845rpms
275ft/lbs @ 2657rpms

And the max hp comes in 1100rpms earlier max torque is 400rpms later but there is plenty of it:
384hp @ 3466 rpms
570ft/lbs @ 3400rpms

Zowee! Why can't other guys describe it this way??! That is very nice info - thanks. My main concern is that when towing at 60 to 70 mph, is there enough extra oomph to eliminate or reduce downshifting and locking/ unlocking of the torque converter?

I don't really give a flip about how much power it makes, I want to make the highway experience pleasurable instead of aggravating. It's like comparing a RAM pickup with Hemi vs a Cummins - when you load it down and drive up high, the diesel power makes the trip a joy.

Can you comment on this aspect of the EMS turbo?

What stage would you say your kit is?

Do you have the 2.5 or 3.0 inch exhaust?

I'm also following the Cummins 5.9 plug and play kit that Jonesey's is working on ...

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/654238-cummins-6bt-conversion.html

... but I am having a hard time figuring out if I can get my registration switched so I can avoid emissions tests...... Similar price as the EMS kit, but a much, MUCH different result. I'm leaning toward the 5.9 swap,but if I can't get my truck licensed it will do me no good, and the EMS turbo may be my best alternative.

Thanks again for your informative comments.

John Davies
Spokane WA USA

 

[scottryana]

I would have to see what RPM's I am at when doing 70mph but if I make around 570ft/lbs of torque at 3400rpms if you are around 3000rpms, on my setup you would be making about 440ft/bs, which just happens to be the max torque a stock 12v Cummins makes.

The big difference between the cummins and turbo 1FZ-FE, is that ther cummins does make torque incredibly low but unless you regear you will be running up agains the limiter. The stock limiter is like 3000rpms and I think even lower 2700rpms on the early models according to this website.

http://www.cumminsdieselspecs.com/12v.html

The cummins has a huge potential for massive power but in stock form I would bet a 1FZ-FE similar to mine would have more power to tow at 70 mph.

I only have the 2.5" exhaust. I bought it prior to going turbo, and since I am not trying for maximum power we just decided keeping it was fine, but the EMS guys did a 3"-2.5" adapter so if I want to go 3" later, I just remove the adapter and the 3" bolts right up to the 3" downpipe.

 

[John E Davies]

The cummins has a huge potential for massive power but in stock form I would bet a 1FZ-FE similar to mine would have more power to tow at 70 mph.

Thanks for the extra info. What mileage are you getting? The excellent fuel economy is the big draw with the Cummins. It's got enough power in stock form for me, but as you say, it is easily upgraded.

John Davies
Spokane WA USA

 

[scottryana]

I will try and get you some numbers soon. I don't have enough time on it to get fuel mileage numbers and as with any new toy, you can't not hit the throttle when you have more power! lol

 

[aboisvert]

Scottryana--

Are you using stock fueling and stock computer? Those numbers seem really big for Stage 1-3 kits...but I hope I'm wrong!

I'll be down this road in a bit...and I'll be looking for lagless boost like you.

 

[scottryana]

No I am running an AEM FIC 8 computer and 540cc injectors with larger fuel pump. The stock fueling system and computer would be maxed out much sooner. Like maybe 65hp gain on stock fueling?

 

[aboisvert]

Wow, only 65 hp gain. Hard to justify a Stage 1-3 versus a SC then.

 

[scottryana]

Let me go look at the stages again. But basically SC or Turbo if you don't address the stock fueling you are going to be limited at the same place. I could be a little off on my estimate, it might be 75hp, but both will end up in the same place. There are other reasons to pick a turbo over a SC.

 

[scottryana]

Ok so

Stage 1 - you will get equivalent power as the SC, but you will have the benefit of having intercooled air charge so less pinging under load in hot temps or if you are running bad gas, in addition to cooler running temps. Benefit over the TRD SC are more adjustability, ability to stay within stock fueling limits now but to increase power later if it is desired. All items still serviceable by manufacturer. $5200

Stage 2 - Complete EMS Stainless 2.5" exhaust for $700

Stage 3 - Custom 3" exhaust so if you want to make changes to fuel system later your exhaust won't be your limiting factor. Complete custom stainless 3" exhaust for $1200

Seems very reasonable to me.

 

[Duiser Offroad]

Reasons for going with an EMS turbo kit and the Cummins conversion kit are very different. Money ($$) and fuel economy are two very big factors.

Installing a turbo on a 95 or newer fzj80 would make it a lot more fun to drive, if that is what you are looking for.

 

[scottryana]

We should have a get together of all the alternatively engined 80's and compare them since I bet none of us have actually been around all of them.

Meet in Salt Lake City

Jonsey brings a cummins
Slee brings a 4.7 Toyota
Rockjock brings a 5.3/6.2
I will bring a turbo 1FZ
All we need is a Canadian 1HD-T

Lol.

 

[Duiser Offroad]

Hahaha, agreed. That would be fun!

No one should construe my above comment as negative. With regard to turbo options or EMS. Any and all alternatives should be considered and compared. We are after all a proud EMS dealer.

I like all the options but, which one could I live with.....

We should have a get together of all the alternatively engined 80's and compare them since I bet none of us have actually been around all of them.

Meet in Salt Lake City

Jonsey brings a cummins
Slee brings a 4.7 Toyota
Rockjock brings a 5.3/6.2
I will bring a turbo 1FZ
All we need is a Canadian 1HD-T

Lol.

 

[scottryana]

Absolutely. didn't take it as anything negative and hopefully you know I wasn't saying a turbo is better than a 4.7, 5.3, 6.2, 5.9d, etc. just that we all have these preconceived notions about how each one works but in reality, who knows we might all be very surprised. The 6.2 might tow better than the cummins, the 4.7 might get the best gas mileage and the cummins might be the most fun to drive? At this point everyone is just making fairly wild guesses I think. And I just think it would be really cool to see them all together. Lol

 

[Duiser Offroad]

Agreed, see the thread I just started. It would be nice to start getting more first hand accounts in a single thread.

Also, it is conceivable that we can and will meet up at some point. Which we would enjoy. We are all trying to achieve the same thing....POWER!!

Absolutely. didn't take it as anything negative and hopefully you know I wasn't saying a turbo is better than a 4.7, 5.3, 6.2, 5.9d, etc. just that we all have these preconceived notions about how each one works but in reality, who knows we might all be very surprised. The 6.2 might tow better than the cummins, the 4.7 might get the best gas mileage and the cummins might be the most fun to drive? At this point everyone is just making fairly wild guesses I think. And I just think it would be really cool to see them all together. Lol

 

[FDNewbie]

scottryana, so the EMSPowered website quotes 1.5 - 2 times stock power on the Stage I - III setups.

With the #s you quoted:

Stock figures are
212hp @ 4600rpms
275ft/lbs @ 3200rpms

1.5X Stock are
318hp @ 4600rpms
412ft/lbs @ 3200rpms

2X Stock are
424hp @ 4600rpms
550ft/lbs @ 3200rpms

Now those are some SERIOUS #s...but your quote of 65 hp...that's 30% gains. That's nothing. And I'd go CRAZY if I spent $6K to get 65hp. You might as well stick with a TRD S/C and get 25% for half the price. And reliably. So I'd really appreciate some feedback yourself or EMSPowered if the numbers on their website (which I've translated into real HP figures) are accurate or not, on a stock ECU, with a Stage II kit.

My whole thing is I want something reliable, and easy to install and troubleshoot. A major part of that is remaining with the stock ECU (piggyback is ok) for the OEM diagnostics. That, and being able to pass inspection/emissions.

Your feedback would be GREATLY appreciated, as I've been going back and forth between the TRD & Sprintex S/Cs, for a WHILE now (25% and 50% additional power, respectively), and now the EMSPowered turbokit. But not for 65hp gains.

TIA!

 

[86tuning]

You realize that measured WHEEL horsepower is significantly less than manufacturers rated engine horsepower, right?

212hp at the crank prolly means about 150hp at the tires.

280hp at the tires is almost 2x the output of the stock vehicle.

 

[scottryana]

Ok I don't want to speak for EMS, I am not an employee nor do I have any stake in the business. I can give you an idea of what my setup provides, but I did not use one of their kits, I had my own setup in mind and used them to do the fabrication (which was top notch)

86 tuning is absolutely right the 212hp that the factory engine produces is crank power, when we did my truck after an extensive rebuild, it was 138hp to all 4 wheels. On my setup I did more than double that. But my setup is not one of their kits.

I would say -

Their Stage 1 kit would give you the same power as a Supercharger but safer since the intake air temp is cooled down with an intercooler.

Stage 2 gets you a that plus a full stainless 2.5" exhaust for $700

Stage 3 might pick up a little more power but neglegible really is just for those that plan on going for bigger power later, it is stage 1 with custom 3" stainless exhaust for $1200.

Stage 4 is really the first time you start seeing big power gains. I think at stage 4 you could see twice the factory power for sure.

Stage 5 is just the stage 4 but installed.


So really in my mind they could have written it as-

Stage 1 - $5200
w/ 2.5" stainless exhaust - $5900
w/ custom 3" exhaust - $6400

Stage 2 - all of stage 1 plus
fueling mods - injectors, fuel pumps
computer - piggyback computer, and pigtail
ignition - colder spark plugs

Installation - Stage 1 - $1500??? Guess
Stage 2 - $3450


Not sure if that helps or muddy's the water.

Basically what you have to remember is that if you don't change fueling and computer management whether it is with the TRD supercharger or a Turbo kit you will reach a limit. It isn't until after you have addressed those things, and the head bolts, and the transmission that you can start making real power.