This is where I installed mine. Easy reach, love the look.
Element Fire Extinguisher - Any Experiences? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Dissent
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
Outsane
Supporting Vendor
If you want a custom mount made for a roll bar let me know, I have already made some other mounts for the element
I see a real split of videos and experiences with these. There's at least a couple videos on Youtube showing disappointing effectiveness, then video after video by or sponsored by Element showing it working great.
Would be nice to see if the fires that Element can't put out are actually put out by a small traditional fire extinguisher.
They obviously work somewhat, and in some situations. But whether the convenience is worth it, or it's a false sense of security, I'm not sure.
Would be nice to see if the fires that Element can't put out are actually put out by a small traditional fire extinguisher.
They obviously work somewhat, and in some situations. But whether the convenience is worth it, or it's a false sense of security, I'm not sure.
I'd be interested to know how they compare in terms of capacity? How much juice do they have?
I don't think anyone who's had to use a fire extinguisher in an emergency has said "Gee, I wish I had a smaller extinguisher"
I found this had some valid points to consider
This is underwhelming
1973Guppie
Supporting Vendor
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2003
- Threads
- 952
- Messages
- 10,227
- Location
- "the whale's vagina", CA
- Website
- www.noahsarkstlc.com
this is my concern, most of the videos I have seen have been less than convincing, it's not something I am going to skimp on, I used a halon extinguisher in my trucks
Does a halon extinguisher leave a nasty residue?
Wow. Appears worthless with a light wind/open air conditions. A bottle of water would have done better on that wood fire.
smritte
SILVER Star
Well that just sucks.
I bought them due to their size and weight. I guess this means I need to remount my chemical extinguishers.
That means the only reason their popular is mass advertising.
I bought them due to their size and weight. I guess this means I need to remount my chemical extinguishers.
That means the only reason their popular is mass advertising.
Yeah, the Element extinguishers aren't great on open fires like outdoors grass fires and such. Where they do work well is on enclosed fires like engine compartments, kitchen cabinets and underdeck boat fires, that kind of thing. Also safer on electrical fires than a water extinguisher, and make no mess like a halon extinguisher while being much more environmentally friendly. So they are a little more specialized than a typical ABC extinguisher, but they come without expiration dates or required maintenance and they can even be frozen solid and still work. That makes them good for some folks and applications and not so hot for others, YMMV. Always begin with the end in mind and try to plan accordingly.
As an aside, as a professional Firefighter the small ABC extinguishers found in most automotive brackets are not so hot either, as they run out extremely quickly. You can usually get by with one if you have some experience using them, but for a first-time user or a larger fire they typically don't get the whole fire out before the extinguisher runs dry. Seen that a bunch on the street. They also aren't great against grass fires and such because of the limited amount of suppressing chemical available. The upside is that they are fairly common, very portable, and therefore more available than larger extinguishers.
I always suggest an minimum 5 pound ABC in a vehicle if you have any expectations at all of using it. I keep a 10 pound ABC in my truck myself, because I have come across several vehicle fires that had extended into the surrounding vegetation and wished for more than the 5 pounders I had at the time. It's kind of a pain due to the size but I know what I can accomplish with it. If I didn't live well above the frost line I'd probably have a pressurized water/foam can extinguisher with AFFF foam in it, but up heah in the winter that's a non-starter. (And they are comparatively huge, but them's the breaks.) The further away from help you are, the bigger extinguisher you would want in case of trouble. Most Fire apparatus have 20 pound ABC's on them, those will put out a lot of fire but they are big and heavy.
Too big an extinguisher isn't really a crisis, but too small of one surely can be if help is a long way away, because given suitable fuel, a class A fire (solid combustible materials) will double in size every minute, and much faster than that with class B (combustible liquids) fuel. The result could be not just your whole rig burning up but it could turn into a wildfire as well, and that's not something you want to be responsible for. Carry enough extinguisher, and multiple types is never a bad idea either.
Hope this helps.
As an aside, as a professional Firefighter the small ABC extinguishers found in most automotive brackets are not so hot either, as they run out extremely quickly. You can usually get by with one if you have some experience using them, but for a first-time user or a larger fire they typically don't get the whole fire out before the extinguisher runs dry. Seen that a bunch on the street. They also aren't great against grass fires and such because of the limited amount of suppressing chemical available. The upside is that they are fairly common, very portable, and therefore more available than larger extinguishers.
I always suggest an minimum 5 pound ABC in a vehicle if you have any expectations at all of using it. I keep a 10 pound ABC in my truck myself, because I have come across several vehicle fires that had extended into the surrounding vegetation and wished for more than the 5 pounders I had at the time. It's kind of a pain due to the size but I know what I can accomplish with it. If I didn't live well above the frost line I'd probably have a pressurized water/foam can extinguisher with AFFF foam in it, but up heah in the winter that's a non-starter. (And they are comparatively huge, but them's the breaks.) The further away from help you are, the bigger extinguisher you would want in case of trouble. Most Fire apparatus have 20 pound ABC's on them, those will put out a lot of fire but they are big and heavy.
Too big an extinguisher isn't really a crisis, but too small of one surely can be if help is a long way away, because given suitable fuel, a class A fire (solid combustible materials) will double in size every minute, and much faster than that with class B (combustible liquids) fuel. The result could be not just your whole rig burning up but it could turn into a wildfire as well, and that's not something you want to be responsible for. Carry enough extinguisher, and multiple types is never a bad idea either.
Hope this helps.
Good post
I think for my needs the element is fine. I carry it incase I get a fire inside my rig or engine bay. The axe and shovel in the back should be able to handle any wood fires, grass fires, or campfire accidents.
I don't plan on having and grease fires around the rig.
Interesting to look at these in use.
I went down a youtube rabbit hole yesterday. I really think the element is close to useless, unless you catch a vehicle/ engine/ fuel fire in the first 30 seconds or so.
Vast majority of "demonstrations" on youtube do not reflect real life energency scenarios at all. They mostly use basic fire extinguisher training setups which are a poor example for an emergency too.
I think the element is one notch better than nothing, and I guess that's where it's size comes in, people will carry it in a vehicle because it's so easy to stow.
It's more effective than a bigger extinguisher that's left in the garage because there's no good place to stow it in the car.
In a lot of instances they are probably just a false sense of security.
I don't like how close to the fire source it needs to be to have any effect
I went down a youtube rabbit hole yesterday. I really think the element is close to useless, unless you catch a vehicle/ engine/ fuel fire in the first 30 seconds or so.
Vast majority of "demonstrations" on youtube do not reflect real life energency scenarios at all. They mostly use basic fire extinguisher training setups which are a poor example for an emergency too.
I think the element is one notch better than nothing, and I guess that's where it's size comes in, people will carry it in a vehicle because it's so easy to stow.
It's more effective than a bigger extinguisher that's left in the garage because there's no good place to stow it in the car.
In a lot of instances they are probably just a false sense of security.
I don't like how close to the fire source it needs to be to have any effect
1973Guppie
Supporting Vendor
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2003
- Threads
- 952
- Messages
- 10,227
- Location
- "the whale's vagina", CA
- Website
- www.noahsarkstlc.com
no, it is meant to put out automotive fires, thus not causing more damage to the vehicl like a standard extinguisher does. You can get them on summit racing. Cheers
USMCDocJ
SILVER Star
Outsane
Supporting Vendor
Nice to hear a success story...
I hope there wasn't too much damage
I hope there wasn't too much damage
USMCDocJ
SILVER Star
Nope. Not to blow your skirt up but your mount made it super fast to respond and the element did the job fantastically. Other than my pride, no damage.
Great information, thank you! I do feel like the Element is definitely overmarketed and could be a false sense of security for some. But it clearly has worked for some, and it's wonderfully convenient. Sounds like both would be ideal, if you can avoid the mess of the ABC extinguisher it should be the first option.
Would this mean that the Element, or similar, would be most effective used pointing up underneath a vehicle, into such a compartment? It seems like the ABC fire extinguishers might be better for a top to bottom approach, but this is pure speculation on my part.
My thoughts, the element would be useful IF you catch a fire before it's well established, or doesn't have a ready supply of volatile fuel.
Dry chemical or CO2 etc, there's more pressure to be able direct the powder/gas at the base/source of the fire without having to be within a foot or so of it.
The element seems to have zero force to propel the gas more than a foot or so.
Powder/CO2 etc, you can use a series of aimed bursts to manage a fire. The element, once its lit, its gonna run down the clock, no pausing to reposition or re-aim.
They can kind of forcefully separate the flame front from the fuel source as well as taking away oxygen from the flame.
Watching videos of the element, that forcefulness just isn't therr
Powder is destructive. The powder is an oxidising agent. It works be depleting oxygen from the air.
This also means residual powder absorbs oxygen and causes rust and corrosion.
Powder may save your car from a fire, only to write it off by destroying metallic and electrical components.
CO2 or Halon aren't destructive, but powder is more versatile, and more effective across more fuel types.
I've used CO2 to snuff out a diesel mini-excavator that was tipped over on a construction project and was running on engine oil. 2 hours later, we had the excavator upright, gave it time for oil to settle, and fired it up again. You could not do that with powder.
Yup, CO2 is great for shutting off running engines in a hurry if you can't access or find the ignition. Dump a CO2 extinguisher in the air intake and it's going to shut off. Have never tried that with Halon or the Element extinguishers, but the Halon at least should work. Not sure the Element would produce enough volume quick enough to do it on a big motor, but probably it'd work fine on a small engine. Be interesting to try though, and shouldn't hurt anything. CO2 is also great for putting out a fire inside a tank if you can block off the air until it cools down below the flash point.
"Would this mean that the Element, or similar, would be most effective used pointing up underneath a vehicle, into such a compartment?"
By watching the videos on the Element it looks like getting it into the air stream is the most effective method for deploying them. So if the majority of the air getting to the fire is coming up from underneath like in an engine compartment then that's probably the best method for using one. Opening the hood on a car fire is always the first reaction but honestly all you are doing is giving the fire more air that way. Keeping it closed and hitting it from underneath should give you the best bang for the buck with a gas extinguisher like a CO2 or Element. Hitting it from the top works better with water or dry chem since it'd be difficult to put the extinguishing agent on the fire any other way and gravity will help get it where it needs to go. Keeping the hood closed also protects you as well because the fire will always flare up when the hood is opened, and that can take your eyebrows right off.
One other thing to be cautious of with car fires is Class D combustible metals, which fortunately our 80's don't have much of. Burning magnesium in particular will explode in sparks when doused with water, there's tons of videos online showing that. Looks and acts a bit like white phosphorous when it happens, burns holes right through our fire gear. Volkswagens and Fords in particular use a lot of magnesium in their cars so we have to approach those with a bit more caution. Just be aware if you are trying to put out someone else's fire that it can and does happen.
Lithium hybrid cars will burn once they start and there's almost no way to put those out; certainly no way with portable extinguishers. The best we can usually do with those is keep the fire confined to the one vehicle until the fuel is consumed and we can extinguish what's left. I'm a bit concerned about hydrogen powered vehicles in the future since hydrogen burns almost perfectly clear and you can't even see it if it's burning. Not to mention the explosive power of compressed hydrogen in the presence of oxygen, that's a bit more dangerous than propane. But I'm sure if they become popular we'll figure those out too.
"Would this mean that the Element, or similar, would be most effective used pointing up underneath a vehicle, into such a compartment?"
By watching the videos on the Element it looks like getting it into the air stream is the most effective method for deploying them. So if the majority of the air getting to the fire is coming up from underneath like in an engine compartment then that's probably the best method for using one. Opening the hood on a car fire is always the first reaction but honestly all you are doing is giving the fire more air that way. Keeping it closed and hitting it from underneath should give you the best bang for the buck with a gas extinguisher like a CO2 or Element. Hitting it from the top works better with water or dry chem since it'd be difficult to put the extinguishing agent on the fire any other way and gravity will help get it where it needs to go. Keeping the hood closed also protects you as well because the fire will always flare up when the hood is opened, and that can take your eyebrows right off.
One other thing to be cautious of with car fires is Class D combustible metals, which fortunately our 80's don't have much of. Burning magnesium in particular will explode in sparks when doused with water, there's tons of videos online showing that. Looks and acts a bit like white phosphorous when it happens, burns holes right through our fire gear. Volkswagens and Fords in particular use a lot of magnesium in their cars so we have to approach those with a bit more caution. Just be aware if you are trying to put out someone else's fire that it can and does happen.
Lithium hybrid cars will burn once they start and there's almost no way to put those out; certainly no way with portable extinguishers. The best we can usually do with those is keep the fire confined to the one vehicle until the fuel is consumed and we can extinguish what's left. I'm a bit concerned about hydrogen powered vehicles in the future since hydrogen burns almost perfectly clear and you can't even see it if it's burning. Not to mention the explosive power of compressed hydrogen in the presence of oxygen, that's a bit more dangerous than propane. But I'm sure if they become popular we'll figure those out too.
