Electrical Help 911!

[Corrugated Toy]

OK I'll admit I did the man thing and tried to do it without the directions and/or help....:whoops: Roughly 16 hours, countless blown fuses and a desparate PM to Pin-Head later I figured its time to kick this wiring in the ass! A quick pic of my newly installed running board to get people interested whilst I organize my electrical pics.

 

[TMACK]

Sa-weeeeeeeeet

 

[Corrugated Toy]

Here starts the mess!

I'm going to post quite a few different problems. Feel free to answer one, two or all

Problem 1: Ignition Switch

First pic shows my ingnition switch (I know it's not original to my 64, PO must have switched it out). My not-so Painless wiring harness indicates the following:

Color Connect To Origin

Pink Ign Switch (Coil Ign) Fuse Panel
Orange Ign Switch Ign Fuse Panel
Red Ign Switch B+ Fuse Panel
Purple Ign Switch Start Starter Solenoid
Brown Ign Switch Acc. Fuse Panel

I have doubled the Pink and Orange. Should I have just the Pink connected, and discard the orange????????

Problem 2: Starter

Second and Third Pics show Starter.

Color Connect To Origin

8 Gauge Red Starter Solenoid Maxi Fuse
Big Red " " Battery
purple " " (S-Term) Ign Switch

I'm not sure what an "S-Term" is?? Do they all get wired together on the one solenoid post. I have the ground and battery grounded together is this alright? The 8 gauge is connected through the maxi fuse to the alternator along with another from the fuse block. I have Powermaster High amp alternator that indicates that it is a "ONE WIRE" alternator...I have three (I think) that need to connect. More on that next.

 

[Corrugated Toy]

Alternator

I was sold on this by my local mechanic, and he swears its the best alternator for my needs. It is a Powermaster 140 amp, one wire, with an internal regulator. As I stated in the previous post instead of one wire I have 3. They are as follows:

Color/Connect To/Origin

White/Alternator Exciter/Fuse Panel
Red/Alternator B+/Fuse Panel
Big Red/Alternator/Maxi Fuse

I have a new voltage regulator, do I install this in this line....area....anywhere??? Any ideas with what to do with the white wire? Other than hang myself with it!

The last pic is my battery (I know at least that much! I think...) I have a Warn M8000. Can I connect this directly to the side posts?

 

[Corrugated Toy]

Getting There...

Next up...Ignition Coil

I am using a Crane electronic ignition. My mechanic installed this, so my questions, obviously, aren't many.

He has the + to +, - to -, and ground. I have connected as directed by my not-so buddies as follow's:

Color/Connect To/Origin

Pink/Coil B+/Fuse Panel

Is this correct?

Last Pic shows a wire from the Coil + to the solenoid on my Carb. Should this be fused?

 

[Corrugated Toy]

I Think this may be it...until later

A few simple (maybe) questions.

First pic of my instrument cluster. I have designated the black wires with the blue ends as grounds for each gauge. Is this correct. I have my original wiring diagram but I can't understand it that well.

Next pic is of my windshield wiper moter. Simple enough
S=Switch
+=Power
-=Ground

Problem ensues in last pic. Where the F*** do they go on the switch!


Once again guys any and all help with this will be greatly appreciated. I have been working on my 64 resto/mod for 5 years now and she's almost there. I'm dying to beat her again.

 

[Pin_Head]

I'm going to post quite a few different problems. Feel free to answer one, two or all

Problem 1: Ignition Switch

First pic shows my ingnition switch (I know it's not original to my 64, PO must have switched it out). My not-so Painless wiring harness indicates the following:

Color Connect To Origin

Pink Ign Switch (Coil Ign) Fuse Panel
Orange Ign Switch Ign Fuse Panel
Red Ign Switch B+ Fuse Panel
Purple Ign Switch Start Starter Solenoid
Brown Ign Switch Acc. Fuse Panel

I have doubled the Pink and Orange. Should I have just the Pink connected, and discard the orange????????

Problem 2: Starter

Second and Third Pics show Starter.

Color Connect To Origin

8 Gauge Red Starter Solenoid Maxi Fuse
Big Red " " Battery
purple " " (S-Term) Ign Switch

I'm not sure what an "S-Term" is?? Do they all get wired together on the one solenoid post. I have the ground and battery grounded together is this alright? The 8 gauge is connected through the maxi fuse to the alternator along with another from the fuse block. I have Powermaster High amp alternator that indicates that it is a "ONE WIRE" alternator...I have three (I think) that need to connect. More on that next.

1. Take a look at the ignition switch wiring on any year schematic diagram (they aren't that different). There are 4 positions which may have 6 wires:

a. Main power imput from battery. I'm guessing that this is the red wire from your description. the other end of this wire connects to the large battery wire at the starter solenoid.

b. Ignition switch "on" wire. One branch will go to the ignition coil; another branch (usually a large gauge wire) will go to the "key on" side of the fuse block. The ignition wire is probably the pink wire in your description. It isn't clear from your description which wire should provide power to the fuse block, but there needs to be one. Some things, like the turn signals, heater, alternator, smog control, gauges, only are supposed to work if the key is on. The key on wire provides power to the fuse block for all of these circuits. Again, look at the schematic and you will see how this works.

c. The start wire. This is the purple wire in your description and the other end connects to the solenoid coil spade lug in the second picture. S- term probably means spade terminal.

d. The accessory wire. Some circuits are designed to work with the key in the Acc position before the "On" position. The radio is the only one in Cruisers I am familiar with.

2. Starter wiring. The battery cable goes to the large lug on the solenoid. The red wire goes to the power B+ terminal of the switch. From here, there should be another large gauge wire that feeds the "constant power" side of the fuse block. Some circuits, like the headlights and brake lights are always on, even without the key. This wire needs to feed these circuits. The purple wire from the start position of the key connects to the spade lug on the solenoid. It needs to have a spade type connector spliced on it.

 

[Pin_Head]

I was sold on this by my local mechanic, and he swears its the best alternator for my needs. It is a Powermaster 140 amp, one wire, with an internal regulator. As I stated in the previous post instead of one wire I have 3. They are as follows:

Color/Connect To/Origin

White/Alternator Exciter/Fuse Panel
Red/Alternator B+/Fuse Panel
Big Red/Alternator/Maxi Fuse

I have a new voltage regulator, do I install this in this line....area....anywhere??? Any ideas with what to do with the white wire? Other than hang myself with it!

The last pic is my battery (I know at least that much! I think...) I have a Warn M8000. Can I connect this directly to the side posts?

Not much help here because I am not familiar with that particular alternator. A "one wire" alternator is self exciting and has a built in regulator. You have too many wires connected in the picture. You only need 1 wire that goes directly to the battery + terminal (preferably with a fused link in line). Normally, this wire would connect to the + side of the amp meter, but your puny 30 amp meter won't handle 140 amps, so you can't use the stock amp meter.

 

[Pin_Head]

Next up...Ignition Coil

I am using a Crane electronic ignition. My mechanic installed this, so my questions, obviously, aren't many.

He has the + to +, - to -, and ground. I have connected as directed by my not-so buddies as follow's:

Color/Connect To/Origin

Pink/Coil B+/Fuse Panel

Is this correct?

Last Pic shows a wire from the Coil + to the solenoid on my Carb. Should this be fused?

The pink wire is correct if it connects to the ignition switch "on" position. Can't tell where the other wires go from the pictures, but if it runs, it is OK.

Normally the solenoid wire is fused from the key on side of the fuse block. It is one of many things that run off the "engine" fuse. The coil is not fused. Toyota thought it would be more reliable that way. The more things you run off the coil circuit, the more chances you have of getting a short circuit that will shut off your engine while you are driving. This could be dangerous.

 

[Pin_Head]

A few simple (maybe) questions.

First pic of my instrument cluster. I have designated the black wires with the blue ends as grounds for each gauge. Is this correct. I have my original wiring diagram but I can't understand it that well.

Next pic is of my windshield wiper moter. Simple enough
S=Switch
+=Power
-=Ground

Problem ensues in last pic. Where the F*** do they go on the switch!


Once again guys any and all help with this will be greatly appreciated. I have been working on my 64 resto/mod for 5 years now and she's almost there. I'm dying to beat her again.

Switch on fused power goes to the fuel gauge. The fuel gauge has a built in voltage regulator that supplies power to the oil and temp gauges. These gauges are grounded through their individual senders.

Can't help with the wipers because all the wires look the same. Get familiar with the Toyota schematic and wire them the same way or just use the original toyota wiring.

 

[bsmith123]

Schematics

Dont have the painless schematic to look at--that might be a good one to add to Coolermans schematic site.

It would help you a great deal now and in the future to learn to trace the circuit with a meter and it is easy to do and will help you verify the schematic and figure out a lot of problems

pick up a cheap multimeter--get one that the leads dont fall out of the meter easily

when you are looking at the schematic try and isolate down to one thing at a time. Follow the wires on the schematic and draw them on a sheet of paper including just the wires you are working on for example the ignition circuit.

Using the ignition switch as an example

For the ignition switch you know you need power to start, power to run, and power in at a minimum

it is easy to find which wire goes where.
Set the meter to OHMS low scale.
Put one lead of the meter where the power would go in on the switch. Turn the sw to the start pos and touch the other lead to all of the contacts and when you have continuity you know that is the start terminal --- , You verify this by turning the switch back and forth and you will see that you gain and lose continuity.

Same procedure for the ignition pos etc. Now you have the switch poles figured out--on to the wires


From the schematic AM goes to the wire that splits and goes to the battery and alt. Clip the + meter lead to any of the remaining wires and the - lead a good ground on the body. Now go to the fusebox wires and touch all the wires one at a time to gound until you read continuity --- now you have found the Fuse connection. Verify touching it to ground and removing it and watching the meter go open and gain continuity. If the wire you are connected to does not read to the fuse wires unclip it and try the next wire at the switch end

Now go to the Alternator wires and do the same and find the wire that will run back to the switch

Now you have the wire that hooks to AM and the ALT and Fusebox figured out

Mark each wire as you go and dont hook up anything yet or worry about how your actual alternator gets wired in--that comes later, For now you are verifying the harness lay out

Ign goes to the wire that splits and goes to the fuse and coil
hook up the meter same way one lead to wire at the switch and one to ground and touch the wires at the other end to ground one at a time till you find it


You can use this in conjuction with your color codes and schematics to make sure everything it correct. Remember resistance checks of the wires should be done without hooking any of them up cause you could get confusing readings

If you know how to trace the circuit you can work without a schematic for a lot of things


Using a test light can be handy and quick too as long as you are not blowing fuses because stuff is hooked up wrong

Also look at function and your options, for your carb solenoid it takes 12 volts from the pos side of the coil with the key on. It does not have to come from there it could come from any place that has power with the key on---there are options if you dont like the way they did things.

For you ammeter and the new powerful alternator you may want to look at a mod to put in a voltmeter instead.

I think I would trace the harness out per the standard fj40 layout then start looking at how you need to tackle each thing you have changed one at a time


I would work the Battery/starter connection
Then the Alternator
Then the Ignition
Then lights
horn
wipers
heater
and so on, one circuit at a time

There are posts galore on modding from the old external VR to the one wire just search and look at the FAQ. I think it would help you to look at the original config, id the wires in their original layout, then look at the posts on modifying to the one wire

Here is a good site for some electrical systems reading

MadElectrical.com - Electrical Tech



Catalog

This will tell you all about one wire vs three wire alternators

Sure takes a lot of writing to explain what I could show you in about 60 seconds!

But this is how we get thru our builds, we all need help in one area or another

 

[Coolerman]

What year is this again? I take it from your name that you have a early <1967 FJ40?

See the pic of the gauge on my 2/71 FJ40. The circled yellow wire that jumpers to the Oil,Temp and fuel gauges eventually goes to the fuse box.

Pin_Head are th earlier ones wired differently? You mentioned a regulator built into the fuel gauge? The earliest schematic I have is of a 1969 and it also shows the jumper going to +12 at the fuse box. What am I missing here?

It's a great day to learn something...

 

[Pin_Head]

Pin_Head are th earlier ones wired differently? You mentioned a regulator built into the fuel gauge? The earliest schematic I have is of a 1969 and it also shows the jumper going to +12 at the fuse box. What am I missing here?
..

I don't have that much experience with early wiring except what I see on schematic diagrams. At least some fuel gauges have a voltage regulator built in to it and it further distributes regulated power to the temp and oil pressure gauges. There was a thread on this a few months ago. It is not shown in the schematic diagram. I believe the point of this is to prevent gauge fluctuation as you go from idle to speed and the chassis voltage increases. If the yellow wires in your picture are all connected directly to the fuse, obviously all gauges get chassis voltage, so there must be some year variation in the wiring.

 

[bsmith123]

here's mine

here's my gauge (below)
Fuel Gauge Test
not a 40 but same principle this link shows how to test the fuel gauge voltage regulator if youre interested
just noticed on the 71 cleaned tif schematic anyway there is no power wire going to the temp gauge --must have got erased in the cleaning



Like you said we dont have the schematic but we have 6 gauge terminals and so does he (not counting amps) it pretty much has to have power in and one wire off each to the respective sending units then to case ground at the sender


Corrugated Toy

You said -----"First pic of my instrument cluster. I have designated the black wires with the blue ends as grounds for each gauge. Is this correct. I have my original wiring diagram but I can't understand it that well."

Just clarifying---by ground you mean that each of the black wires is going to a sender right? You didnt run power and ground to each one did you? If so they might all just read maxed out one way or the other (or possibly burn up the gauge or blow the fuse--not sure what the resistance provided by the senders is)

also if that is the case and you look at ours and where the solid yellow wires connect ---I think yours is backwards. From the right 2,4, and 6 terminals are the 12v wires but you say they go to ground on yours ---I think that is probably backwards

after the gauges Lets get the AMMETER figured out too---you dont want to hook that straight to ground and you have a black wire going to it as well---should go to battery (solenoid) power and Alternator B

Cooler and Pinhead---does that seem right to you?


"My not-so Painless wiring harness indicates the following:"

By this I take it that the PAINLESS harness comes with it's own schematic, is that correct? IF so can you scan and post it? Since all the wire colors are different I cant tell where the other ends are going---Only what is on the original FJ schematic for the year models we have on Coolers site.

Can you confirm your gauge layout from left to right as you would normally look at it from the front side
mine is:

oil temp fuel amps


that is one funky looking wiper switch---do you have a seperate switch for washers?

 

[bsmith123]

sheesh

sheesh I get it now this is explaining the painless diagram

Color/Connect To/Origin

White/Alternator Exciter/Fuse Panel
Red/Alternator B+/Fuse Panel
Big Red/Alternator/Maxi Fuse

still a schematic would be better

 

[bsmith123]

ammeter

Not much help here because I am not familiar with that particular alternator. A "one wire" alternator is self exciting and has a built in regulator. You have too many wires connected in the picture. You only need 1 wire that goes directly to the battery + terminal (preferably with a fused link in line). Normally, this wire would connect to the + side of the amp meter, but your puny 30 amp meter won't handle 140 amps, so you can't use the stock amp meter.

x2 I think the painless instructions might be taking the ammeter into account. If you have the one wire with the maxi fuse going to the Battery from the altenator ---your ignition should still work off the battery side of the circuit and you can install a voltmeter to monitor later

 

[Coolerman]

I verified last night that in my harness the yellow wire goes to +12V directly, no regulator involved.

If you ground the black wires your gauges will not work. The black wires need to go to either +12 volts or to this regulator thingy. The wires on the other side of the gauge go to the sending units which then ground the gauges through the senders.

bsmith123: Nice pics of the gauge regulator, where did you find them, what year are they in and can you send me the pics in full size and full resolution?

 

[bsmith123]

regulator

Fuel Gauge Test

Cooler

click on fuel gauge test link above for the pics

it is not 40 specific just an example of how it works but despite some physical differences most of these things work essentially the same way --I liked the post cause it includes a test for the gauge

It is actually a Mustang site
Instrument Panel Function Electrical Basics - Mustang & Fords Magazine

more instrument stuff


No more from Corrugated Toy---I bet he is busy in the garage!

 

[Corrugated Toy]

Sorry for the delay... Lot's of info to digest. UPDATE!

SHE'S ALIVE!!!!! I, along with everyone elses imput, have successfully gotten her started. First time in 5 years! I ended up having a leak in my newly restored (ie painted) gas tank. I have fixed that and it is on its way back to get re-painted. I want to thank everyone with there help. Coolerman, is your 71 instrument panel wired the same as mine? Does anyone know if there is an aftermarket gauge that will fit/replace the 30amp meter? My next problem............

She now runs, and I am tracking down my electrical issue's (thanks for the tip BSMITH), but now she won't accept fuel. Give her gas and she dies. I have an idea and I hope that I'm wrong. I have a non-USA carb for a 69 F motor (this motor came in the truck when I purchased it), and I believe that it is ported. My distributer is not. I know I'm switching gears on subject matter...sorry. I post some pics of the Carb/vacuum lines/distributor.

My 16 year old, license newly aquired, is getting frustrated with Dad for not having the truck running yet.

 

[Coolerman]

Coolerman, is your 71 instrument panel wired the same as mine? Does anyone know if there is an aftermarket gauge that will fit/replace the 30amp meter?

If you are referring to the fact the two gauge clusters look identical, then I would say yes they are wired internally the same. However since I don't know exactly where you hooked all the wires I can't say for sure if your cluster is connected correctly. Again all your black wires should go to +12V and the others should go to the respective sending units.

As far as a replacement: There are no direct replacement Amp gauges available. You could upgrade to the 50 amp gauge used in later years but you would have to deal with some wiring changes.