Electrical Gremlins, help me logic through this.....

[DanS HJ-45]

So, the HJ61 last week decided to have an electrical issue. First, the headlights stopped working. When you turned the headlights on the relay buzzed, and that was that. If you turned on the heater, or either blinker--the hi beam indicator came on, but certainly no headlights.

This is where I'd suspect a ground issue somewhere under the dash.

So I got it home using some super awesome "Baja Tough" $20 lights and when i went to start it it turned over just fine, but only one try. After that, NOTHING. No horn, no dome light, no clicking, no headlights (obviously).

I tested the fusible link, and it's fine. I also tried two spare fusible links--same.

The problem I'm having is that I would expect SOMETHING to work if it was just a ground issue, but obviously nothing does at all. So before I tear apart the dash and start doing way more troubleshooting than I want, anyone ever seen this kind of thing before?

EDIT--I don't have an FSM handy here either, and the only one I can find online is for an FJ62, which isn't much help when it comes to the headlights.

Dan

 

[zipper]

Useless input, but I'd definitely have an FSM with a foreign model.

 

[Output Shaft]

Well I vowed from now on to ask the obvious questions first.

1. Did you cut any wires before this happened?
2. Did you change anything prior to this?
3. Did you install any new lights or brighter bulbs?

If no, no, yes, then remove the gauge cluster and look for a junction connector in the wiring harness with a lot of ground wires joining up together. That's a common fail point.

Most of the cab electrics ground together at a cheesy light duty connector (behind the gauges). When that thing starts to burn up over the years, the connector's resistance goes up and the ground starts finding other places to flow through. Sometimes other components.

That's where I'd look.

 

[Rockys60]

I'm having the same problem, if I can find a solution I'll let you know.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Useless input, but I'd definitely have an FSM with a foreign model.

I've got one. It's just not here at the moment. And the truck is actually an FJ60 that I converted with an HJ61 half-cut into an "HJ61." Either way, I've got an FSM, it's just not here.

Well I vowed from now on to ask the obvious questions first.

1. Did you cut any wires before this happened?
2. Did you change anything prior to this?
3. Did you install any new lights or brighter bulbs?

Nope. Not a single change to the truck in the past 6 months.

So I did more testing. And I think I narrowed down the problem. I'll post up tomorrow if it's successful. Since I did the conversion a couple years ago, all the grounds were clean and solid at that time, so if it's a ground problem that means I'll need to take a good look around that ground junction block behind the gauge cluster, which was perfect last time I saw it (less than a year ago).

Fingers crossed I narrowed it down today...

Dan

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Troubleshooting continues....

I found the problem that was causing nothing at all to work-- the battery terminal to fusible link. It had corroded internally inside the plug, so two of the three links weren't getting much, if any power. Of course, checking voltage with it unplugged meant that it read full voltage, because you read full bus voltage right before an open.... Luckily I was able to get two from the junkyard that are in great shape. One on the 61, and the other one a spare for it and my 60. Hopefully we never use them.

...but the headlight/heater issue continues. I'll be troubleshooting today. I'm guessing behind the gauge cluster is my culprit...

Dan

 

[DoubleNickels]

Any news? Fighting the same issue... Sub zero temps here in Boise today, perhaps contributing to the elusiveness of these electrical gremlins.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Any news? Fighting the same issue... Sub zero temps here in Boise today, perhaps contributing to the elusiveness of these electrical gremlins.

Funny you should ask. I finally got home yesterday and went to tackle this, despite the couple feet of snow I'd have to work around.

Started the truck up to pull out a stuck vehicle, and figured I might as well try it out--the problem is gone.

That's really not good, since now I can't find it. I know it exists, but everything is working perfectly again. On the plus side, that probably means it's a loose or dirty ground (instead of a fried ground under the dash), but the grounds are all clean and tight. So......

Dan

 

[DoubleNickels]

You and I are living in parallel universes. Boise got COLD this last month, which is when the issue arose for me. It went away last week when the sun came out.

I'm not so sure that points to a loose or dirty ground - lots of electrical connections and bundles can swell/shrink/eff-things-up when the temperature swings. I personally plan to pull the dash in the next week or so and have a look around, plus I'm having a spare Fusible Link rebuilt by Coolerman to hedge my bets.

 

[AllLC]

When you re-grounded everything did you happen to solder any of the connections- if yes its possible one of your grounds is almost broke. hanging on by a thread and intermittent. And of course if you notice some of the problem when its cold it could be your battery just isn't capable of pushing the juice thru a thread when its this cold out side.

I hate those Damn gremlins! Just flushed out one of my own on my wifes 2008 Rabbit.

it is fun when you finally corner the little bastards!

Happy Hunting! Stay Warm.

 

[BCMitch]

Well I vowed from now on to ask the obvious questions first.

1. Did you cut any wires before this happened?
2. Did you change anything prior to this?
3. Did you install any new lights or brighter bulbs?

If no, no, yes, then remove the gauge cluster and look for a junction connector in the wiring harness with a lot of ground wires joining up together. That's a common fail point.

Most of the cab electrics ground together at a cheesy light duty connector (behind the gauges). When that thing starts to burn up over the years, the connector's resistance goes up and the ground starts finding other places to flow through. Sometimes other components.

That's where I'd look.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I am dealing with some gremlins as well... I've had my FJ60 for 3 months, and have some weird electrical symptoms:
- Both blinker lights turn on and stay on any time I flip an electrical switch on (headlamps, fan, etc).
- Factory headlamp harness was bypassed / jerry rigged by PO; I tried using the old factory H4 connectors... lights flickered on / off and then I started to smell burnt rubber (feel like this may be a separate / non-related shorting issue)
- When I pulled back the instrument cluster, one of the connectors in the dash looked halfway melted (the connector was covered in melted electrical tape; I got scared off and stopped poking around when I found this)
- All the electronics seem to lack oomf... e.g., the AC/heat fan speed is pretty much the same across on all settings, headlamps were super dim, washer motor barely squirts out fluid, etc.
- Drop in temps have definitely made the issues worse overall / more noticeable

What color are the ground wires you mention? Do i just need to replace that connector so that the ground is restored fully?

Separately, I just replaced the fusible link with a new OEM one (old one looked pretty beat up) and I'm going to bypass the factory harness for my headlamps and just connect the low beams to an aux harness (w relay / fuse) + fog lamp switch so I can at least drive the truck in the dark... still would like to figure out the root cause of these issues / gremlins though

 

[Output Shaft]

Go back behind the dash and open up that burned up connector. Solder all the white & back wires together and do the same with the blue ones.

 

[BCMitch]

Go back behind the dash and open up that burned up connector. Solder all the white & back wires together and do the same with the blue ones.

Sounds good. Will give this a shot over the weekend. Thank you!

 

[Output Shaft]

This is the connection that has burned up. All the wires join up here and are connected together. The headlights burned it up. You will be able to see what going on when you peel it apart.

If you fix this, most likely all your electric stuff will work as it should.

 

[BCMitch]

This is the connection that has burned up. All the wires join up here and are connected together. The headlights burned it up. You will be able to see what going on when you peel it apart.

If you fix this, most likely all your electric stuff will work as it should.

Got it - and yes that connection is the one that was all melted

This is going to be quite the soldering exercise... I assume its okay to just create one big soldered connection (black/white + blue), in lieu of using the damaged plastic connector? Then do my best to insulate it with dielectric grease / electrical tape?

 

[gregnash]

Got it - and yes that connection is the one that was all melted

This is going to be quite the soldering exercise... I assume its okay to just create one big soldered connection (black/white + blue), in lieu of using the damaged plastic connector? Then do my best to insulate it with dielectric grease / electrical tape?

This may sound dumb but could you do all of these to a large fuseblock/busbar to save yourself some hassle. What about a few weatherpack connections for those ones that are broken or burned up.. Not familiar with this particular plug at the moment so I don't know what it is plugging into.

 

[DoubleNickels]

Through all this, curious if anyone can chime in regarding FJ62's? I've seen others post images similar to that posted by @Output Shaft , but nothing specific to a 62. I'll know soon if 62's use a similar plug, similar location, with similar issues.. I'll report back.

-Calvin

 

[Output Shaft]

I'm not sure if the blue wires connect to the black wires. I know all the blue connect together and all the black connect together. Examine the terminal to see how they join.

I was able to clean up the contacts of that part and reuse it. I didn't solder. Though I've heard others have.

Pull all the black wires out of that connector and see what you've got. Figure out a way to join them that will work for you. A small grounding bus terminal might work if there is enough wire room. Not sure about that.

 

[DanS HJ-45]

This is the connection that has burned up. All the wires join up here and are connected together. The headlights burned it up. You will be able to see what going on when you peel it apart.

If you fix this, most likely all your electric stuff will work as it should.

View attachment 1381269

This is precisely the connector I suspect.

I did solder additional things into some of the larger ground wires here, but I also ran an additional ground strap from that soldered connection. The soldering was done well, using western union joints properly done. I've got thousands and thousands of joints like this in my trucks, and not once has one failed me, with well over 350,000 miles on the vehicles, a lot of it on pretty rough roads.

My money is on the connector being burned about like this one.

Dan

 

[DoubleNickels]

Confirmed, FJ62's have the same connector, same issue. It doesn't look like ALL the wires are connected together, more like half share a common metal plate, the other half share another common plate. Here's mine: