Folks:
Considering this....Experiences? Comments?
Considering this....Experiences? Comments?
Elec. fan
- Thread starter bkgiii
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- Thread starter
- #4
Well.............................good question...........short answer is that I've always been told there is an ever-so-slight HP/efficiency gain.
Do I sense that going electric is NOT a worthwhile mod?
I don't know about thier contributions to Cruisers from personal experience or from hearing about them from others, but they are not an uncommon mod on other Toyota pickups and 4Runner's.
They give a horsepower gain because it is less drag on the engine. And you can wire up a switch in the cab to turn on/off the fan when going through water. When going through water the fan blades will bend and hit the radiator.
I say go electric.
They give a horsepower gain because it is less drag on the engine. And you can wire up a switch in the cab to turn on/off the fan when going through water. When going through water the fan blades will bend and hit the radiator.
I say go electric.
- Thread starter
- #6
.......and........uh.......a cool engine is a happy engine?
Seriously, the other reason I'm told is to ensure appropriate airflow (read: move more air) when at idle, stuck in traffic, etc.
SPAL....hadn't heard of that.
Seriously, the other reason I'm told is to ensure appropriate airflow (read: move more air) when at idle, stuck in traffic, etc.
SPAL....hadn't heard of that.
electric fan = bad idea
stock is fine so long as your viscous clutch is working ok
stock is fine so long as your viscous clutch is working ok
http://members.cox.net/desertcruiser/spal_fan.jpg
Again, I dont see a place for an electric fan on these vehicles.
The above url is a pic of my SPAL fan I installed when I did a V8 swap in another vehicle(ok, it's a jeep). See the little flaps on the top and bottom of the shroud...12 total. Those open up at freeway speeds and allow air to flow through. Most electrics with a shroud dont have this provision and will actually hinder air flow and significantly reduce cooling at freeway speeds.
Do a Google search for SPAL Fans and you will find plenty of info. Trust me, I have learned the hard way. Like I said, do it right the first time and go with a quality fan.
More info to dissuade you....
A 1984 Camaro with a 4-cylinder engine comes with an electric cooling fan. The standard radiator for the 4-cylinder Camaro is the same as in a Chevrolet 1/2 ton full size truck with a 305 V8. The truck is heavier than the Camaro and has an engine that is literally twice the size, yet both come equipped with the same radiator core.
You would think that the truck would overheat with the “4-cylinder radiator core”. The truck does not overheat because it uses an engine-driven cooling fan combined with a well designed fan shroud to effectively draw air through the radiator. The electric cooling fan in the Camaro cannot draw as much air through the radiator, and would be inadequate in the truck.
Good Luck,
Larry
Again, I dont see a place for an electric fan on these vehicles.
The above url is a pic of my SPAL fan I installed when I did a V8 swap in another vehicle(ok, it's a jeep). See the little flaps on the top and bottom of the shroud...12 total. Those open up at freeway speeds and allow air to flow through. Most electrics with a shroud dont have this provision and will actually hinder air flow and significantly reduce cooling at freeway speeds.
Do a Google search for SPAL Fans and you will find plenty of info. Trust me, I have learned the hard way. Like I said, do it right the first time and go with a quality fan.
More info to dissuade you....
A 1984 Camaro with a 4-cylinder engine comes with an electric cooling fan. The standard radiator for the 4-cylinder Camaro is the same as in a Chevrolet 1/2 ton full size truck with a 305 V8. The truck is heavier than the Camaro and has an engine that is literally twice the size, yet both come equipped with the same radiator core.
You would think that the truck would overheat with the “4-cylinder radiator core”. The truck does not overheat because it uses an engine-driven cooling fan combined with a well designed fan shroud to effectively draw air through the radiator. The electric cooling fan in the Camaro cannot draw as much air through the radiator, and would be inadequate in the truck.
Good Luck,
Larry
BK,
I've ran my dual electric fans on my Tacoma for over three years with ZERO problems in the Desert of Southern New Mexico. I did notice a slight gain with my S/C'd engine. As far as hindering airflow at freeway speeds, I have a light wired to tell me when it is on and on the road it rarely comes on. At the lights and slow traffic is where comes on. I'm considering it for my '97 (as soon as I finish all the other mods!)
I say go for it.
I've ran my dual electric fans on my Tacoma for over three years with ZERO problems in the Desert of Southern New Mexico. I did notice a slight gain with my S/C'd engine. As far as hindering airflow at freeway speeds, I have a light wired to tell me when it is on and on the road it rarely comes on. At the lights and slow traffic is where comes on. I'm considering it for my '97 (as soon as I finish all the other mods!)
I say go for it.
I wish Photoman was feeling better. He has a very expensive electric fan set-up on his 80 that he is taking out and re-fitting the belt driven fan. If he were up to it, he could better explain why he is going this route. I do know that it is not on a whim that he is doing so.
I have an OEM off shore auxilary fan that was used on dual A/C equipped 80 series in other countries. It mounts to existing points on the condensor and vertical lock brace and looks and fits factory because it is. I have it on it's own 20 amp circuit and I switch it on when I feel I need it. I leave it on when I tow and also when the A/C is on. I do notice that the A/C seems to work better in low vehicle speed instances when the fan is operating.
D-
I have an OEM off shore auxilary fan that was used on dual A/C equipped 80 series in other countries. It mounts to existing points on the condensor and vertical lock brace and looks and fits factory because it is. I have it on it's own 20 amp circuit and I switch it on when I feel I need it. I leave it on when I tow and also when the A/C is on. I do notice that the A/C seems to work better in low vehicle speed instances when the fan is operating.
D-
Cdan,
Can you post more info on that offshore setup? Like a few pics of how you have it set up. That could come in handy with all the heat the s/c puts out combined with the summer and either towing or wheeling hard.
thanks
k = +1
Can you post more info on that offshore setup? Like a few pics of how you have it set up. That could come in handy with all the heat the s/c puts out combined with the summer and either towing or wheeling hard.
thanks
k = +1
- Thread starter
- #12
Yeah, Dan....Junk beat me to the punch. Towing's a driver in my consideration here. I'd be interested in pic, availability, $$, etc.
Also, thanks on the brake question...the Gulf South guy looked at me in disbelief...
Also, thanks on the brake question...the Gulf South guy looked at me in disbelief...
Lockd97,
The "hindering airflow at freeway speeds" issue is not resolved on your vehicle because the fan's not on at freeway speeds. The issue is a stationary fan (yours) at freeway speeds hinders full airflow. You have that issue.
Electric fans. They can be setup to provide more cooling at low engine speeds and because they shut down when not needed they provide a few more HP when they're shut down, and they can be shut off for deep river crossings if needed. That is the sum advantage to them.
Their costs can be significant to get a quality unit, and an electrical failure means the engine is cooked or you sit. If the engine's cooling system was properly engineered in the first place (an 80 for instance) then there's no need for such expense/risk. For my money, even a vehicle with an inadequate cooling system would be resolved a different way - say putting in a larger radiator.
Do some research on them before embarking on what can become a costly way to merely duplicate what you've already got.
DougM
The "hindering airflow at freeway speeds" issue is not resolved on your vehicle because the fan's not on at freeway speeds. The issue is a stationary fan (yours) at freeway speeds hinders full airflow. You have that issue.
Electric fans. They can be setup to provide more cooling at low engine speeds and because they shut down when not needed they provide a few more HP when they're shut down, and they can be shut off for deep river crossings if needed. That is the sum advantage to them.
Their costs can be significant to get a quality unit, and an electrical failure means the engine is cooked or you sit. If the engine's cooling system was properly engineered in the first place (an 80 for instance) then there's no need for such expense/risk. For my money, even a vehicle with an inadequate cooling system would be resolved a different way - say putting in a larger radiator.
Do some research on them before embarking on what can become a costly way to merely duplicate what you've already got.
DougM
FJ809496TLC
80 series addict
I am thinking about putting one in also. Had an experience driving through Arizona dessert at 107 deg. when we encountered heavy traffic due to an accident and had to sit for a good hour. A/C was running and I can see the thermometer needle getting close to the high mark so I end up turning the engine off. :-\
Let me tell you something. I have a LC with front and rear A/C and run it daily in tropical climate and heavy traffic with both A/C's on. I don't have an electric fan and my rig never overheats or shows the slightest sign of going to higher temperatures. So if your rig has a cooling problem it won't be fixed with a electric fan. There must be another major problem ???
Mike
Mike
FJ809496TLC
80 series addict
Mike, my 96 cooling system was in good condition. I used to live in the Philippines and I can tell you Arizona dessert is hot (dry heat). Maybe that was the difference. :-\
DougM,
<"The "hindering airflow at freeway speeds" issue is not resolved on your vehicle because the fan's not on at freeway speeds. The issue is a stationary fan (yours) at freeway speeds hinders full airflow. You have that issue.">
The fan is not stationary at freeway speeds. It free wheels due to the air comming through the radiatior. Full airflow is hindered in the stock configuration as well due to the fact it has to get by the stock fan which the shroud directs it too. The fancllutch is now always engaged.
<" They can be setup to provide more cooling at low engine speeds and because they shut down when not needed they provide a few more HP when they're shut down, and they can be shut off for deep river crossings if needed. That is the sum advantage to them.>"
More cooling at low engine speeds and also low vehicle speeds. This is important to me out wheelin in the middle of summer. Raises the limit before you overheat.
<"Their costs can be significant to get a quality unit, and an electrical failure means the engine is cooked or you sit. If the engine's cooling system was properly engineered in the first place (an 80 for instance) then there's no need for such expense/risk. For my money, even a vehicle with an inadequate cooling system would be resolved a different way - say putting in a larger radiator.>"
I agree, cost can be significant and that was one of the reasons I looked at it a long time. Electrical failure is a possibility and if you have a single fan you will sit. The likelyhood of both fans on a failing dual fan setup is low. If one fails, you simply can wire for the single fan to get you home. You are right about there is no need for the expense/risk but you can say that about the supercharger or just about any other mod if you get down to it. To each his own in that regard. BTW, anyone, who makes a larger radiatior for the 80 that is not custom built?
<"Do some research on them before embarking on what can become a costly way to merely duplicate what you've already got.">
I did my research. I went back and forth on this issue for a looog time. I guess you can say that I did 'merely' duplicate what I've already got. My '86 Celica has dual electric fans that TOYOTA deciced to install at the factory. 280,000 miles and thy still work fine.
In fact TOYOTA installed electric fans in all of their transverse mounted motors. I'm not convinced by your argument that I did the wrong/foolish thing. My experiences tell me the EXACT opposite. I will say this, if you mount the fans through the radiator with those ziptie like straps, you are looking for trouble. A BIG NO! The MUST be mounted where the radiator is mounted to the body.
I'd like to hear what happened to Photoman. I'd also like to see pics of that aux fan that C-Dan was mentioning. (stepping off the soapbox and having a
and sending one to DougM)
<"The "hindering airflow at freeway speeds" issue is not resolved on your vehicle because the fan's not on at freeway speeds. The issue is a stationary fan (yours) at freeway speeds hinders full airflow. You have that issue.">
The fan is not stationary at freeway speeds. It free wheels due to the air comming through the radiatior. Full airflow is hindered in the stock configuration as well due to the fact it has to get by the stock fan which the shroud directs it too. The fancllutch is now always engaged.
<" They can be setup to provide more cooling at low engine speeds and because they shut down when not needed they provide a few more HP when they're shut down, and they can be shut off for deep river crossings if needed. That is the sum advantage to them.>"
More cooling at low engine speeds and also low vehicle speeds. This is important to me out wheelin in the middle of summer. Raises the limit before you overheat.
<"Their costs can be significant to get a quality unit, and an electrical failure means the engine is cooked or you sit. If the engine's cooling system was properly engineered in the first place (an 80 for instance) then there's no need for such expense/risk. For my money, even a vehicle with an inadequate cooling system would be resolved a different way - say putting in a larger radiator.>"
I agree, cost can be significant and that was one of the reasons I looked at it a long time. Electrical failure is a possibility and if you have a single fan you will sit. The likelyhood of both fans on a failing dual fan setup is low. If one fails, you simply can wire for the single fan to get you home. You are right about there is no need for the expense/risk but you can say that about the supercharger or just about any other mod if you get down to it. To each his own in that regard. BTW, anyone, who makes a larger radiatior for the 80 that is not custom built?
<"Do some research on them before embarking on what can become a costly way to merely duplicate what you've already got.">
I did my research. I went back and forth on this issue for a looog time. I guess you can say that I did 'merely' duplicate what I've already got. My '86 Celica has dual electric fans that TOYOTA deciced to install at the factory. 280,000 miles and thy still work fine.
In fact TOYOTA installed electric fans in all of their transverse mounted motors. I'm not convinced by your argument that I did the wrong/foolish thing. My experiences tell me the EXACT opposite. I will say this, if you mount the fans through the radiator with those ziptie like straps, you are looking for trouble. A BIG NO! The MUST be mounted where the radiator is mounted to the body.
I'd like to hear what happened to Photoman. I'd also like to see pics of that aux fan that C-Dan was mentioning. (stepping off the soapbox and having a
and sending one to DougM)
[quote author=FJ809496TLC link=board=2;threadid=9865;start=msg88229#msg88229 date=1073748327]
Mike, my 96 cooling system was in good condition. I used to live in the Philippines and I can tell you Arizona dessert is hot (dry heat). Maybe that was the difference. :-\
[/quote]
Yes, I understand your case but there are others who have already issues when it starts to get warm outside. Furthermore I ran two A/C's most of the times at around 100F. Absolut no problems and in traffic jams too. Maybe I am just lucky !!
Mike
Mike, my 96 cooling system was in good condition. I used to live in the Philippines and I can tell you Arizona dessert is hot (dry heat). Maybe that was the difference. :-\
[/quote]
Yes, I understand your case but there are others who have already issues when it starts to get warm outside. Furthermore I ran two A/C's most of the times at around 100F. Absolut no problems and in traffic jams too. Maybe I am just lucky !!
Mike
Scott,
Thanks for the cold one! (burp).
The air coming through a non powered (off) electric fan is what is pushing the fan blades and slowing the airflow a bit. Versus a powered belt driven fan that is still pulling air actively through the radiator, the elec. strategy could be said to be "hindering" airflow.
And yes, Toyota and every manufacturer uses electric fans on transverse engines not by choice but because they must. That does not make them a superior way to cool an engine.
You can (and should) do whatever you please with your 80, and so should everyone. But I think it's a valid point that the 80's cooling system is highly capable in stock form and has zero cooling issues when properly maintained. Even FJ8094 above mentioning that his overheating 80's cooling system was in "good" shape doesn't stand up to logic. What is "good" condition? When you bought it, you changed the coolant? When you bought it, it didn't overheat? When you bought it the previous owner assured you the cooling system had been maintained properly? OR (and this is intentionally a big OR) did it mean he removed the radiator and had the core rodded out and professionally cleaned, then properly flushed the block several times and evaluated the fan clutch operation, then power washed the A/C condensor and put fresh radiator fluid in it?
Repeat after me - An 80's stock cooling system well designed and has lots of reserve capacity. If your 80 is experiencing a cooling issue, then either troubleshoot it yourself or take it to someone who can.
Electric systems are a fine choice when a stock system simply isn't enough and I'd try to find room for a supplementary fan myself if I added a S/C. But I personally don't feel converting to an electric system is an appropriate first step to resolve a cooling issue on this vehicle because it is almost certainly due to a past or present maintenance issue.
DougM (burp)
Thanks for the cold one! (burp).
The air coming through a non powered (off) electric fan is what is pushing the fan blades and slowing the airflow a bit. Versus a powered belt driven fan that is still pulling air actively through the radiator, the elec. strategy could be said to be "hindering" airflow.
And yes, Toyota and every manufacturer uses electric fans on transverse engines not by choice but because they must. That does not make them a superior way to cool an engine.
You can (and should) do whatever you please with your 80, and so should everyone. But I think it's a valid point that the 80's cooling system is highly capable in stock form and has zero cooling issues when properly maintained. Even FJ8094 above mentioning that his overheating 80's cooling system was in "good" shape doesn't stand up to logic. What is "good" condition? When you bought it, you changed the coolant? When you bought it, it didn't overheat? When you bought it the previous owner assured you the cooling system had been maintained properly? OR (and this is intentionally a big OR) did it mean he removed the radiator and had the core rodded out and professionally cleaned, then properly flushed the block several times and evaluated the fan clutch operation, then power washed the A/C condensor and put fresh radiator fluid in it?
Repeat after me - An 80's stock cooling system well designed and has lots of reserve capacity. If your 80 is experiencing a cooling issue, then either troubleshoot it yourself or take it to someone who can.
Electric systems are a fine choice when a stock system simply isn't enough and I'd try to find room for a supplementary fan myself if I added a S/C. But I personally don't feel converting to an electric system is an appropriate first step to resolve a cooling issue on this vehicle because it is almost certainly due to a past or present maintenance issue.
DougM (burp)
DougM,
I completely agree with everything you said except that I personally do not have a cooling problem. If there is a cooling problem, there is no way an electric fan will help or cure it. You must fix the problem with the system. I grew up in a radiatior and muffler shop and have seen many a coolant system not maintained whatsoever. People are suprised when you take off the tanks and show them why they are overheating. My one question is why did Toyota include a new fan with the S/C if there is extra capacity? Anyone? I'm just curious.
Doug, looks like the next round is on me too!
I completely agree with everything you said except that I personally do not have a cooling problem. If there is a cooling problem, there is no way an electric fan will help or cure it. You must fix the problem with the system. I grew up in a radiatior and muffler shop and have seen many a coolant system not maintained whatsoever. People are suprised when you take off the tanks and show them why they are overheating. My one question is why did Toyota include a new fan with the S/C if there is extra capacity? Anyone? I'm just curious.
Doug, looks like the next round is on me too!
