Dutch / European High Roof FRP

[aboisvert]

Hello.

I am hopefully about to get my first 70, a Euro 1991 HZJ73.

Where does your oil pressure gauge read? I got a driving video--and it's very low on the gauge. Should I just ignore it and get an aftermarket gauge or should I be worried? I have not paid for it yet.

It has a "high top" FRP top on it. Has anyone had one, seen one in the flesh, or know anything about them? Is the quality of them ok? Any downside? Any upside? I think they were common in Dutch trucks with no back seats.

I live in Maine, and the cruiser will be coming to hard winters and wet weather. Is the weather-stripping generally good on the FRPM tops, or should I plan on a reseal immediately? If I need to reseal, is there anything I need to know?

Timing belt is unknown. Fluids in the H55/Diffs/TC are old. Planning on addressing all of those and the water pump ASAP. My current driver is a 100. Is there anything 'like' the heather T I need to take care of immediately? Or is a visual inspection pretty much I need to assess rubber parts?

Looking forward to being part of the insanity!

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

In the Netherlands there are tax advantages for declaring a vehicle as a van/commercial which usually involves removing rear seats and raising the roof. If this is the case, it will have been done by a local workshop and is not original. So it's anybody's guess how it is bonded to the roof structure.

Factory oil pressure gauges are notoriously variable, so I would not worry too much about it.

EDIT: When you mention 'high top' FRP roof I assume you mean a modification of the standard FRP roof that came on the vehicle.

 

[FJBen]

Go for it

I have one of those I’ve been very slowly trying to turn into a pop top.

BJ74 Poptop, modular top camper or something - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/bj74-poptop-modular-top-camper-or-something.1214677/

 

[Felde]

Hi
Some pics would help here...
You should take a closer look on what that top is all about. There are all sorts around, from of local made full replacements to cut up original FRPs. How the bonding of the raised top part to the rest of the structure was done, is key (similar to what is of concern on any pop-top conversion).
If the lower structure is not original FRP top, fit of seals may be a concern.

I guess, it has a foldable windshield? Removable door tops or not?

I'd say: Get it to your place and check the seals and go from there. It's highly recommended to fold down the windshield and check for rust between firewall and windshield frame. That requires removal if the FRP top anyways.
Most of the seals are readily available, except for some door seals for the removable door tops.
In your environment, a solid body conservation is more important. Invest in that.
Good Luck Ralf
(It didn't happen if there are no pics )

 

[aboisvert]

Thank you all for your thoughts. Let’s get some photos going.

I had no idea these were locally modified tops, I don’t mind the looks of it. Not sure would hurt or help resale, but I’m not planning on flipping it.

The windshield has the hinges, but not the hood brackets. Doors are all full height.
He had it painted, and the windshield was off it for the repaint. I saw that in a couple of pictures.

For you experienced guys, please have a look at the engine bay and the pics and let me know if you see any red flags! These things are not cheap when they left-hand drive!

 

[FJBen]

Thank you all for your thoughts. Let’s get some photos going.

I had no idea these were locally modified tops, I don’t mind the looks of it. Not sure would hurt or help resale, but I’m not planning on flipping it.

The windshield has the hinges, but not the hood brackets. Doors are all full height.
He had it painted, and the windshield was off it for the repaint. I saw that in a couple of pictures.

For you experienced guys, please have a look at the engine bay and the pics and let me know if you see any red flags! These things are not cheap when they left-hand drive!

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So your top just has a small cap on it, rather than a full cap like my spare top has. I mean, you can keep it, make some storage up there?

I would really like the see all the before pictures as you can see rusty/crusty bolts and engine pieces so I would want to make sure all the rust was mitigated correctly and not just bondo/patch.

I see a pusher fan on the front as well as an aftermarket radiator.

 

[aboisvert]

Seller says there was no rust on the body when he got it. He just wanted to change the color. And he wanted the interior modernized so he did seat covers and rear Trouppe style seats with no seatbelts. He said when I get there, there is “zero rust” under the body.

Here are the pictures he sent me of the work being done on it.

And the pictures that he sent me of when it was purchased when it was blue.

Please give me any feedback.

 

[aboisvert]

Here are the before pictures.

 

[aboisvert]

So your top just has a small cap on it, rather than a full cap like my spare top has. I mean, you can keep it, make some storage up there?

What is a pusher fan?
It does have aftermarket AC.

I would really like the see all the before pictures as you can see rusty/crusty bolts and engine pieces so I would want to make sure all the rust was mitigated correctly and not just bondo/patch.

I see a pusher fan on the front as well as an aftermarket radiator.

 

[Felde]

What is a pusher fan?

The electric fan sits in front of the radiator, behind the grill. It pushes air into the engine bay. Original would be a mechanical fan behind the grill, driven by the engine, with a visco clutch, pulling the air in.
Radiator appears to be Chinesium. Needs monitoring for overheating. The factory temp gauge isn't very accurate and may not indicate overheating quick enough. Head gasket check is advised.
Can be checked on location only, though.
Rest of it doesn't look terrible.
But 'no rust' at that age & milage is wishful thinking. Pics never tell the truth.
Pics of the undercarriage are required
Also check on how those back seats were fitted. This was a work vehicle and originally didn't have rear seats and also not the mounting points for seats.
also chevk the sparewheel carrier. Those rigs might have had the spare on the indide of the door. The carrier might got fitted later, which is problematic as the rienforcement inside the door doesn't support this.
My BJ73 was similar; the seats were just bolted through the floor, and the floor was cut for the latch, anx the reinforcement for the sparewheel carrier was a lump of wood. Doo.
Not kidding. Dutch engineering.
Be prepared to invest a bit; it's part of the game. I don't see any absolute red flags, though.
Good Luck Ralf

 

[FJBen]

What is a pusher fan?
It does have aftermarket AC.

That’s just the fan on the front of the radiator. So that would make sense to help cool the AC. However I can’t see if it still has the factory fan on, which is superior IMO on cooling these.

Those fans and a new radiator give me a little concern…was there an overheating incident because of a failed regulator? Is the ac causing the heat to rise a lot? It could be a nonissue.

I would say it needs a timing belt/waterpump asap, if it’s unknown. Might as well redo all the hoses/belts you can.

And if unknown, fuel filter, any cracking hoses any base lining you can do.



I also agree, the only rust free ones are full frame off restores. I see the crusty bolts and oxidized aluminum parts, I be very curious to see underneath. She looks solid, but my looks pretty sweet in pictures from 20’ as well

 

[joekatana]

So here are my 2 cents . The truck came from the Netherlands originally and that top part is glued on top of the oem top . I have thrown several of these on the dump already . No idea why the guy has a Belgian license plate surround on the front bumper . It looks like the quarter panels have been repaired or it might be an optical illusion with the door jambs painted . No oem interior parts not even the carpet usually means it was used hard and not maintained well . Never seen that type of ac compressor used . I think the wise decision to make is to book a ticket and go check it out in person .The oil pressure reading low is probably just a worn out sender and pretty common on these . Check for blow by to see what shape the 1HZ is in . The cruisers out of the Netherlands have usually very high mileage but some of them are extremely well maintaned mechanical and have spend most of their life at 55 mph on the highway with a trailer behind it , with this kind of use the 1hz's are a million mile engines but the output shafts on the transmissions do wear the splines out , their are solutions out there to fix this .

 

[Felde]

It looks like the quarter panels have been repaired or it might be an optical illusion with the door jambs painted

Agree. Hard to tell, but 'he just wanted to change the color' is a poor excuse. Pretty sure something rust repair was done somewhere.
Impossible to tell from pictures only how it was done.

I think the wise decision to make is to book a ticket and go check it out in person

2x
I own such a rig from a similar source. Be prepared for some surprise. And buying such a thing unseen and untested is always a gamble.
Good Luck Ralf

 

[aboisvert]

Wow, this group is great. I've had a 40, 60, 80, and now a 100 and I have never had this many responses which were helpful so quickly! Thank you all.

I've asked questions about he fans. He's going to send me undercarriage pics. He said he drove it in the rain yesterday and the FRP passenger side window let in some water. Can I still get seals for that? Is that a common issue? Easy to replace?

That spare tire hanger makes me nervous now. Is there any way to tell if it's factory once I have the car in person?

 

[joekatana]

Wow, this group is great. I've had a 40, 60, 80, and now a 100 and I have never had this many responses which were helpful so quickly! Thank you all.

I've asked questions about he fans. He's going to send me undercarriage pics. He said he drove it in the rain yesterday and the FRP passenger side window let in some water. Can I still get seals for that? Is that a common issue? Easy to replace?

That spare tire hanger makes me nervous now. Is there any way to tell if it's factory once I have the car in person?

on the non troopy 7x models all rear doors have the bracing for the spare tire carrier by default , only the troopies had the spare underneath in some cases

 

[aboisvert]

That’s just the fan on the front of the radiator. So that would make sense to help cool the AC. However I can’t see if it still has the factory fan on, which is superior IMO on cooling these.

Those fans and a new radiator give me a little concern…was there an overheating incident because of a failed regulator? Is the ac causing the heat to rise a lot? It could be a nonissue.

I would say it needs a timing belt/waterpump asap, if it’s unknown. Might as well redo all the hoses/belts you can.

And if unknown, fuel filter, any cracking hoses any base lining you can do.



I also agree, the only rust free ones are full frame off restores. I see the crusty bolts and oxidized aluminum parts, I be very curious to see underneath. She looks solid, but my looks pretty sweet in pictures from 20’ as well

Seller just confirmed the normal fan is also in place in addition to the push-fans.

 

[Redline70]

Wow, this group is great. I've had a 40, 60, 80, and now a 100 and I have never had this many responses which were helpful so quickly! Thank you all.

I've asked questions about he fans. He's going to send me undercarriage pics. He said he drove it in the rain yesterday and the FRP passenger side window let in some water. Can I still get seals for that? Is that a common issue? Easy to replace?

That spare tire hanger makes me nervous now. Is there any way to tell if it's factory once I have the car in person?

Re: spare tire, I’m sure you could side-by-side visually compare what is on there vs. known factory fitted spare tire. To be sure, you can carefully pop the interior door card/panel off that barn door using a plastic body trim removal tool. You might risk breaking an old (but easily replaceable) plastic clip or two, but you’ll be able to see clearly whether the interior cavity of the door has reinforcement, or not.

I don’t have an example of a door with a non-OEM tire, but I think @Felde has one with his lump of wood on his build thread. Here’s a stripped down FZJ70. I don't have a picture of with the right angle to show inside the door, but essentially that area in the middle of the barn door has reinforcing metal welded in, parts of which run on a perpendicular plane to the skin of the door, so you cannot put your arm into the door cavity through one hole and out the other. This holds the load of the tire.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Just to add my opinion. When looking at a used Cruiser I'm typically looking for originality so would probably pass this one, but if you're just after a working example and plan to modify it, then it may be a good choice, particularly if it's well priced.

Understand that the Netherlands is a small country as flat as a pancake with roads as smooth as a snooker table. There is absolutely zero potential for off-roading and a Land Cruiser seems like a very odd car to own there. But as I mentioned earlier, this will almost certainly have been registered as a commerical and as Joe said will likely have spent its life towing, probably a mini digger to work sites or a hot dog (or worse) caravan to the local town square.

While the Dutch climate is not great for cars and they do salt the roads in winter, the Netherlands has pretty high stadards for technical inspection (APK) which is done annually for a car that age. I don't think it's as strict as the German equivalent, and you can usually find a garage that will overlook certain mnor faults, but it should be technically sound. You can ask if it has a current APK. You won't be getting a Latin American Cruiser with an exhaust made of soft drink cans and a chassis held together by paint, with a tired 1HZ in what was originally a 1FZ vehicle etc etc.

 

[Felde]

Re: spare tire

One can recognize the door version for carrying the spare tire inside just by looking at it: It has two threaded holes on the inner side of the door body, between the glass and the upper edge of the door card. One or two more threads are through the door card, but might be covered up. (I'll get a pic of mine later).

My 5ct on this specimen:
I'm with @Eurasiaoverland. This rig appears to be in reasonable condition for someone that wants a Landcruiser to straight away use it (assessment of the undercarriage pending, though). Not a collectors item. Not a store of value. Maybe ready to use, but certainly more investment will be needed to make it durable. Kind of a rolling project.
This is for somebody who a) doesn't have the $$$ to buy a proofed good one, or b) doesn't have the resources to fix up a rig himself, thus have to relay & trust on work done by others.
My personal story is b), thus I got mine from a similar source, in similar condition. Turned out with mixed results on mine: Frame, Engine, Driveline good, Rust protection not existent, Electrics good, Interior acceptable, Bodywork OKish (time will tell), Some surprises (holes cut in floor and B-hoop), Paintwork crap, Suspension & tiers shot (got replaced within a year after purchase).
Buying anything like this unseen is always a risk. You can only mitigate this by inspecting the vehicle personally, investing how trustworthy and reputable the seller is, or by negotiating the price.
I personally wouldn't buy a rig I haven't seen in person, but that's just me.
Cheers Ralf

 

[aboisvert]

Pending undercarriage photos, I am planning on flying to see the cruiser and drive it home if I like it ) and it does not look too hacked up in person. From all of the knowledge which has been shared, it seems like my biggest concerns are with the modified top and the interior not being stock. The aftermarket AC/fans may be a PITA to manage,, but I believe everything else looks stock.

How are you guys feeling about pricing for this? Anyone care to drop a number that they think is 'fair', which I can use to assess my negotiations? Feel free to PM me if you don't want to put it in public. I personally don't have an issue with driving a RHD (I have a Toyota RHD TownAce 4x4 Camper), but if I can get a LHD for only moderately more money it seems like the smarter move.

I'm buying to drive it. I've been driving Cruisers since my 40 series I got when I was 22 years old. I'm now 50 and I have NEVER not owned a cruiser alongside my other vehicles. I'll keep my 100 for the time being, but it's so good its BORING. My youngest will be driving in 2 years and she can take the 100 if the 73 is treating me well.

I like working on easy stuff like brakes, oil changes, alternators, and minor troubleshooting. I am not interesting in engine/tranny rebuilds myself. I would send that out. Axles I have not done but am happy to try. Anything that comes to Maine is coming here to eventually rust away, unfortunately.

So from Felde, I'm too poor to drop 45K on a perfect LHD one that's pristine...just to come here and get it salted to death. If I can get 20 years out of what I buy I'll be 70 and I can make more bad choices then!

If you send me your 'Fair Price", I'll share my purchase price with you if I end up with it!