Drop in altitude Drop in MPG??

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Drop in altitude Drop in MPG??

I was shocked to see 14.02 MPG while descending from Sweetwater TX 2,380ft to San Antonio 723ft elevation, 14.16 MPG on return.

What happen to my MPG?
What can I do to improve MPG?

Denver CO to Dalhart TX - 15.97mpg, dry, 70F / return: 15.64mpg, rain 70% of time, 55F
5280 ELEV to 3983 ELEV

Dalhart TX to Sweetwater TX – 14.63mpg, rain 30%, 70F / return: 15.40mpg, dry, 88F.
3,983 ELEV to 2,380 ELEV

Sweetwater TX to San Antonio TX – 14.02mpg, rain 60%, 70F / return: 14.16mpg, dry, 85F.
2,380 ELEV to 723 ELEV
 
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What octane are you using? Is the content the "contains 10% ethanol" mixture? Do you use cruise control all the time? I regularly commute through the dalhart area usually diagonal the opposite direction hell paso to Kansas/Nebraska area. Also speed kills me if I follow the 75mph on two lane which is the limit for part of the route I travel.
 
I use premium Shell gas, except one tank on the return from San Antonio I used mid grade. Shell gas states "may contain 10% ethanol" or some S*&t. Used cruise control 99% of time set at 80mph. Each of the three legs different mpg but similar on return. Extra resistance from water/rain may account for some of the slight difference (similar) on return, along with air conditioner use. What mpg are you getting bwell?
 
Your mileage is ranging from about 14 to 16mpg, doesn't seem to correlate to altitude much. That variation could easily be due to just variarions in operating conditions other than altitude (elevation).

The 1999 LX470 curb weight is about 5500 lb, with heavy running gear, I expect the 2001 LC weighs nearly the same. It takes a lot more energy to accelerate and push it up a hill then something like a Honda Accord which weighs a little more than half of a 100 with a fraction of the running gear inertia. The 100 series fuel economy is going to be more sensitive to effects of acceleration and hills.

I see about a 2 mpg variation from tank to tank driving my LX around the same general area. I chalk this up to varying driving patterns, gas quality (including ethanol percentage), and "measurement error" mainly consisting of tank-to-tank fill up actual and indicated gallons variation.

The gas measurement error is also why I figure it makes sense to round to nearest mpg. Four significant digits does not make sense here. I get "about 16 to 19 mpg", not the 16.36 to 19.24 or whatever I have measured. That's about the best precision this measurement system merits. (Lots of uses of the word "about" when we talk about mpg...)
 
I use premium Shell gas, except one tank on the return from San Antonio I used mid grade. Shell gas states "may contain 10% ethanol" or some S*&t. Used cruise control 99% of time set at 80mph. Each of the three legs different mpg but similar on return. Extra resistance from water/rain may account for some of the slight difference (similar) on return, along with air conditioner use. What mpg are you getting bwell?
I always use premium if available. Pretty much always get 14 to 15 mpg. I did experience just over 17 mpg coming down the mountains in North Carolina losing elevation all the way into South Carolina recently. I think given your speed and using cruise control your mileage is normal. I usually only use cruise control on flat terrain, and "drive the hills" so to speak, slight acceleration going down and lightly letting up coming up them. Trying to not down shift coming up, I've found loaded down with family and vehicle full I almost always get 15 mpg doing this. Part of this is for my peace of mind trying to just baby a original transmission with 156,000 miles. Since I've owned it I don't know that it has seen the other side of 75 mph. Loaded down last month with 5000lbs plus trailer I was still able to average over 14mpg over 1000 miles.
 
I got 18.5 mpg on a 400+ mile trip from Colorado to Phoenix last week - doesn't get much better than that. I drive the posted speed limit (too old to be in a hurry...). 17ish mpg is more typical for me on the highway.
 
Wind is also a large variable. Easy to loose several mpg with a headwind or gain mpg with wind at your back.
 
I don't know all the variables you were dealing with that effect efficiency. But I can say at cruising speeds, the majority of the energy spent, and hence mpg, is impacted by aerodynamic drag. Higher altitudes obviously has less atmosphere to push against. So this is potentially one of the major variables in your observations.
 
Fuel injected/computerized, not a carburetor. From my limited knowledge, I always thought the computer would eventually make adjustments to compensate for the higher altitude (aka decreases O2 and changes in partial pressure). The human body does and these Land Cruisers are way better and smarter than us humans...more reliable too. GO AMERICA!
 
You've basically asked 2 questions; What happened to my mpg? and What can I do to improve mpg? From the numbers you've posted, I would say the answer to the first question is nothing. I think those numbers are well within normal variability, based on all the factors that affect mpg. The answer to the second question is more complicated. Many have asked here on MUD and a search with the terms "gas mileage" or "mpg" will get you an evening of reading posts with ideas. At the top of the list are driving habits and vehicle maintenance.
 
The higher in elevation you go, the less oxygen (lower atmospheric pressure) so the computer injects less fuel to keep the mixture right. Back in the day, cars sold in Colorado had smaller jets in the carburetors to compensate for the altitude. Occasionally, people visiting from sea level would have their cars stall out on some of the higher mountain roads because the fuel mixture became too rich.

The trade off is you also lose power the higher you go, I believe it is 3% drop per 1000 feet in elevation gain. That means if you live in Denver, your car has 15% less power than at sea level. At the Eisenhower Tunnel on I-70, you are down to 2/3 the power you would have at sea level.
 
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The higher in elevation you go, the less oxygen (lower atmospheric pressure) so the computer injects less fuel to keep the mixture right. Back in the day, cars sold in Colorado had smaller jets in the carburetors to compensate for the altitude. Occasionally, people visiting from sea level would have their cars stall out on some of the higher mountain roads because the fuel mixture became too rich.

The trade off is you also lose power the higher you go, I believe it is 3% drop per 1000 feet in elevation gain. That means if you live in Denver, your car has 15% less power than at sea level. At the Eisenhower Tunnel on I-70, you are down to 2/3 the power you would have at sea level.
Let us assume this is age related. Any guesses on what components I should pay special attention to correct?

Note: I do not have mpg computer readout. I fill tank to top every time I get gas, squeezing the handle three time to really top out tank (not recommended) and record in spread sheet the gallons and miles. Have been doing this for last 11 years (purchased in 2004 w/60K).

Some here have suggested it was my driving habit other feel the mpg was within range, I disagree. Where yes the up and down hill, wet roads, dry etc. will and did make difference, this does not explain difference I saw. Fact return leg out of SA TX and last leg up to Denver were both ascending, in addition leg to Denver was rainy wet roads for 70% of time. This last leg should have taken more torque/HP and should have been the worst mpg, with resistance of water/rain and pushing up hill.

I've always keep my LC at top notch condition end to end doing all FMS maintenance timely. I've only taken on one other road trip out of COLO before this trip, which was to LV NV. The mpg was as expected on that trip. Only differences were 6 years older and 40K more miles (120K on odometer then) and I used a K&N filter back then.

BudgetLC: I agree the CPU leans gas mixture at higher altitude, and doesn't it also adjust timing. But wouldn't I need less torque/HP to achieve same speed at lower altitude as I'd have more available power. When climbing up I-70 to Eisenhower I need to keep speed up pressing the gas pedal more and more as power noticeable drops, this is an mpg killer.

I'm thinking the computer or sensor input like o2s, mass air flow or something downstream like injectors are not adjusting fast enough. Note: I found (about two years ago) after developing the dreaded vibration at stop lights/sign, that resetting the CPU by disconnecting battery, each year (in the fall as gas change to winter blend) was key to eliminating the vibration. I've read it takes about three tanks for CPU to adjust to changes in gas grade, but I did expect real time adjust for altitude by the CPU system.

I expected better mpg at lower altitude when setting cruise control at a constant speed. As I'd need less HP or have more power available for same speed. Note: I noticed less power one time when I punched it to pass at a lower altitude, this concerned me. MPG is rated at sea level IIRC and I've always expected slightly lower mpg at higher altitude. I understand the CPU is to correct the mixtures accordingly and timing, as we once had to do by changing jets and timing. Could it be the CPU is taking to long to adjust for some reason?

Drops in mpg always concerns me as it can indicated tune up is needed, it is the main reason I watch mpg. My LC has always had all FSM done timely, and was in top condition for this trip. I suspect ageing component(s), but which one(s) can I check, replace or repair to correct this? My biggest concerns are: mixture too rich on fuel side washing cylinder walls or too lean running hot (which temp gage will not show in the LC).

Let us assume this is age related. Any guesses on what components I should pay special attention to test & correct this issue?
 
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All other things being equal, I still contend that altitude can play a significant roll in gas mileage. Even though you have more power in the thicker air, you also need more power to push through it. I believe that air drag is an exponential curve (rolling resistance is linear) so the faster you go, the greater effect aerodynamic drag has on your power needs. Since the 100's aren't the most aerodynamic vehicles, the thicker air at lower altitude would have an effect on you mpg at highway speeds. If you had driven the same trip at 70, you might have not noticed as large of percentage drop. FWIW, I usually experience a 5-10% drop in mpg at lower elevations regardless what vehicle I'm driving.

In the end, this is an academic argument with lots of variables and formulas that quickly exceed my limited abilities. I would keep track of my mpg under normal conditions, if there is a drop over several tanks, then I would worry about there being a problem. Keep in mind seasonal differences, I get 10% less gas mileage in winter than summer.
 
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One important thing to know is the gas station owners all have "gilbarco keys" and once the state calibrates the pump and leaves they open the pump and simply turn a wheel that decreases the volume of "product" per gallon displayed. I worked for a state contractor in high school that repaired and replaced pumps and used to hear about how owners would change the pumps as soon as the inspector left.

You could buy a fuel metering tool i suppose and keep a better track of how much youre really pumping to the sled but hey easy come easy go.
 
Interesting DuckLN, but the "Gilbarco key" is not a consideration. MPG changed with altitude, this is clear by my logs of return trips close match.

BudgetLC, I too see a lower MPG in winter which I've contributed to winter gas blend and cooler air's effect (cold start ups). Cold air is also more dense than warm, so I suppose, based on your "atmospheric pressure" hypothesis, this also would have lowering affect on mpg.

LV., NV. & SA., TX. are very close in elevation above sea level, so is the distance from Denver. So this is very similar trip not including the climb over the Rockies. On the LV trip in October temps were around 55 to 70F. Humidity would have been similar form all but last leg near SA. TX., & LV NV so air density would have been similar most of trip.
On LV., NV. trip in 2009 MPG was as expected. Could Air density, gas blend & rigged pump meters explain it...I suppose. One other difference was a K&N air filter used on 2009 trip.

My MPG has been dropping slightly over the years. From average of 16.72Summer & 15.49Winter to 15.73S & 14.56W MPG combined City & HWY.

But WHY did I notice a drop in HP (power) at lower altitude on SA., TX. trip?

I'm looking for list of test I can perform that may show some weak spot that would explain my drop in MPG over the years & power. Anyone have some good ideas on what to test like compression......OR what else?
 
The higher in elevation you go, the less oxygen (lower atmospheric pressure) so the computer injects less fuel to keep the mixture right. Back in the day, cars sold in Colorado had smaller jets in the carburetors to compensate for the altitude. Occasionally, people visiting from sea level would have their cars stall out on some of the higher mountain roads because the fuel mixture became too rich.

The trade off is you also lose power the higher you go, I believe it is 3% drop per 1000 feet in elevation gain. That means if you live in Denver, your car has 15% less power than at sea level. At the Eisenhower Tunnel on I-70, you are down to 2/3 the power you would have at sea level.

X2. I've noticed this with all of my rigs over the years, elevation change in AZ happens pretty fast...the low desert (below sea level out west of Ajo) to Flagstaff (7K ish), etc...
 
X2. I've noticed this with all of my rigs over the years, elevation change in AZ happens pretty fast...the low desert (below sea level out west of Ajo) to Flagstaff (7K ish), etc...
7K isk ? Is that the elevation of Flagstaff ?
 
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