Don't let them have your 200

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Like the old Fox body Mustang 5.0 (five point slow) and the chipped Audi/VW 1.8T's feel great with a lot of low end torque but really pretty slow. Drivability is good though. Fools a lot of butt dynos.
Probably true. And it says hybrid on the back, so it must be green!
 
more interesting than this junk thread every month for sure

my cousin has the 5xx e bmw. They are the local secretary lease specials

very nice inside

i do miss my Z3M clownshoe

but that was a long time ago

we had to do radiator and cooling system and the subframe keep breaking before randy forbes came with solution

was surprise to see such junk quality having supra mr2 and nsx

hope your bmw treats you right and see you in LC heaven - at least we will get some peace there as aint gonna be no 250 owners there
Firstly I count myself very lucky to be able to enjoy and have the means for both fine vehicles.

BMW always has done a pretty good job with the 5 series. Together with the 3 series there bread and butter and certainly most 5 series are build in Dingolfing main plant in Germany. I always as a kid liked the understated yet capable 5 series including the M5, so once I had the money I got one and I loved the way the diesel pulled and sounded. Got it in Msport dress (nicer wheels, sportier suspension, much nicer steering wheel) with comfort seats and 360 surround view, soft closing doors, bunch of packages. Been trouble free except for the DPF...

Since I understand engines pretty well and I researched after purchase (I had moved back to the US, was in a hurry and it was more of a passion buy without proper research...) I would say the DPF and urea NOX cat systems are cancer to modern diesels. Great when new but all those crazy high temps during regen (1600 degr F exhaust temps which the turbo and engine room is exposed to as well) are cancer to the plastics, wiring and go together with fuel dilution, early turbo and bearing failures, urea metering valve plugging etc etc. No end to the potential issues of all these complex systems. Basically one big old mess. So when the dealer idled a near full tank of diesel out of warranty and plugged the DPF I went for a DPF/Urea/NOX cat delete and tune. This also keeps the EGR closed so no more soot build up in the intake manifold. Been absolutely amazing since. Awesome increase in power (258 to around 320) and torque (from 413 ft lbs factory to now around 530), about a 10% increase in MPG. The exhaust sounds like engine angels in heaven :rofl:

Like this, 0:15 onwards. Turbo whistle included. Inside equally quiet with the windows closed, which I like. I have had a colleague with an M3 who was jealous (and probably nice to me as well...)

P.S. I sometimes wish this straight six diesel is in the 200 series. Perhaps 4 liter with some more HP and torque. That would be heaven. But hey, they would have to supply with the emission system and kill the reliability.

 
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I recently had to replace the two turbos on my 5 series. Didn't have the time to do it myself. $6500 😢

I would not turbos on my Land Cruiser.... unless it was easily accessible because a trail fix would be nearly impossible. Book rate was 14hrs for that job.
 
I recently had to replace the two turbos on my 5 series. Didn't have the time to do it myself. $6500 😢

I would not turbos on my Land Cruiser.... unless it was easily accessible because a trail fix would be nearly impossible. Book rate was 14hrs for that job.
I hear you. I am happy with the 3UR-FE as is.
 
Firstly I count myself very lucky to be able to enjoy and have the means for both fine vehicles.

BMW always has done a pretty good job with the 5 series. Together with the 3 series there bread and butter and certainly most 5 series are build in Dingolfing main plant in Germany. I always as a kid liked the understated yet capable 5 series including the M5, so once I had the money I got one and I loved the way the diesel pulled and sounded. Got it in Msport dress (nicer wheels, sportier suspension, much nicer steering wheel) with comfort seats and 360 surround view, soft closing doors, bunch of packages. Been trouble free except for the DPF...

Since I understand engines pretty well and I researched after purchase (I had moved back to the US, was in a hurry and it was more of a passion buy without proper research...) I would say the DPF and urea NOX cat systems are cancer to modern diesels. Great when new but all those crazy high temps during regen (1600 degr F exhaust temps which the turbo and engine room is exposed to as well) are cancer to the plastics, wiring and go together with fuel dilution, early turbo and bearing failures, urea metering valve plugging etc etc. No end to the potential issues of all these complex systems. Basically one big old mess. So when the dealer idled a near full tank of diesel out of warranty and plugged the DPF I went for a DPF/Urea/NOX cat delete and tune. This also keeps the EGR closed so no more soot build up in the intake manifold. Been absolutely amazing since. Awesome increase in power (258 to around 320) and torque (from 413 ft lbs factory to now around 530), about a 10% increase in MPG. The exhaust sounds like engine angels in heaven :rofl:

Like this, 0:15 onwards. Turbo whistle included. Inside equally quiet with the windows closed, which I like. I have had a colleague with an M3 who was jealous (and probably nice to me as well...)

P.S. I sometimes wish this straight six diesel is in the 200 series. Perhaps 4 liter with some more HP and torque. That would be heaven. But hey, they would have to supply with the emission system and kill the reliability.


i always wanted a m5

but after my z3 m coupe fiasco did not have cojones do it

thus i went the isf-> rcf -> gsf route although i prefer the 3 pedals of the m cars
 
8k will result in death and destruction. I probably wouldn't even go down a steep hill with groceries in the back.

The weight doesn't matter to the test as long as it stresses the vehicle. The Taco 2.4 was pretty comparable if not better with 6500lbs than the lx570 on the ike test with 5,600 lb trailers. 6k on an extreme test might be plenty. 5600 was WOT to hold highway speed on the LX. So, 6500 might be enough to separate them in a measurable way.

Edit - I went back and checked the 2016 lc200. It couldn't climb Eisenhower pass with 5600 lbs in the std 8 min time. About 15 seconds slower than the 250 with 6000 and 40 seconds behind the Tacoma with 6500. If that test is a reasonable info source Tacoma no hybrid > 250 > 200.

On the downhill, the lc200 took 10 brake applications, 250 had 12 (with a bit heavier trailer). Does 400 lb matter? Probably not much. The v8 was a little better engine braking. But not much.

No projection needed. Just open eyes. The math matches the real world test. No surprises the turbo pulls better than the V8 at 11k feet. I think everyone should expect that. What is like at 6k or 8k is more interesting to me. Would be cool to see a similar test at a bit lower elevation and maybe summer heat.

While you're busy being an internet warrior, in the real world, the V8 brakes better. By a lot.

The 200-series doesn't have tow/haul logic and the engine is barely spinning for good braking in the TFL test. The fact that it's only 10 brake applications using barely 2k RPM shows that. Using sport mode, there's a good 2-3x more engine braking to be had. Unlike the 4 banger hybrid that's already worse, then decides to further give up when the battery fills up.

As one that actually tows 8k, there is no lack of power in the 5.7L V8. Again, no tow/haul logic and they're allowing the vehicle to fall way out of the power band where there's only about half the HP. What they need to do is use sport to hold a gear. TFL's uphill timing has never been a good metric subject to too many variables which is why the LX570 Ike test shows 7:43 versus the LC200 at 8:28.

Asking the LC250 to do what it wasn't designed for might end up like this




But seriously, go enjoy your LC250 for what it is. Stop trying to project what it is not. There's a bigger world out there and this new fangled LC250 is squarely in the lower end of the Land Cruiser lineup. Maybe it's all the marketing and review publications throwing around TNGA-F misnomers. Shared architecture is not shared parts. It's so mother Toyota has the modularity to outfit for different nameplates, trims, and price points. The GX550 and even the GXs before it would be much better suited for heavier lifting. Go punch up on those Jeeps and Broncos. Mother Toyota knows what she saves the best stuff for.
 
There's a bigger world out there and this new fangled LC250 is squarely in the lower end of the Land Cruiser lineup. Shared architecture is not shared parts.
I had to print it out and put it on my wall.

You don't always provide pithy comments, but when you do, its gold!
 
While you're busy being an internet warrior, in the real world, the V8 brakes better. By a lot.

The 200-series doesn't have tow/haul logic and the engine is barely spinning for good braking in the TFL test. The fact that it's only 10 brake applications using barely 2k RPM shows that. Using sport mode, there's a good 2-3x more engine braking to be had. Unlike the 4 banger hybrid that's already worse, then decides to further give up when the battery fills up.

As one that actually tows 8k, there is no lack of power in the 5.7L V8. Again, no tow/haul logic and they're allowing the vehicle to fall way out of the power band where there's only about half the HP. What they need to do is use sport to hold a gear. TFL's uphill timing has never been a good metric subject to too many variables which is why the LX570 Ike test shows 7:43 versus the LC200 at 8:28.

Asking the LC250 to do what it wasn't designed for might end up like this




But seriously, go enjoy your LC250 for what it is. Stop trying to project what it is not. There's a bigger world out there and this new fangled LC250 is squarely in the lower end of the Land Cruiser lineup. Maybe it's all the marketing and review publications throwing around TNGA-F misnomers. Shared architecture is not shared parts. It's so mother Toyota has the modularity to outfit for different nameplates, trims, and price points. The GX550 and even the GXs before it would be much better suited for heavier lifting. Go punch up on those Jeeps and Broncos. Mother Toyota knows what she saves the best stuff for.

The coolaid is strong!
 
While you're busy being an internet warrior, in the real world, the V8 brakes better. By a lot.

The 200-series doesn't have tow/haul logic and the engine is barely spinning for good braking in the TFL test. The fact that it's only 10 brake applications using barely 2k RPM shows that. Using sport mode, there's a good 2-3x more engine braking to be had. Unlike the 4 banger hybrid that's already worse, then decides to further give up when the battery fills up.

As one that actually tows 8k, there is no lack of power in the 5.7L V8. Again, no tow/haul logic and they're allowing the vehicle to fall way out of the power band where there's only about half the HP. What they need to do is use sport to hold a gear. TFL's uphill timing has never been a good metric subject to too many variables which is why the LX570 Ike test shows 7:43 versus the LC200 at 8:28.

Asking the LC250 to do what it wasn't designed for might end up like this




But seriously, go enjoy your LC250 for what it is. Stop trying to project what it is not. There's a bigger world out there and this new fangled LC250 is squarely in the lower end of the Land Cruiser lineup. Maybe it's all the marketing and review publications throwing around TNGA-F misnomers. Shared architecture is not shared parts. It's so mother Toyota has the modularity to outfit for different nameplates, trims, and price points. The GX550 and even the GXs before it would be much better suited for heavier lifting. Go punch up on those Jeeps and Broncos. Mother Toyota knows what she saves the best stuff for.

'' this new fangled LC250 is squarely in the lower end of the Land Cruiser lineup.''' Nah, its in the Center of the Land Cruiser series. Source: Toyota Launches All-New Land Cruiser "250" Series in Japan | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website - https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/40658942.html
1741601320767.png
 
Ummm....hate to break it to you bud...the US doesn't get the 70 series, so you just documented that the 250 is on the lower end of the lineup.

I mean come on guys....this argument is non-sensical. Just from a fiscal view, the 250 doesn't measure up. Why....because it doesn't cost as much to make. Why...because the components aren't as robust....which, in turn, means it isn't as good. Simple. Does this mean the 250 sucks? No, it doesn't. It's not all or nothing here.


There is a youtube video showing the thickness of the metal on components between the 250 and 200 (Tinkerer maybe? Not sure). Not even close. Again, does it mean the 250 components suck? No...just not as robust.
 
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Ummm....hate to break it to you bud...the US doesn't get the 70 series, so you just documented that the 250 is on the lower end of the lineup.

I mean come on guys....this argument is non-sensical. Just from a fiscal view, the 250 doesn't measure up. Why....because it doesn't cost as much to make. Why...because the components aren't as robust....which, in turn, means it isn't as good. Simple. Does this mean the 250 sucks? No, it doesn't. It's not all or nothing here.
''the US doesn't get the 70 series, so you just documented that the 250 is on the lower end of the lineup.'' The LC250 is positioned in the center of the Land Cruiser lineup whether we get the 70 Series or not. That’s Toyota’s positioning, not just opinion. 🍻
 
''the US doesn't get the 70 series, so you just documented that the 250 is on the lower end of the lineup.'' The LC250 is positioned in the center of the Land Cruiser lineup whether we get the 70 Series or not. That’s Toyota’s positioning, not just opinion. 🍻
If you can't do simple subtraction, that's on you.
 
If you can't do simple subtraction, that's on you.
This isn’t about subtraction, it’s about understanding Toyota’s lineup. This is a global platform and should be viewed through that lense because its the true lense, lets not refuse to acknowldge the big picture
 
'' this new fangled LC250 is squarely in the lower end of the Land Cruiser lineup.''' Nah, its in the Center of the Land Cruiser series.
You're conflating image position with build strength. To imply that the 250 is somewhere between the 300 and 70 isn't really what's going on.
 
How the rest of the world labels it...

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You're conflating image position with build strength. To imply that the 250 is somewhere between the 300 and 70 isn't really what's going on.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m simply stating that the LC250 is positioned in the middle of the lineup. which is a fact. nothing more, nothing less.
 
That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m simply stating that the LC250 is positioned in the middle of the lineup. which is a fact. nothing more, nothing less.
Middle of the picture, bottom of the lineup.
 
''Middle of the picture, bottom of the lineup.'' This is where you're mistaken. Toyota didn’t create a totem pole lineup. They made three Land Cruisers, each designed for different uses and needs. The LC250 is positioned in the middle as the practical choice.
 
This isn’t about subtraction, it’s about understanding Toyota’s lineup. This is a global platform and should be viewed through that lense because its the true lense, lets not refuse to acknowldge the big picture
The true lens is the one you have to look through...and in this case it is the US market lens. Your so called "big picture" is a red herring to anyone who lives in the US and totally meaningless.
 
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