Don't let them have your 200 (4 Viewers)

[Zill]

is your 20k same fake news as the 250 hatred?

Nah, the 250 hate is from real world experience. I wouldn’t wish that on any one who has come from a 200 lol.

And again, the 20k was from very early on when there weren’t many options. I’m sorry for having a little outdated info

 

[ryanCA]

Nah, the 250 hate is from real world experience. I wouldn’t wish that on any one who has come from a 200 lol.

And again, the 20k was from very early on when there wasn’t many options. I’m sorry for having little outdated info

please dont apologize

as a 200 owner, apologies dont suit you

 

[Zill]

please dont apologize

as a 200 owner, apologies dont suit you

Nah, I’ll apologize when I’m wrong. It’s nice to be humbled every once in a while. Especially by the master guru.

Anyway, back to the 250 hate lol.

 

[ryanCA]

Anyway, back to the 250 hate lol

party on garth!

 

[Endurbro907]

not 20k?!!!!!!!!!

If you exclude the happy ending, like a poor…

 

[Artie]

in the quote you quoted me I already told you I am a middle class loser

that would make me NOT a big dog

big dogs here have 16+ LC and HE badges

I am a loser with a 08 and halogens

you know those fat girls that hang with the hotties to get a piece?

i am that fat highlander sucking a new head gasket one at a time

Those fat gals usually do the same things as the hotties without the drama and expense… a lot like your 08 with halogens vs the 16+. No one can tell the difference if the lights are off and you aren’t wincing while taking on pinstripes while I might.

 

[2021 LC200]

Looking at the thread title, most owners who want an all round capable vehicle the 200 series is top of the hill and has one up on the 300 series having to proof reliability yet (and latest tech wise one down if that is your thing, not for me though). As such holding on or getting a second hand 200 looks to me for many use cases the better way than a new Toyota or Lexus product. Then there is the 250... As a follow up to the Prado/GX i get it and it has new tech (CarPlay and an iPad sticking up from the desl). Otherwise it is a significant step down in capability and feeling compared to the 200 series. Therefore (Ryan…) getting a used 200 series even a low mileage up to say $80k is worth a serious consideration. I would also argue depreciation is the 200 series friend, even with the few known maintenance issues which can easily be paid for considering the same. Lastly I enjoy modding/building my 200 to my like as I know it will last the next 25 years. Putting the hours and days of work and effort in feels great.

Have a great Sunday all and enjoy your Toyota(s)

 

[2021 LC200]

b itch slapping is not appropriate

I was just trying to imitate you …

 

[2021 LC200]

Here's the conclusion I've come to.
I could buy a new 250 1958, I've seen them marked down to ~$50k
Or I could buy a one owner cream puff 2016+ 200 for ~50k

I think it is very wise to cross shop for a 200 series as you get so much more, especially if you like to keep a vehicle for 10+ years instead of trading in every 3 to 4 years.

 

[OregonLC]

The only real beef I see is branding the 250 what it is. Or is not.

Not unlike Lexus branding.

What we call things, and the connotations and perceptions associated with them, is a big deal for many.

Agreed. While @cruiseroutfit correctly states the legacy use of the Land Cruiser name, over the last 30 years (in the US) it has been affixed only to the pinnacle of their fleet. When you bought a Land Cruiser you weren't buying just performance, but the pride of knowing you had something that was above all others. This was a hard-earned reputation that is now being traded in for sales volume. You didn't buy a Land Cruiser just for trail performance, you bought it because it was easily a 500k vehilce. With each closure of the door you heard and felt the satisfaction of the build. This is what the Land Cruiser buyer bought. That era has passed, at least for now.

But the 250 is still a really good truck. Once they've been out on the market for several years and used trucks start being available then Katy bar the door! They'll be in everyone's driveway because of their value and availability. It's hard for people to accept that both things can be true; that the 200 was a special something we'll never see again and that the 250 has high potential in it's own regard. That you love your 200 doesn't mean you can't also appreciate the 250.

 

[rexington14]

Where's the crystal ball telling you the LC250 can’t last 500k miles?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

…it is a significant step down in capability… …compared to the 200 series…

Do tell, what is your actual metric for “capability”? Are we talking row capacity and ergonomic family hauling or trail/off-road capability?

If the latter, can you share with me a trails or obstacles the 200 bests the 250 on?

I love the 200, I was en early adopter and we’ve proven what an amazing chassis it is through our race endeavors imo. But to call it more “capable” is misleading under most off-road premise standards imo. There are plenty of things to dislike about the 250 when comparing to the 200, off-road capability isn’t one of them. Durability, longevity, simplicity (relative), sure, but capability, meh.

 

[Zill]

Where's the crystal ball telling you the LC250 can’t last 500k miles?

We do know the hybrid battery will need to be replaced by then, but setting that aside, for me it’s not really about lasting 500k miles (as even your Corolla can do that), but it’s the feeling WHILE driving the 200 500k miles that really sets itself apart from the other options on the market. If I wanted a light feeling rig (where I know cost cutting was baked throughout the platform), then I would buy the already offered 4Runner. Driving the 200, and even 100 for that matter gives me that steadfast feeling where if I get in a wreck, I have enough mass to give my family the best chance to survive. It’s a 2500 class vehicle in the size of a midsize SUV.

The 250 is capable, I’ll give it that, but it doesn’t have the “it” factor which the previous gen cruisers had.

The 250 beauty is only skin deep, and it will sell well because of that (American priorities), but it’s not a replacement for the 200 and there’s greener pastures elsewhere.

 

[OregonLC]

Where's the crystal ball telling you the LC250 can’t last 500k miles?

Lighter build, turbo charged, hybrid batt, smaller diff size, etc. I have zero evidence to indicate it won't be a 500k vehicle. But there are a number of indicators that it isn't biased toward longevity as the 200 was. But it wins in lower price, quicker, more tech, etc. It's not inherently bad, but it's different.

 

[bj70bc]

as Ive said before the 250 is a 4runner that id actually buy.....but its a 4runner not a 200

 

[2021 LC200]

It indeed all depends what you want and whether you like the new looks. My usage case is wanting a vehicle to be able to do all of it well, from towing a decent size travel trailer to carrying our 18ft sailing kayak on the roof to being durable to being able to do trails and be comfortable including the rear seat space. The latest Prado/GX platform is not checking some of those boxes, perhaps the GX when (or sadly if) the 3.4 has no significant issues anymore. I think I rather buy say a model year 2028 LX600 or 700 second hand in or around 2032. Replacing my 2014 535d, not the 2021 LC200. That is planned to be owned until 2050 or there about.

 

[rexington14]

Lighter build, turbo charged, hybrid batt, smaller diff size, etc. I have zero evidence to indicate it won't be a 500k vehicle. But there are a number of indicators that it isn't biased toward longevity as the 200 was. But it wins in lower price, quicker, more tech, etc. It's not inherently bad, but it's different.

So mostly speculation, which is fine. It’s one thing to claim the 200 has a better overall build quality, but extending that to mean superior longevity and/or reliability is an overreach at this point, IMO.

One simply need to look back to the 5th gen 4Runner. The 4Runner cost over a 1/3rd less than the 200 (with much more than 2/3rds the capability?). It's a lighter build, and it has the 8.2" rear diff. It is also, without a doubt, a more reliable vehicle than a 200. Longevity seems equivalent, perhaps even better.

Turbos are nothing new, abuse it and lose it. With Toyota's continued investment in battery tech / production I wouldn't be surprised if in 10+ years when (if?) the 250 needs a new battery that job becomes quite insignificant in the grand scheme of ownership costs. In my area there are mobile mechanics putting in reconditioned batteries in Prius' for about a grand or so.

 

[OregonLC]

So mostly speculation, which is fine. It’s one thing to claim the 200 has a better overall build quality, but extending that to mean superior longevity and/or reliability is an overreach at this point, IMO.

One simply need to look back to the 5th gen 4Runner. The 4Runner cost over a 1/3rd less than the 200 (with much more than 2/3rds the capability?). It's a lighter build, and it has the 8.2" rear diff. It is also, without a doubt, a more reliable vehicle than a 200. Longevity seems equivalent, perhaps even better.

To that point, if the 250 would have had been built with the same design intent as a 5G4R then, in my opinion, it would be a better solution. The 1GR mated to an A750 is an truly incredible combination when it comes to longevity and durability. But at $65K buyers are cross-shopping the likes of Bronco, Ranger, Colorado, Canyon and expect some pep in the step. One could argue that the 1GR isn't competitive today, yet the 5G4R still sold strong into it's last months with there being more of a shortage than excess inventory to dump. But marketing put a turbo-hybrid in the 250 to achieve the trifecta goals of cost, performance, and fuel economy while also giving price justification to the GX with it's V6. I don't believe this was the same design priority as with previous Land Cruiser generations or with the 5G4R.

You call it speculation, I call it wisdom. A simple port-injected NA power plant has fewer failure points. Add the Turbo, most likely life-limited to 150k (and what happens when it fails and starts sharing metal with the lubrication system?) Add the complexity of GDI + port injection. Add the complexity of hybridization. I just don't see any way there isn't higher potential for issues and cost later in life. The only argument is where the risk lies. Is it at the $1k end of the spectrum or at the $20k end? Does it strand you on the trail or just result in a cost hit?

 

[bj70bc]

as Ive said before the 250 is a 4runner that id actually buy.....but its a 4runner not a 200

but i wouldnt buy a 4runner

 

[rexington14]

To that point, if the 250 would have had been built with the same design intent as a 5G4R then, in my opinion, it would be a better solution. The 1GR mated to an A750 is an truly incredible combination when it comes to longevity and durability. But at $65K buyers are cross-shopping the likes of Bronco, Ranger, Colorado, Canyon and expect some pep in the step. One could argue that the 1GR isn't competitive today, yet the 5G4R still sold strong into it's last months with there being more of a shortage than excess inventory to dump. But marketing put a turbo-hybrid in the 250 to achieve the trifecta goals of cost, performance, and fuel economy while also giving price justification to the GX with it's V6. I don't believe this was the same design priority as with previous Land Cruiser generations or with the 5G4R.

You call it speculation, I call it wisdom. A simple port-injected NA power plant has fewer failure points. Add the Turbo, most likely life-limited to 150k (and what happens when it fails and starts sharing metal with the lubrication system?) Add the complexity of GDI + port injection. Add the complexity of hybridization. I just don't see any way there isn't higher potential for issues and cost later in life. The only argument is where the risk lies. Is it at the $1k end of the spectrum or at the $20k end? Does it strand you on the trail or just result in a cost hit?

If you want to make the assumption that the 250 is going to be less reliable, or is less likely to last as long as previous Land Cruisers, then I believe that needs to be based purely on the complexity of the powertrain (as you've done here). However, this assumption also would apply to the top-of-the-line, no compromises made, "real Land Cruiser": LX700h. The "light-dutyness", lesser build quality, lack of "it" factor, of the 250 compared to the 200 has little to nothing to do reliability or longevity. (again, see 5th gen 4R compared to 200).

Even still, I don't really see anything particularly revolutionary, or groundbreaking with the 250. I see it more as a series of established and incremental innovation and improvements implemented in one package. Toyota D4S been out what, 10+ years now, in Highlanders, RX350s, Tacomas, etc? Again, turbos aren't new. Ford (lol) has been “eco-boosting” (turbo'ing) their truck platforms even longer? Toyota hybrid tech, even longer?

edit: too long