Dobinsons vs Ironman 4x4 2" springs

[Jkarow08]

Ahoy!

I was just about to buy Terrain Tamer parabolic springs for my '72 FJ40 from Georg at Cruiser Brothers, but while in the process, Cruiser Bros sold their business to Terrain Tamer/Don Kyatt. After I had already approved the estimate from Georg, Don Kyatt decided to increase my shipping cost by $175, bringing a set of springs, u-bolts, and bushings to over $2k shipped. The price was already high compared to every other option out there, but now that they want 2x other companies want, I don't think I can justify the extra expense to try the parabolics. Plus, I'm a man of principle, and jacking up the price 10% at the last minute didn't sit very well with me, and they showed no interest in honoring the quoted price I had already been given.

So that brings me to my question...Dobinsons and Ironman 4x4 are very similar in price and both seem to get good reviews. If you were going to pick between the two, which springs would you buy (2" lift)? Does anyone have pics of the shackle angles for both? I found one pic of the rear Ironman springs on a 40 and they looked long, creating a great shackle angle which is important for ride quality. Dobinsons seem to have a much more vertical angle on the other hand.

Thanks in advance for the input!

 

[peesalot]

Dobinsons IMO.
You may want to call Georg, I don';t think he sold Cruiser Brothers, I think they are Terrain Tamers US partner and for your springs it may have been faster/cheaper to get them to you from Don vs. a set making a trip to US then to you ? Georg is 1st class and does not get involved in shennanigans, He is most honest & helpful.

 

[Jkarow08]

Dobinsons IMO.
You may want to call Georg, I don';t think he sold Cruiser Brothers, I think they are Terrain Tamers US partner and for your springs it may have been faster/cheaper to get them to you from Don vs. a set making a trip to US then to you ? Georg is 1st class and does not get involved in shennanigans, He is most honest & helpful.

Thanks, I've been leaning toward Dobinsons because they seem to have more positive feedback, but the feedback out there on Ironman definitely seems positive too. Plus Dobinsons warehouse is right around the corner from my freight forwarder in Miami that ships them to me in Nicaragua so I'm hoping I can save on shipping.

It looks like Georg did sell Cruiser Bros to Terrain Tamer/Don Kyatt, but he coming with the sale as branch manager. There was a post on here about it, and this is what they told me...

"We received a note from Valley Hybrids regarding your Cruiser Brothers parabolic spring request. Cruiser Brothers was purchased by Terrain Tamer and we are now in a 20k sq/ft warehouse in Stockton CA."

Here's the press release about it...

TERRAIN TAMER OPENS IN THE USA

The Don Kyatt Group is proud to announce that they are taking their Terrain Tamer and Flashlube brands to North America.

www.ih8mud.com

I'm definitely not saying anything bad about Georg, he was very helpful throughout the process. I actually contacted him months ago about purchasing these parabolic springs but they were in route via container at the time, unfortunately by the time they showed up and we were able to complete the purchase he sold Cruiser Bros and the contact from DK/TT decided to increase the shipping when it was time to pay. Like I said, I have nothing but good to say about my interaction with Georg, but this seems to be one of those cases where a small company was gobbled up by a big corporation, and customer service suffered.

 

[Jkarow08]

For reference, here is the current pricing which is always a factor...

Ironman 4x4:
$883.33 + $100 shipping= $983.33 shipped

Dobinsons:
$1144.99 + $250 shipping= $1394.90 shipped

Terrain Tamer:
$1576 + $428 shipping= $2004 shipped

In my case I'm guessing (hoping) Dobinsons would just drop them off around the corner at my forwarder, making them pretty close in price to Ironman. I'm not sure why Terrain Tamer charges over 4x the shipping cost of Ironman when the parabolic springs weigh half as much and they are both on the west coast...

 

[Jkarow08]

65swb45 (Mark) posted this pic of the ironman springs installed...they look to have the best shackle angle and axle position of any of the springs on the market.

 

[cuteo100]

Perfect shackle angle, and with long shackles, too! My guess is that the spring hanger was probably relocated. Would love to see the front angle also.

 

[jim land]

Perfect shackle angle, and with long shackles, too! My guess is that the spring hanger was probably relocated. Would love to see the front angle also.

It do not look stock , i see a big spacer between the frame and hanger , you can see the stock location on my blue 42

 

[serenity]

I have terrain tamer parabolics in my Hilux and they are worth every penny, it rides great whether there’s 500kg in the back or nothing. And they flex well.

I’ve run Ironman leafs with zero issues and used dobinsons in the past too. But they ride like every other leaf spring.
The quality of all 3 products is excellent, so if you want to enjoy the smoother ride for years to come I’d cop the price on the chin or source another supplier.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

65swb45 (Mark) posted this pic of the ironman springs installed...they look to have the best shackle angle and axle position of any of the springs on the market.

View attachment 3760380

Double check but I'm pretty sure Mark relocated one of the spring hangers.

 

[Jkarow08]

Perfect shackle angle, and with long shackles, too! My guess is that the spring hanger was probably relocated. Would love to see the front angle also.

Double check but I'm pretty sure Mark relocated one of the spring hangers.

I was wondering, it definitely looked too good to be true. The post I saw it on made it sound like they were in the stock location, but I tried to contact Mark to verify, but for some reason I can't send him a message. Does anyone know how to tag him into this conversation to see if he can verify OE spring perch location or not?

 

[Jkarow08]

I have terrain tamer parabolics in my Hilux and they are worth every penny, it rides great whether there’s 500kg in the back or nothing. And they flex well.

I’ve run Ironman leafs with zero issues and used dobinsons in the past too. But they ride like every other leaf spring.
The quality of all 3 products is excellent, so if you want to enjoy the smoother ride for years to come I’d cop the price on the chin or source another supplier.

This is exactly why I wanted to run the TT parabolics, I've read the ride is far superior to anything else. Plus I have to pay $3/lb to have them forwarded to Nica so the parabolics being half the weight saves me a bunch. But like I mentioned, I'm a man of principles, and it definitely rubbed me the wrong way to approve an estimate and then have the seller tack on 10% at the time of payment. I'm pretty sure Don Kyatt is the only supplier in the US now so I either have to swallow my pride or go another route.

 

[serenity]

This is exactly why I wanted to run the TT parabolics, I've read the ride is far superior to anything else. Plus I have to pay $3/lb to have them forwarded to Nica so the parabolics being half the weight saves me a bunch. But like I mentioned, I'm a man of principles, and it definitely rubbed me the wrong way to approve an estimate and then have the seller tack on 10% at the time of payment. I'm pretty sure Don Kyatt is the only supplier in the US now so I either have to swallow my pride or go another route.

Have you tried contacting terrain tamer in Australia to see if they can ship directly to you? Cut out the middle man.

 

[Jkarow08]

Have you tried contacting terrain tamer in Australia to see if they can ship directly to you? Cut out the middle man.

I haven't...the problem is I'm down in San Juan del Sur and there aren't really shipping addresses here or formal shipping services to move goods from Managua where the containers come in to personal addresses. Thankfully there is a service here in SJdS called Fast Pack that has a Miami address where I can have things shipped to, and they get it all the way to an office here in town where I can pick it up. It's not cheap ($3/lb by sea, $8/lb by air), but they have all of the transportation figured out and it's reliable, so it's definitely the easiest way for me to get parts. Living in paradise definitely has a few challenges

 

[peesalot]

Whom did you get the quoted statement from above ( Post #3) ? I reread the news release and no where does it state Cruiser Brothers was sold. It does say Georg was " The former operater", I believe that refers to Georg's involvement in Valley Hybrids/Cruiser Brothers which were both ventures of his and as things have grown he has taken on adding Terrain Tamer as a US dealer. Anyway, just thought it would be good to confirm before posting that Terrain Tamer bought Cruiser Brothers as that is NOT what the news release reported.

 

[Jkarow08]

Whom did you get the quoted statement from above ( Post #3) ? I reread the news release and no where does it state Cruiser Brothers was sold. It does say Georg was " The former operater", I believe that refers to Georg's involvement in Valley Hybrids/Cruiser Brothers which were both ventures of his and as things have grown he has taken on adding Terrain Tamer as a US dealer. Anyway, just thought it would be good to confirm before posting that Terrain Tamer bought Cruiser Brothers as that is NOT what the news release reported.

I got that via an email from a guy named Rourk Richards with Don Kyatt/TT. I found that press release after he told me that, trying to verify for myself, and the timing of the press release and the "former operator" statement lead me to believe what he told me was true. Additionally the sequence of events I encountered supported that to be true. George sent me the estimate, I approved it through his quick books link labeled Cruiser Brothers LLC, he sent me an email saying he saw I approved it (on a Friday) and would circle back with me on Monday to get my payment (but I noticed his signature now said Valley Hybrids and DK NA, no Cruiser Bros). I never heard from Georg again though, and the following Wednesday I got the email from Rourk saying they bought Cruiser Bros and he needed my shipping address and phone # and he would provide an invoice (had already given my zip code to Georg for the shipping estimate). I did so and he sent me the same invoice as Georg (but on DK letterhead), which I emailed him an approval for and told him to send me the pay link. He called and said they could only complete the sale over the phone, and then told me the shipping was going to be $175 more.

Sorry for the rambling account, just wanted to be clear on the sequence of events here and what I know about Cruiser Bros and TT/DK. I didn't mean for this thread to be about bashing TT/DK, rather wanted to give some background as to why I was now again research leaf spring options. I don't spend any time "throwing shade" online, I speak with my wallet, hence not going through with the purchase after feeling like I've been gouged.

 

[Jkarow08]

Whom did you get the quoted statement from above ( Post #3) ? I reread the news release and no where does it state Cruiser Brothers was sold. It does say Georg was " The former operater", I believe that refers to Georg's involvement in Valley Hybrids/Cruiser Brothers which were both ventures of his and as things have grown he has taken on adding Terrain Tamer as a US dealer. Anyway, just thought it would be good to confirm before posting that Terrain Tamer bought Cruiser Brothers as that is NOT what the news release reported.

More evidence...this link states DK submitted the paperwork to take ownership of the Cruiser Brothers trademark in July.

CRUISER BROTHERS Trademark | Trademarkia

The CRUISER BROTHERS. Explore trademark details, ownership information, other trademarks owned by Don Kyatt Spare Parts (West Melbourne) Pty Ltd or file your own trademark.

www.trademarkia.com

 

[peesalot]

OK, I see that, I simply said maybe a call before a post. I see your Trademark registration application and I would offer that possibly this is needed for TT to advertise CB as the US dealer and AFAIK use of a TM is not necissarily tied to business ownership but I may & have been wrong.

 

[Jkarow08]

OK, I see that, I simply said maybe a call before a post. I see your Trademark registration application and I would offer that possibly this is needed for TT to advertise CB as the US dealer and AFAIK use of a TM is not necissarily tied to business ownership but I may & have been wrong.

I'm just trying to read the tea leaves like you and go off what I have been told and found online to support it. Phone isn't the best option for me down here in Nica (poor wifi connection), but I did confront Rourk via email after he left the message about the shipping being $175 higher than what he (and Georg) had quoted me. He showed no interest in honoring the previous quote, and I had no reason to contact Georg after he went dark and DK told me they were now the owner of the company that would be fulfilling my order. Again, I don't have any problem with George, other than him not being more transparent about the transfer of my order to another entity, but I am frustrated with my TT/DK experience.

Did you notice Georg reacted to your first post on this thread but hasn't commented to clarify? More tea leaves to read...

 

[peesalot]

FWIW, " went dark" & " more transparent " are words not usually associated with Georg & Roark, 2 very good, talented, professional people.
I will state the obvious, orangefj45 liked the post because it softly offered the idea that a statement made on a public forum may noy be 100% accurate.
I don't read tea leaves but the "Like" of my post is a really big tea leaf if I understand the concept. Is clarification necessary, I think I stated the clarification in my post and he approved it, I do notice by my new tea leaf reading skills he did not " Like " your post ?

 

[Jkarow08]

FWIW, " went dark" & " more transparent " are words not usually associated with Georg & Roark, 2 very good, talented, professional people.
I will state the obvious, orangefj45 liked the post because it softly offered the idea that a statement made on a public forum may noy be 100% accurate.
I don't read tea leaves but the "Like" of my post is a really big tea leaf if I understand the concept. Is clarification necessary, I think I stated the clarification in my post and he approved it, I do notice by my new tea leaf reading skills he did not " Like " your post ?

I'm not trying to get into a pissing match here, and again, I didn't start this thread to disparage anyone. My heading wasn't "Georg is an #$%+×," "Don Kyatt are scammers," or "OMG, Cruiser Brothers sold out." In fact, I've said nothing but good things about Georg, and I think it's reasonable to hope someone you are doing business with would let you know they have sold your business after they had an approved invoice. And in terms of Rourk, my only knowledge of him is this...on October 23rd he sent me an invoice with a $250 shipping charge, I approved it, and on Oct 25th when he called to get my money he increased the shipping to $428. Is that a reasonable business practice? Would you be frustrated by that?

Sorry if my tea leaves reference went over your head, but what I was asserting is Georg saw your post asserting similarly speculative knowledge that CB hadn't sold to TT (actually more speculative considering I had evidence to the contrary), and instead of taking a few seconds to confirm one of our stances, he simply "hearted" your support of his honesty in business. Not taking the time to clarify this one way or the other when he sees the discussion leads me to believe he did sell the company, something that may disappoint some in the community.

But again, I'm just here to share my experience and get some feedback on different options.