DIY Suspension Install Concerns (1 Viewer)

[Nooooooooob1]

Wanting to put a lift on my 200. Have successfully installed a couple of suspensions on other vehicles before(4Runner, BMW).

One thing I always read about is a 50/50 chance of an inherent lean(not KDSS lean) after install is complete and that a spacer is required to correct it.

Is this true and how do I know if I need a spacer and how do folks normally go about this? Do you just have to get everything put together and see how it sits, then take it all apart again to install the spacer? Seems barbaric.

And why doesn't every kit come with spacers if that's needed? Been researching this for months but haven't really found a conclusive answer from the DIY side of things. Thanks


EDIT: I guess it's the trim packer I'm referring to?

 

[CharlieS]

I've only done three 200 suspensions, so take this with a grain of salt. You won't know if you have a lean until you finish the job and let the suspension settle. There is a procedure to let the KDSS system equalize that worked for me. Trim packers are a bandaid solution.

 

[kcjaz]

I’ve only done one 200 suspension but the leveling procedure that @CharlieS mentioned worked for me too. Also I had to purge the idea the 4 corners had to be exactly equal or perfectly level. You’ll go crazy trying to achieve that. Even a 1/2”
isn’t really noticeable unless you are looking for it. If you think like a cabinet maker or machinist it’s hard not to unsee it once you know it’s there. Mine took a while to settle out and the corners (or really side to side as I purposely have some rake when unloaded) are close nuff and I obsess about other stuff now.

 

[Docwyte]

Just installed the suspension on my 200. All I did was turn the kdss valves three one half turns (so 1.5 turns total) before I got the truck in the air.

Then I installed everything, put it back on the wheels, bounced the truck a few times and retightened the kdss valves.

I was worried about the possible lean but mine is fine

 

[linuxgod]

I've only done three 200 suspensions, so take this with a grain of salt. You won't know if you have a lean until you finish the job and let the suspension settle. There is a procedure to let the KDSS system equalize that worked for me. Trim packers are a bandaid solution.

I disagree that trim packers are a bandaid.

Your suspension may lean after installation depending on the length of the rear springs and the weight of your vehicle. Trim packers in the rear are an excellent way to permanently level the suspension once it’s settled. Yes you should still open the KDSS valves to balance too but if your spring lengths are wrong the KDSS won’t correct it. When you are done Toyota says you should be within 15mm or 5/8” left to right.

I was somewhere around 1/2 to 5/8” when I was done with my most recent spring swap. I used a 10mm spacer on the passengers side rear and now I’m within 1/4”.

Now if you’re off by an inch or more you may have put the rear springs on the wrong side. Taller spring generally goes on the side with the gas tank.

Note btw that a slight front suspension lean happens when your rear springs are off. If you have a lot of rear lean it’ll affect the front. If you get rid of the rear lean the front evens out. So you should never have to install trim packers or spacers up front, just in the rear

 

[HROD79]

I did an ICON suspension on my 2016 myself. I used ICON's 1.75" springs and installed them with out the 10mm Trim spacer. I was concerned about specific driver and passenger side springs. Both springs were identical. I was especially careful to open the KDSS Valves prior to lifting and close them after setting the truck on the ground and rocking it several times. I landed dead even left to right on both the front and Rear. If you haven't seen the video on youtube from Ed Martin Toyota, there is a great explanation on correcting lean after a lift if there is one.

 

[bloc]

Barbaric seems apt for having to disassemble a suspension to dial it in, but that’s really the only correct way.

The good part is any spacers will probably be installed on the rear, and that end is quite easy to get the springs loose enough to install them. And no alignment needed either.

Also, any KDSS procedure that involves opening the valves, setting a wheel on a block then tightening the valves again is a bandaid. It is literally using the sway bars to counteract a lean caused by something else, and it isn’t even close to designed that way.

 

[Nooooooooob1]

Just installed the suspension on my 200. All I did was turn the kdss valves three one half turns (so 1.5 turns total) before I got the truck in the air.

Then I installed everything, put it back on the wheels, bounced the truck a few times and retightened the kdss valves.

I was worried about the possible lean but mine is fine

Great to hear@!

 

[Nooooooooob1]

Thanks all. Didn't know the spacers would only go in the rear. That makes things a lot easier. Was worried about having the wrestle with the IFS multiple times. Already did it once to get the factory leveling kit on!

 

[CharlieS]

Barbaric seems apt for having to disassemble a suspension to dial it in, but that’s really the only correct way.

The good part is any spacers will probably be installed on the rear, and that end is quite easy to get the springs loose enough to install them. And no alignment needed either.

Also, any KDSS procedure that involves opening the valves, setting a wheel on a block then tightening the valves again is a bandaid. It is literally using the sway bars to counteract a lean caused by something else, and it isn’t even close to designed that way.

Except once this procedure is done, it miraculously stays corrected. You have more hands on expertise than anyone I know, having dissected one. I'm just saying that it works.

If replacement springs are causing a persistent lean, you have a spring issue, not a KDSS issue. Neither factory springs nor the OMEs I've installed had an issue because they have one longer than the other to compensate.

 

[bloc]

Except once this procedure is done, it miraculously stays corrected. You have more hands on expertise than anyone I know, having dissected one. I'm just saying that it works.

If replacement springs are causing a persistent lean, you have a spring issue, not a KDSS issue. Neither factory springs nor the OMEs I've installed had an issue because they have one longer than the other to compensate.

In my case on stock springs with a significant lean I’m assuming caused by sag it didn’t work.

At issue is the system having the ability to self balance via the small check valves within the valve body. But they seem to be designed not to open if there is a large pressure differential.. otherwise the whole system wouldn’t work. The wood block process induces that exact scenario so now you have a system that doesn’t spend the majority of its time with an even 400psi (or whatever the operating pressure is) throughout but significantly more in half the system to force the sway bars to counteract the lean.

Unless the wood block process is somehow fixing a problem within the until-the-lift-was-installed working KDSS I can’t see how it is healthy for it.

Edit: said another way.. if the vehicle doesn’t level itself with the valves open, which is when the KDSS is neutralized and the bars effectively disconnected, the problem is the springs or bushings or something else. Using KDSS to “fix” it is what prompted my above bandaid comment.

 

[KLF]

I've been ignoring the 1.5" lean on mine for about a year now. Sucks that the high priced BP-51 setup leans, but whatever.

I tried the KDSS party trick to solve the lean and it did nothing. It still leans.

I was extremely careful to install the rear springs on the correct sides, I even called ARB with them in front of me and labeled them so they wouldn't get mixed up. Still leans.

 

[Tex68w]

So 1) open the KDSS valves before the truck goes in the air/on the lift, 2) install lift and put the truck back on the ground, 3) rock it back and forth a few times and then close the KDSS valves?

 

[bloc]

So 1) open the KDSS valves before the truck goes in the air/on the lift, 2) install lift and put the truck back on the ground, 3) rock it back and forth a few times and then close the KDSS valves?

Pretty much. Details: Don’t go more than 3 turns on the screws, and don’t overtorque them when tightening.. 10ft-lbf

 

[Tex68w]

Pretty much. Details: Don’t go more than 3 turns on the screws, and don’t overtorque them when tightening.. 10ft-lbf

I think I went 2.5 turns the last time and it worked out fine.

 

[bloc]

I think I went 2.5 turns the last time and it worked out fine.

Yeah that works. Really as soon as they crack loose they start to allow flow from one circuit to another, it’s just that upper limit that must not be surpassed.

 

[Docwyte]

I did 1.5 turns on mine this past Friday when I installed my suspension. If you watch the Ed Martin kdss lean video they mention there's no need to do more than 1.5 turns

 

[TeCKis300]

Also consider that the suspension bushings should be tightened when the car suspension is loaded and leveling is zeroed out. Meaning if the LCA, UCA, end links, shocks, etc., is tightened when there is notable lean... The bushings will then contribute and hold that lean.

After all said and done, don't forget to zero point calibrate.

 

[TeCKis300]

Also consider that the suspension bushings should be tightened when the car suspension is loaded and leveling is zeroed out. Meaning if the LCA, UCA, end links, shocks, etc., is tightened when there is notable lean... The bushings will then contribute and hold that lean.

After all said and done, don't forget to zero point calibrate.

 

[linuxgod]

Except once this procedure is done, it miraculously stays corrected. You have more hands on expertise than anyone I know, having dissected one. I'm just saying that it works.

If replacement springs are causing a persistent lean, you have a spring issue, not a KDSS issue. Neither factory springs nor the OMEs I've installed had an issue because they have one longer than the other to compensate.

It only works for some people. I've tried it... didn't help when I had a lean due to the springs being on the wrong side, and didn't help correct the remaining lean once I did swap them. Trim packers worked though.