Discuss: FJ62 5VZ-FE Conversion

[SAR_Squid79]

I know that with enough money, and enough cutting - ANYTHING CAN BE DONE...

But would it be REASONABLE to try to put a 5VZ-FE into a 60 series?

As far as I've gotten with the thinking is that I'd have to put in the 3.4L engine with the Tacoma transmission & T-Case, TRD rear (with e-Locker), and probably a Waggy front axle.

Is there a way to adapt a 5VZ-FE to the FJ62 Transmission/T-Case?

Just somthing I'm kicking around. When I get back from Afghanistan, I should be sitting on quite a bit of spare change, and I want to see about getting more power out of my FJ62, while keeping a Toyota engine in there.

I'm not a big fan of "Toylets".

 

[CruisinFJ60]

why the 3.4?
why are you wanting to put smaller weaker axles under the truck? (other than the centeroffset, which at best is a very small obstical)
I would try and have a bellhousing made as the transfercase will not be as strong as the split case the cruiser came with stock.
I dunno bout the tranny but id keep the cruiser tranny (or a stick from another cruiser, or an equivalant trans from another vehicle... maybe a NV4500...)

 

[SAR_Squid79]

why the 3.4?
why are you wanting to put smaller weaker axles under the truck? (other than the centeroffset, which at best is a very small obstical)

I don't want to put smaller, weaker axles under there. I just didn't know if there is any way to mate the 5VZ-FE to the FJ62 Transmission / T-case. The offset is the ONLY reason I would swap out the axles - if I had to use the Tacoma transmission / T-Case.

Why the 3.4? I love that engine. I'm VERY familiar with it. I think it would be a great improvement over the 3FE. I think it would produce the power band I'm looking for, and if not - I can supercharge it!

 

[ntsqd]

Search the centering of a Cruiser rear axle. It's been done. I am looking at doing it for mine. I plan to build a larger capacity fuel tank, so any clearance issue there is no longer an issue. Only clearance problem that I see is potentially the p-brake cable.

If my friend Rod's prototype of the TRD kit is any indicator, a supercharged 3.4 in a heavily loaded rig will net you roughly zero mpg gain over the F-series. HP is a different story.

 

[SAR_Squid79]

Search the centering of a Cruiser rear axle. It's been done. I am looking at doing it for mine. I plan to build a larger capacity fuel tank, so any clearance issue there is no longer an issue. Only clearance problem that I see is potentially the p-brake cable.

If my friend Rod's prototype of the TRD kit is any indicator, a supercharged 3.4 in a heavily loaded rig will net you roughly zero mpg gain over the F-series. HP is a different story.

Yeah - I thought of just having someone like Ballistic Fab, build a new axle housing for the rear, and a flipped housing for the front - IF - I had to use the Tacoma Trans & T-Case. I'd like to see and progress or findings that you get on this.

Also - with the 3.4L - IF I could swap one into the FJ62, I would start out with it stock, and see how it fared. If the truck was still a dog (like it is with the 3FE) then I would move on to Supercharging it. I am purely looking to put a little more ass behind the Cruiser. Not really looking for a MPG improvement . . . as long as there isn't a significant loss of MPG.

 

[dallen341]

Near as I can tell you are talkng the FJ62. That being the case, I'd consider dropping a 5-speed behind the existing motor. I hear the auto tranny in the FJ62 sucks major power and the 5-speed really makes them come alive. OrangeFJ45 has done the conversion. Consider contacting Georg if you are interested in such a setup.

Don

 

[ntsqd]

What I am thinking to do is to very carefully cut a FF housing into 3 pieces, then flip the center piece & weld it back together with the pinion on center and little change in track width (two kerfs). Obviously there's more to it than just that, but that's the jist of it. I don't know, yet, if this approach will really work or not. I either need to get under my 60 with a tape or buy the FF assembly since I want one of those anyway.

 

[esh]

I just drove a 13B-T to A440 trans FJ-62 this weekend. It worked shockingly well and seemed to have plenty of power to spare- still a bit shocked, it is nothing like the 3B in my BJ42s. The current owner has had it up to the local ski mountain and said he didn't have to push it at all, He said he cruised at 85 down to my place and gets 19-25mpg. Was a pretty stock 62 on 31s/stock 4.11 gears.

So I guess my point is anything is possible.

Makes me want to drive a 3FE/H55 and see what kind of a difference there really is.

I am currently looking at an '04 5.3L vortec/4L60E/split case conversion.

 

[SAR_Squid79]

Makes me want to drive a 3FE/H55 and see what kind of a difference there really is.

I think that's actually - realistically - what I'll end up doing. ...A Man-A-Fre H55 conversion.

 

[me_tu05]

you could also look into putting a turbo on it. I hear that has a good gain in power. I know thats what Im gona do after my SO.

 

[ntsqd]

you could also look into putting a turbo on it. I hear that has a good gain in power. I know thats what Im gona do after my SO.

Kalifornia.

 

[orangefj45]

hey guys.
i've done an h42 swap into an fj62 with a toybox and split case behind it. definetly woke that motor up and the customer was/is super happy with it.
running the h55f behind the 3FE would be even better.

i'm currently working on a 13BT/h55f/split case swap into an fj60 as well as a turbo'd 2H/h55f/split case in an hj47 troopie. i have driven the troppie already, but not the "BTJ60".
if it were my truck, i would not "downsize" in engine displacement. sure you get some decent horsepower out of the 3.4 but you won't get the same torque at the low rpms. also, keep in mind that the 6x series rigs are quite a bit heavier than the tacos.

i'd try to look at "all" the options before comitting to the 3.4 as well as the smaller axles. imho, it's a step back, especially if you're gonna wheel the rig.

last but not least, you can run the offset rear with the center output t-case. early 40s were set up that way. they had a lot more u-joint angle than the 6x series rig would due to the increased drive shaft length in the wagons.
a u-joint does'nt really care what clocking it operates at; the operating angle is the limiting factor.
i know that a few people will get their panties in a bunch about this statement but i have driven/ridden in a few rigs that were set up that way and they had no driveline vibrations or issues. i even discussed this topic with a well known drive-line builder and he agreed that it would be just fine to run the driveline that way.
remember, it's the operating angle and relation of angles between the t-case output and pinion that matters. sure it will look unconventional and a bunch of bench racers are gonna give you crap about it........

just some food for thought.

 

[orangefj45]

a front housing can be modified to work on the opposite side as well without cutting the tubes off..........

 

[ntsqd]

In my own case I want the centered rear drive shaft because of the parasitic loss from the higher U-Joint angle. It's splitting hairs I know, but I expect my own 60 to see a lot of highway miles and every little bit helps. I doubt that is a good enough reason for most though.

 

[orangefj45]

I expect my own 60 to see a lot of highway miles and every little bit helps.

i'm not here to argue your point but i'd love to do some math on this.

let's say you go with a custom or semi-custom rear axle for this rig. that would include the housing, perches, custom shafts, ebrake cables,........i'll be conservative and say it'll cost at least $1k to get this done.

so if a gallon of gas costs $2.50 right now, then that comes to 400 gallons for $1k.

if you're getting say 13 mpg right now, then the h55f should bring that up to about 15. now let's include the "loss" due to the mis-aligned driveline. i think it'd be very generous to say you'd loose maybe .2 mpg at the very most. if i had to bet money on it i'd say it's less than a tenth of that.
if my math is correct, it will take you 440,000 miles to make up the difference of $1000 in fuel savings due to the "inline" rear drive shaft.

maybe i'm way off, but i could'nt justify such an expense. the new rear axle would be well worn out by then, requiring more custom parts so ultimately, it would never "pay for itself:.

 

[ntsqd]

My reasoning goes something like this:
Spicer calls out a 5.8* max true operating angle at 3000 drive shaft RPM and 7.0* at 2500 drive shaft RPM (Spicer publication 3119-5). I expect that my intended combo (33 x 4.11) will put me just about dead middle btwn those numbers at 65 mph. So say roughly 6.4* I've no idea what the angles would be with an offset diff and a centered output, but intuition says that I'd be close to that limit. Up to 3* is free of U-J life reduction, at 6* U-J life is half of it's expected life. http://www2.dana.com/pdf/DSAG-0200.pdf pg. 22 (Found that looking for 3119-5 on-line)
Let's say that the true angle is 6*, basing this on what I was told about power consumption when building the engine dynometer that's about 10-12 HP consumed in the U-Joints and dissipated as waste heat.

I'll have the cost of a set of double splined Moser (or similar) axle shafts (already own some splined drive plates) plus a lot of time in the rear axle. If you discount the FF axle that I plan to buy regardless I expect to have less than $500 in the centering of the diff. Not in the axle, just in the centering.

Then there's the value of my piece of mind in knowing that it's "right", i.e. a centered output with an offset diff would make me crazy(er). And that's probably the real reason, even if I can't admit it to myself.

 

[orangefj45]

righton. we're both entitled to ur opinions. and they're just that.


fwiw, there are a lot of 60 series rigs driving around with ome and other lifts. many of them have 200k plus miles on them. with the factory u-joints.......


if you can do the work on the rear axle your self, then who's to stop you. as long as you do a clean job and it's structurally sound i see no reason not to do it.


my argument for your above post was in response to the "parasitic loss" and "fuel consumption" statements.


bottom line, it's your rig. do what you want with it. and enjoy it!

 

[esh]

Apologies for taking this thread down a different turn, and I know we'll never get to something definitive (but it is fun to jaw).

Georg- you are among a pretty select few group of people I can think of that have probably some of the most varied experience with different drivetrain/model combos. Would you be willing to lay them out and give your impressions? I know that I am not alone in considering some drivetrain changes.. here is an example of what I'm looking for and I'll use my experiences as a start. I think it's important to add qualifiers as much as possible to shade the impression. Things like miles on engine (or rebuild), engine health, gearing, tires, weight carried, etc.. it all comes into play. I really wanted to put the weight of my FJ62 (6200lbs now with the winch, fully loaded, all the bumper/armor and roof top tent) into that 13B-T/A440 to see what kind of difference it may have made.

my history:

1974 FJ40 hardtop, stock 2bbl 1F/4spd, mid-high 100k miles, stock running gear, 30" tiers. My first cruiser in '92ish. I knew nothing and it felt like an old truck but it didn't matter because the top came off and I was in college.

1964 FJ40 hardtop, 1F 1bbl/3spd, higher 100k miles, I think it was a "rebuild the top 40k ago" truck. Came with 31" Yoko Super Diggers with probably 40% tread. More FJ40 bliss, but it was a slow, sputtery truck. I went way into the boonies of Oregon alone many times and it always brought me back. Upgraded to 33x9.5 BFG MTs and an 8274 winch, not much difference, harder push to get over passes. 2wd low was fun.

1981 BJ42 hardtop. 3B w/Fairey OD (stuck in OD iirc), otherwise stock. Came with 29" tires, 250k kilometers on the clock. Wow, 450 mile range on a tank. Great gearing combo (stock 4.11 in BJ42s) with the tires and OD. Not fast but capable up a pass. Fairey blew up, so yanked it, rebuilt the t-case, added 33x12.5 MTs. Noticeably more of a dog and passes were more work than the original form. May have had less weight due to pretty terminal body rust.

1982 BJ42 hardtop. All stock, had to be in the 200k+ kilometers. 29" Hankook snow/all terrains. This was an internet deal gone bad and I have it sitting as parts for some distant future drivetrain swap into the '64. Ran fantastic, drove it home to Oregon from Maine in the middle of February. Similar to the '81 in driveability- capable but not outstanding. 19+ mpg. Was loaded with spare parts/tools/extra fluids/duct tape/bailing wire/JB weld. Kind of scary as I found the rear frame rotted. Most the truck is bondo, so not sure if that is heavier or lighter than sheet metal.

80s BJ75 pickup. 3B/H55. 4.11s on 31" BFG ATs. Healthy motor. Heavy mining bed and about 15 leafs on the rear packs. Impressive to see 1 ton of gutted home material loaded without noticeable sag. Empty, it drove capably. Nothing I remember outstanding, felt closer to the BJ42s above. Low mile engine, but they were mine miles.

Mid 80s BJ70 hardtop. 3B/H55. 4.11s and 31s I think. Not sure if I've driven it. Seemed to be close to the BJ75 (same owner). Not sure if engine was as tight as the BJ75.

Nov/Dec 03, '89 FJ-62 stock on 285s. 175k miles, solid compression, untouched drivetrain. 04 saw it on 31" BFG ATs, 33x9.5 (from '64 FJ40) BFG MTs, 33x12.5 BFG MTs ('81 BJ42s), finally 33x10.5 BFG ATs. It started off respectable on 285/31s, but just got worse after lots of miles (240k ish now), and lots more weight- 125lb front bullbar, winch, rear full protection bumper, sliders. 6200 lbs I think was last weigh-in. Complete dog. If it weren't for the 3FE able to rev easily to 4k rpm on occasion, it would be unbearable.

Moab '05, and I get to drive Luke Porter's HJ61 to Poison Spider Mesa, up it a ways and back. 12H-T, H55, very heavy German-outfitted expedition truck with 4 passengers along. 33x16 MTs. Bigger fuel tank, cargo area storage system loaded, roof rack ARB/Kaymar, sliders, winch, body armor. Good tunes. This felt great on the highway with that load. Didn't feel pushed at all, responsive throttle. OME HD with 2 or 3 extra OME long overload leafs at each corner. I think a gear or 2 in the H55 was broken. The expedition tank gave him I think a 1200 mile range on fillup. Maiden Voyage.

'66 FJ454. 45 lpb, bobbed w/heavy steel flat bed. 454 big block, built/balanced, SM465/NP205. Oh my this is different. More power than this old of a truck should have. May have contributed to broken NP205 and rear FF shafts starting to twist a bit. Have a reman 850cfm q-jet and new matching edelbrock intake waiting for the day it lives again, behind the other projects. Maybe 4.11s on 37s, but really with all the power not sure gearing matters anymore. Pretty confident that engine will continue to roar long after everything else around it shreds apart. It will get shrunk to 35 ATs and get the rear frame re-extened to stock and a nice bed back on, and become a mild-mannered street/snow truck. Nothing to compare to- ok maybe PortFJ62's Merc powered FJ62. He breaks his truck too.

'79 FJ40 soft top. Healthy (smogged) 2F, SM420, 4spd case. 35 MTRs/4.56s. Has some bumper/winch weight. Cruises nicely, can pull a pass ok (in the ballpark of BJ42s feel).

Rowland's 1HZ(with HD-T turbo)FJ60, H55f, 33x10.5s(?). All I can say is he is a bastard, complaining about only able to get up to 85mph up a good mtn pass because ambient temp is 95F. Anyways, I have been around this truck enough times and at length to say this is a pretty awesome combo. It is probably lighter than my FJ62 but it is still pretty loaded with gear in every hidden nook and cranny you may not know exists in a 60. Even a spare jerry can underneath in a stealth holder. My only regret is not driving it. Will hopefully get to that this summer.

FJ62 13B-T/A440. Surprisingly good combo. Would not have believed it. Plenty of spare power. Makes me want to get the one BJ42 back to life and other one's parts transplanted with turbos added. Would still like to load it with 800 or so lbs of sand bags and see how it does.


Other thoughts.. 2FE/H55. I was really going to go this route, but after looking at the costs of a nice rebuild and new transmission, I think there are other more viable alternatives out there for what I have and want.

So I am left to wonder the difference in characteristics of a well-used (250k+ km) 12H-T/H55 (or 1HZ) conversion against a 10- or 1000-mile '02-'04 5.3L vortec / 4L60E conversion on a truck that is +/- 800-1200lbs lighter than the trucks the V8 originally was run in. I explore with more than wheel the FJ62, and care about crossing distances and get over mountain passes than the need for speed or insanely extensive ranges. The diesel has greater range, especially poking along dirt/gravel roads at changing altitudes. It is also heavier, and louder, and simpler. The v8 is lighter, modern (obd-II), oddly simple after reworked wiring harness, and got 15-21mpg in a heavier platform. And has more power. If either gets over a pass easily, which has more power doesn't really matter. Range difference isn't a huge deal as I can work out ways to store more fuel if needed. The idea of smoking Kevin's HZT60 in a race across the Alvord desert has a certain appeal to it, I'll admit.

 

[beaufort-fj60]

if it were my truck, i would not "downsize" in engine displacement. sure you get some decent horsepower out of the 3.4 but you won't get the same torque at the low rpms. also, keep in mind that the 6x series rigs are quite a bit heavier than the tacos.

I have a 2002 tundra with a 3.4... it can barely push that truck around. I don't think you would be happy with a 3.4 in a 60 series.

 

[orangefj45]

Apologies for taking this thread down a different turn, and I know we'll never get to something definitive (but it is fun to jaw).

Georg- you are among a pretty select few group of people I can think of that have probably some of the most varied experience with different drivetrain/model combos. Would you be willing to lay them out and give your impressions? I know that I am not alone in considering some drivetrain changes.. here is an example of what I'm looking for and I'll use my experiences as a start. I think it's important to add qualifiers as much as possible to shade the impression. Things like miles on engine (or rebuild), engine health, gearing, tires, weight carried, etc.. it all comes into play. I really wanted to put the weight of my FJ62 (6200lbs now with the winch, fully loaded, all the bumper/armor and roof top tent) into that 13B-T/A440 to see what kind of difference it may have made.

my history:

1974 FJ40 hardtop, stock 2bbl 1F/4spd, mid-high 100k miles, stock running gear, 30" tiers. My first cruiser in '92ish. I knew nothing and it felt like an old truck but it didn't matter because the top came off and I was in college.

1964 FJ40 hardtop, 1F 1bbl/3spd, higher 100k miles, I think it was a "rebuild the top 40k ago" truck. Came with 31" Yoko Super Diggers with probably 40% tread. More FJ40 bliss, but it was a slow, sputtery truck. I went way into the boonies of Oregon alone many times and it always brought me back. Upgraded to 33x9.5 BFG MTs and an 8274 winch, not much difference, harder push to get over passes. 2wd low was fun.

1981 BJ42 hardtop. 3B w/Fairey OD (stuck in OD iirc), otherwise stock. Came with 29" tires, 250k kilometers on the clock. Wow, 450 mile range on a tank. Great gearing combo (stock 4.11 in BJ42s) with the tires and OD. Not fast but capable up a pass. Fairey blew up, so yanked it, rebuilt the t-case, added 33x12.5 MTs. Noticeably more of a dog and passes were more work than the original form. May have had less weight due to pretty terminal body rust.

1982 BJ42 hardtop. All stock, had to be in the 200k+ kilometers. 29" Hankook snow/all terrains. This was an internet deal gone bad and I have it sitting as parts for some distant future drivetrain swap into the '64. Ran fantastic, drove it home to Oregon from Maine in the middle of February. Similar to the '81 in driveability- capable but not outstanding. 19+ mpg. Was loaded with spare parts/tools/extra fluids/duct tape/bailing wire/JB weld. Kind of scary as I found the rear frame rotted. Most the truck is bondo, so not sure if that is heavier or lighter than sheet metal.

80s BJ75 pickup. 3B/H55. 4.11s on 31" BFG ATs. Healthy motor. Heavy mining bed and about 15 leafs on the rear packs. Impressive to see 1 ton of gutted home material loaded without noticeable sag. Empty, it drove capably. Nothing I remember outstanding, felt closer to the BJ42s above. Low mile engine, but they were mine miles.

Mid 80s BJ70 hardtop. 3B/H55. 4.11s and 31s I think. Not sure if I've driven it. Seemed to be close to the BJ75 (same owner). Not sure if engine was as tight as the BJ75.

Nov/Dec 03, '89 FJ-62 stock on 285s. 175k miles, solid compression, untouched drivetrain. 04 saw it on 31" BFG ATs, 33x9.5 (from '64 FJ40) BFG MTs, 33x12.5 BFG MTs ('81 BJ42s), finally 33x10.5 BFG ATs. It started off respectable on 285/31s, but just got worse after lots of miles (240k ish now), and lots more weight- 125lb front bullbar, winch, rear full protection bumper, sliders. 6200 lbs I think was last weigh-in. Complete dog. If it weren't for the 3FE able to rev easily to 4k rpm on occasion, it would be unbearable.

Moab '05, and I get to drive Luke Porter's HJ61 to Poison Spider Mesa, up it a ways and back. 12H-T, H55, very heavy German-outfitted expedition truck with 4 passengers along. 33x16 MTs. Bigger fuel tank, cargo area storage system loaded, roof rack ARB/Kaymar, sliders, winch, body armor. Good tunes. This felt great on the highway with that load. Didn't feel pushed at all, responsive throttle. OME HD with 2 or 3 extra OME long overload leafs at each corner. I think a gear or 2 in the H55 was broken. The expedition tank gave him I think a 1200 mile range on fillup. Maiden Voyage.

'66 FJ454. 45 lpb, bobbed w/heavy steel flat bed. 454 big block, built/balanced, SM465/NP205. Oh my this is different. More power than this old of a truck should have. May have contributed to broken NP205 and rear FF shafts starting to twist a bit. Have a reman 850cfm q-jet and new matching edelbrock intake waiting for the day it lives again, behind the other projects. Maybe 4.11s on 37s, but really with all the power not sure gearing matters anymore. Pretty confident that engine will continue to roar long after everything else around it shreds apart. It will get shrunk to 35 ATs and get the rear frame re-extened to stock and a nice bed back on, and become a mild-mannered street/snow truck. Nothing to compare to- ok maybe PortFJ62's Merc powered FJ62. He breaks his truck too.

'79 FJ40 soft top. Healthy (smogged) 2F, SM420, 4spd case. 35 MTRs/4.56s. Has some bumper/winch weight. Cruises nicely, can pull a pass ok (in the ballpark of BJ42s feel).

Rowland's 1HZ(with HD-T turbo)FJ60, H55f, 33x10.5s(?). All I can say is he is a bastard, complaining about only able to get up to 85mph up a good mtn pass because ambient temp is 95F. Anyways, I have been around this truck enough times and at length to say this is a pretty awesome combo. It is probably lighter than my FJ62 but it is still pretty loaded with gear in every hidden nook and cranny you may not know exists in a 60. Even a spare jerry can underneath in a stealth holder. My only regret is not driving it. Will hopefully get to that this summer.

FJ62 13B-T/A440. Surprisingly good combo. Would not have believed it. Plenty of spare power. Makes me want to get the one BJ42 back to life and other one's parts transplanted with turbos added. Would still like to load it with 800 or so lbs of sand bags and see how it does.


Other thoughts.. 2FE/H55. I was really going to go this route, but after looking at the costs of a nice rebuild and new transmission, I think there are other more viable alternatives out there for what I have and want.

So I am left to wonder the difference in characteristics of a well-used (250k+ km) 12H-T/H55 (or 1HZ) conversion against a 10- or 1000-mile '02-'04 5.3L vortec / 4L60E conversion on a truck that is +/- 800-1200lbs lighter than the trucks the V8 originally was run in. I explore with more than wheel the FJ62, and care about crossing distances and get over mountain passes than the need for speed or insanely extensive ranges. The diesel has greater range, especially poking along dirt/gravel roads at changing altitudes. It is also heavier, and louder, and simpler. The v8 is lighter, modern (obd-II), oddly simple after reworked wiring harness, and got 15-21mpg in a heavier platform. And has more power. If either gets over a pass easily, which has more power doesn't really matter. Range difference isn't a huge deal as I can work out ways to store more fuel if needed. The idea of smoking Kevin's HZT60 in a race across the Alvord desert has a certain appeal to it, I'll admit.

wow, you're fully afflicted! maybe even moreso than myself. i think we should move this to a different thread as to not hijack this one even more than we already have.