Diff Breather Relocation (1 Viewer)

[CharlieS]

I've decided that the time has come to relocate my diff breathers. Can people share where they've relocated theirs to? I'm thinking about in the engine compartment on or near the firewall.

 

[Lester did that]

I ran all the breathers to the top of the firewall on the passenger side. It's a fairly clean route to go compared to the drivers side with all the electric. If the thing goes in water that deep the differential will be my last concern

 

[CharlieS]

Thanks @Lester did that , any other ideas (or pics).

One more for attention. It looks more dramatic than it was in real life. There was a hole at the entry, but it was mostly just great timing by the photographer - taken at the exact moment that the front of the pig hit the water. The rest was no drama, minimal bow wake, tread lightly, etc.

 

[linuxgod]

Photo looks like an indycole hole right there

Personally my order of importance is snorkel then diff breathers. Your diffs will survive water infiltration, you just need to change the fluids if that happens. The engine will not. Both airbox intake and diffs are raised about ~30" (once you account for your tires and lift) so if there's a risk of water in one then there's a risk of water in all.

In fairness I've done the snorkel but I haven't done the diff breathers, even though I have a bag of worm clamps and a spool of fuel line hose sitting in my garage. Stupid to-do list.

 

[CharlieS]

Very good points!

The water level was very high because of steady rain all weekend making it the deepest the guides had ever seen.

Thankfully I didn't have an Indycole outcome. Most of it barely covered the wheels, and since I had a modest bow wake, I think it kept the water level manageable in the engine compartment. But if I had to stop... Ut-oh. Bad news.

I also have the spool of fuel line, breathers and clamps in my shop on my stupid to do list. and have been there for longer than I'd like to admit. Where to install the breathers has been my stumbling block.

But, since I'm swapping out my diffs for the regear/lockers, this seems like the perfect time to add breathers. I'll have easy access to the breather tubes, and my aftermarket skids have to come off to do the diff work (and be beaten flat again, and have a tear welded up) so I'll have access that I don't typically have in my day to day.

I've heard mixed reviews from people that installed snorkels, enough that I am hesitant to do it. It seems great off road, dusty, and water crossing but not sure I would love to live with the tradeoffs on a day to day basis. I'm open to being convinced though.

 

[linuxgod]

Very good points!

The water level was very high because of steady rain all weekend making it the deepest the guides had ever seen.

Thankfully I didn't have an Indycole outcome. Most of it barely covered the wheels, and since I had a modest bow wake, I think it kept the water level manageable in the engine compartment. But if I had to stop... Ut-oh. Bad news.

I also have the spool of fuel line, breathers and clamps in my shop on my stupid to do list. and have been there for longer than I'd like to admit. Where to install the breathers has been my stumbling block.

But, since I'm swapping out my diffs for the regear/lockers, this seems like the perfect time to add breathers. I'll have easy access to the breather tubes, and my aftermarket skids have to come off to do the diff work (and be beaten flat again, and have a tear welded up) so I'll have access that I don't typically have in my day to day.

I've heard mixed reviews from people that installed snorkels, enough that I am hesitant to do it. It seems great off road, dusty, and water crossing but not sure I would love to live with the tradeoffs on a day to day basis. I'm open to being convinced though.

I have some hose barbs like these:

Amazon product ASIN B00CHI03OG
My plan was actually to just remove the breathers from the ends, insert a barb with worm clamp, and basically extend the fuel line and then reinstall the breather at the new end. The front diff and transfer case breathers are a bit under the master cylinder in the engine bay and are accessible to extend from there... not that running a new line will hurt, but I don't think it's required either.

Curious what tradeoffs you expect with a snorkel (aside from the look). FWIW I haven't felt any. No loss of power or MPG when I originally installed it. No issues so far with snow accumulation in Chicago (though if I did have any I'd just turn the snorkel head around for the season). I did install a one-way valve in the bottom corner of my airbox to act as a drain for any water that ends up in the airbox. It's just held in with RTV but I did test that even a teaspoon of water will drip out, but any suction at all keeps the valve closed. If I was sitting in water without the engine running then it *might* allow water to eventually seep into the airbox, but if that happens I have other problems. When the engine breathing in air it stays sealed.

Amazon product ASIN B07NTY936C

 

[CharlieS]

I have similar brass barbed fittings (different sizes of straight and reducing barbs, and a Y fitting), and was going to extend the ones that are already in the front as you described to somewhere in the engine bay where I will install an ARB-style breather. For the rear diff, I was going to run fuel line hose along the body from the rear diff, as tucked as I can, to the engine bay where I will vent it with the same breather. The breather is a knockoff brand that I got by mistake, but it seems to be substantially similar. I picked up a second, since they are limited to four input ports, and I read here on 'Mud that there are more than that (maybe as many as 6?). I didn't know if it would make sense to put one breather on the driver side for vents in that area, and another in the passenger side for vents in that area. Or if that is overkill.

I don't remember the specific complaints about snorkels, but I definitely recall people not being happy with them and saying if they had a choice, they'd go without the snorkel, one person as far as to contemplating getting a replacement fender to go back to stock. Is there a bunch of wind noise or something?

 

[RET2]

Just a friendly reminder to not forget the height of the alternator?

 

[bloc]

Don't some people run the rear to the fuel fill area? Not as high as the firewall but a much shorter and simpler run, reducing chance of issues with abrasion/low spots in the line/etc.

Also if you are doing diffs it would be wise to think about transfer case and transmission. Parts diagrams show the trans vent extended toward the coolant valley, and two metal pipes extending forward from the t-case with a breather on the end of each. Not sure how far forward or high those two go.

 

[CharlieS]

Just a friendly reminder to not forget the height of the alternator?

Yeah, I had no idea this was on the route, but at that point, it didn't seem so bad. At least four people went through in front of me, so I had an idea of depth.

 

[CharlieS]

Don't some people run the rear to the fuel fill area? Not as high as the firewall but a much shorter and simpler run, reducing chance of issues with abrasion/low spots in the line/etc.

Also if you are doing diffs it would be wise to think about transfer case and transmission. Parts diagrams show the trans vent extended toward the coolant valley, and two metal pipes extending forward from the t-case with a breather on the end of each. Not sure how far forward or high those two go.

Pretty useful thread here: Transmission and transfer case breathers found! US specs LX570. Photos. - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/transmission-and-transfer-case-breathers-found-us-specs-lx570-photos.1236297/post-13556555

 

[linuxgod]

I have similar brass barbed fittings (different sizes of straight and reducing barbs, and a Y fitting), and was going to extend the ones that are already in the front as you described to somewhere in the engine bay where I will install an ARB-style breather. For the rear diff, I was going to run fuel line hose along the body from the rear diff, as tucked as I can, to the engine bay where I will vent it with the same breather. The breather is a knockoff brand that I got by mistake, but it seems to be substantially similar. I picked up a second, since they are limited to four input ports, and I read here on 'Mud that there are more than that (maybe as many as 6?). I didn't know if it would make sense to put one breather on the driver side for vents in that area, and another in the passenger side for vents in that area. Or if that is overkill.

I don't remember the specific complaints about snorkels, but I definitely recall people not being happy with them and saying if they had a choice, they'd go without the snorkel, one person as far as to contemplating getting a replacement fender to go back to stock. Is there a bunch of wind noise or something?

I have a little wind noise from mine, but I get more from the massive amount of crap on my roof rack. My tires are louder than either (despite everyone saying the Nitto RGs are a quiet AT). Thankfully I can overcompensate by turning up the STP or Zeppelin

 

[bloc]

Pretty useful thread here: Transmission and transfer case breathers found! US specs LX570. Photos. - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/transmission-and-transfer-case-breathers-found-us-specs-lx570-photos.1236297/post-13556555

Good link.

That reminds me though.. the factory breather port is designed specifically to prevent water ingress. Not just the cap on the top but the rubber flap and spring under said cap.. at least for the one I gutted a long, long time ago.

Have any engineers actually looked at these things to try and figure out what the full potential is? How much air would get drawn in when the front diff is cooled by dunking in water? Same for rear axle? How much vaccum can the little rubber flap provide? As is apparently the case in the front axle of an 80, toyota may actually want a slight vacuum in the axle housing and the flap provides that?

When I see three plastic lines near an exhaust part, even if I'm sure they bundled them up and out of the way, I see more potential for failure by moving away from toyota's well-tested design.. and to solve a problem that may not even exist. Especially if the vehicle doesn't have a snorkel.

 

[CharlieS]

I hear you, and that makes sense. Toyota does amazing engineering, and nothing I do will ever come close.

On the other hand, a lot of the offroad crowd in Australia seem to use extended breathers extensively (with or without snorkels).

I think of the factory breathers being designed for a different use case than I now have. Like a lot of things, I'll try it and see how it goes. Worst case, I can revert to stock.

I'm pretty sure my diffs are underwater in the picture above, and at least the rear vent is likely under water, if not the front ones. I'm slightly less concerned because I know my diffs are getting replaced soon, but it'd be a huge annoyance if I have to stress about servicing the diffs every time I drive through water.

 

[bloc]

Has anyone compared the published water fording depth number against the stock breather heights? That could at least indicate whether Toyota thought their breather caps were intended to prevent water ingress.

 

[CharlieS]

I haven't. But one thing I wanted to mention is that we've got some pretty widely varied climate and road conditions around here. Your Central Texas conditions probably couldn't be much different than some of the road conditions here in Vermont. The salt and chloride they use on winter roads and rusts/corrodes everything. Even if things work great off the lot, they may not work as well after a couple years of exposure to this rough treatment.

 

[Lester did that]

Photo looks like an indycole hole right there

Personally my order of importance is snorkel then diff breathers. Your diffs will survive water infiltration, you just need to change the fluids if that happens. The engine will not. Both airbox intake and diffs are raised about ~30" (once you account for your tires and lift) so if there's a risk of water in one then there's a risk of water in all.

In fairness I've done the snorkel but I haven't done the diff breathers, even though I have a bag of worm clamps and a spool of fuel line hose sitting in my garage. Stupid to-do list.

I have a snorkel to install this winter with a filter cap. Not so much for the water but dust on back roads. Since I moved to area with a lot of dirt and gravel roads I have been keeping an eye on my air filter. And changing it every 2-3 months in the warmer weather. I also have the rim of the air box coated in petroleum jelly aka vasoline and it hasn't helped. So the snorkel with the prefilter should help a lot. More terrified of dusting the motor over the long term than water. God willing I never turn my rig into a pontoon. I will not do any water crossing that goes 75% to the top of my tires. It's just not worth it for me. It's my DD. Looks great on video or pictures but no, nope and nah. I've seen way more serious damage caused by water than broken CV's or body damage.

This is just my thought on sealing things up from water. Start low. The stock differential is the lowest point for a breather. There is a pretty high chance that crossing a big puddle that you will get water up to the top of the breather without going that deep. So that is a good place to start. Simple and cheap as well. The ARB kit with everything included is less than $100. Tools required; an adjustable wrench if you don't have a wrench set, drill to attach manifold with screws. If you can change a florescent light bulb you can install a diff breather. Probably simpler than an oil change and cleaner. The transmission breather is routed very high and odds of getting water in there are low unless you are planing to float a bit. But worth doing if you plan on being in high water once. The last would be the snorkel for water. A snorkel for water crossing is the last line of defense. If you hit water that is above the wheel well where the cold air intake draws from that means the entire engine bay is under water. Or dang near close to it. So the air box inside that the snorkel is connected better be water proof along with every fitting and connection point on that line including your MAF sensor-and every other wire and connection (If you place your breather's manifold on the top side of the fire wall and you go this deep it's only about 2" above the water line...) There is also the alternator you have to worry about now. It's low on a 200. Basically if it is being taken so deep in water that the engine will suck water in from the stock air intake point there are a lot of other points that need to be addressed besides breathers and a snorkel.

Reality is almost no one does this. And if you do it is not your DD it's an off road extreme machine. Probably not a 200LC and if it is you can afford an extreme hobby. I went off the rails a bit. Protect the first areas that will most likely be submerged in water first. Work the way up the line as needed.

 

[grinchy]

For those With a snorkel, why can’t the breathers be routed into the top side of the air box? Is there vacuum there to worry about?

 

[Lester did that]

For those With a snorkel, why can’t the breathers be routed into the top side of the air box? Is there vacuum there to worry about

The manifold for the breathers has to be mounted with screws or bolts. So now we have 3 holes to seal up. The hose coming in has to be water tight and the holes from what ever was done to mount the manifold. The top of the fire wall is pretty dang high as is. If you get that deep in water it is up to the passenger windows and windscreen. Your floating at that point with water pouring into the back and starting to come in around the door seals. 200's have a lot of electric going on everywhere. They don't appreciate a good float down the river.