Diesel newbie thinks 12H-T is underpowered - help needed

[DanS HJ-45]

lisponer & Dan, I will be in Colorado 3 separate times over the next 4 months. Any chance I could take your 12HT for a spin? I think driving another one would really give me a sense of what I am looking for - even if gearing, tires etc are different. I'll be driving right past Idaho Springs (in a rental) Wed 4/29 sometime between 4 and 7pm. No worries if it doesn't work out, but pizza and beer are on me.

Absolutely.

However.... I will be leaving on the morning of wednesday the 29th for Cruise Moab. I should be back on Sunday the 3rd though.

No real idea on my (or the truck's) schedule past that yet.

I'll pm you my phone number so you can try to catch me.

Dan

 

[lisponger]

Ditto!

I'll PM you as well.

I wish I was going to Cruise MOAB but my OME suspension isn't on just yet!

 

[DanS HJ-45]

Ditto!

I'll PM you as well.

I wish I was going to Cruise MOAB but my OME suspension isn't on just yet!

You realize you're just a day away from fixing that problem right? Maybe a half day if you work fast.

Time to burn some midnight oil!

Dan

 

[TLink FJ60]

Turns out that red canister thingy with hose connected to the air intake just past the air filter is a "Cesium Oxide Fuel Catalyst" dispenser. A similar product is described here... http://www.tradezz.com/buy_1496904_Celcat-Fuel-Catalyst.htm. Supposedly reduces emissions, increases efficiency and increases power - hmm wonder what kinda power I'd have without it. Its probably no longer doing anything.

I removed it and discovered there is English writing on the other side. The brand is "Celcat".

Pic of canister and "intake" on the bottom of the canister

 

[roscoFJ73]

- hmm wonder what kinda power I'd have without it. Its probably no longer doing anything.

I would be surprised if it ever did do anything. Any gadget that promises 10-18% improvement on fuel economy and 15% more power is just nonsense.
Have you tried to see how far the RPMs will go in neutral?

 

[TLink FJ60]

I would be surprised if it ever did do anything. Any gadget that promises 10-18% improvement on fuel economy and 15% more power is just nonsense.
Have you tried to see how far the RPMs will go in neutral?

roscoFJ73, that is on the list for this evening. Darn work keeps getting in the way. I believe 4170rpms is the magic number I'm looking for. Will report back.

 

[TLink FJ60]

Okay, using the HJ's built in tachometer, I got max engine speed of right at 4100. The book says 4170, but I'm assuming that the difference is negligible, and that the built-in tach is not that precise anyway. Is it worth adjust the max speed to get me from 4100 to 4170? I might also add that my idle speed is about 700-750, book says it should be 650 I think.

 

[niffa]

Man thats big revs. Id have broken ears after doing that

 

[TLink FJ60]

Yeah, I didn't like doing it. Before that, I've never been over 3100. I've had my FJ60 gasser for 18 years and I've never had it past 3200 rpms, seldom even over 2700. But 4100 in the 12HT wasn't as bad as I thought. But we won't be making a habit of it.

 

[VX 12HT]

Turns out that red canister thingy with hose connected to the air intake just past the air filter is a "Cesium Oxide Fuel Catalyst" dispenser. A similar product is described here... http://www.tradezz.com/buy_1496904_Celcat-Fuel-Catalyst.htm. Supposedly reduces emissions, increases efficiency and increases power - hmm wonder what kinda power I'd have without it. Its probably no longer doing anything.

I removed it and discovered there is English writing on the other side. The brand is "Celcat".

Pic of canister and "intake" on the bottom of the canister
View attachment 1064703 View attachment 1064702

I had one of these on mine I took it off did not feel any difference in power or economy mine was on the car when it was imported from Japan.

 

[TLink FJ60]

Update. Some positive news!

You guys said fuel is low. So, I read through some other threads on fuel adjustment. My main fuel screw (front of IP) is missing tamper wire. Rear appears to still have one, although I can't really see it, just going by feeling it (that darn Fuel Catalyst canister is in the way - it's coming off soon). I turned up the main/front fuel screw 1/2 turn. HUGE difference. There is a very noticeable difference in power especially in the 1500 - 2000 rpm range.

BEFORE I had to wind it out in 2nd gear (~3100 rpms) high enough to hit 3rd at about 1800-1900 rpms or else I could not accelerate at all in 3rd (with slight incline). NOW, I can shift out of 2nd around 2400 rpms and hit 3rd much lower. I'm getting boost (and presumably fuel) at much lower rpms. My only test drive so far was taking my daughter to school, 5 miles, hills, traffic, top speed 50mph/80kph. Can't wait to put the HJ61 through a more rigid test on the highway later.

Initial EGTs response: accelerating to 45mph (75+ kph) I'm easily hitting 650-700F. To the floor on a 1/4 mile long hill in 4th gear I hit 875F. I don't know how high it would have gone because I had to slow down (yes, I said slow down) when I caught up to the car in front of me.

For some reason, the fuel must have been turned way down on this thing. I don't know why. I suspect it may still be a little below baseline, but I want to get better numbers before I do more.

 

[IanB]

Great news! You'll hit boost sooner as there's more energy in the exhaust flow to spool it up sooner with the extra fuel. Any black smoke under acceleration?

 

[TLink FJ60]

Great news! You'll hit boost sooner as there's more energy in the exhaust flow to spool it up sooner with the extra fuel. Any black smoke under acceleration?

No black smoke. I have yet to see black smoke out of this engine except a puff sometimes when it starts. I do get some either white or blue (hard to distinguish) when it is cold but it goes away fairly quickly.

 

[niffa]

Turn it another half!!!

 

[niffa]

Then turn up boost to 12 or 13 psi and turn it half or so again.. youll like what u feel

 

[TLink FJ60]

Then turn up boost to 12 or 13 psi and turn it half or so again.. youll like what u feel

Okay, I haven't had a chance to make any adjustments. To turn up boost do I need a manual boost controller, or is there a way to do it with what I already have under the hood? I may not do it right away, but I want to have what I need so I can when I'm ready. Thanks.

 

[niffa]

Get a manual boost controller off ebay or whatever and stick it on the wastegate. Apparently you can shim the wastegate actuator but i didnt go that route
If you shell out for a 3" zaust you wont regret it either. no muffler, sounds tough as nails

 

[TLink FJ60]

Thanks niffa, looks like I still have more upside potential to play with later.

For now, I have not made any additional adjustments - still a total of 1/2 turn from where it was. I took her for a long drive on the interstate today and recorded findings. Great results! This is middle Tennessee where there are long rolling hills 0.5 to 1.0 mile long, with various grades but most fairly moderate (2-4%) with an occasional steeper hill (5-7% ??). The power was good throughout. The drivability was satisfying.

My approach was - drive for a period of time at a fixed rpm, and note MPH, EGT, Boost. The variation in these is what I observed over the course of about 20 minutes at each speed going up and down hills. All in 5th gear. (again, 31" tires)

@2000rpms > ~50mph > EGT:550-800 F > Boost:0-7psi (mostly 3-4)
@2500rpms > ~65mph > EGT:700-900 F > Boost:5-7psi
@2700rpms > ~70mph > EGT:800-1050 F > Boost:6-7psi

At one point I pushed her up a longer hill at 2900 rpms, this was probably only for about 60 seconds 'cause I ran out of hill...
@2900rpms > ~75mph > EGT: 1200 F > Boost:7psi (I don't know if it would have gotten hotter if I had more hill)

Questions:
1. Do these numbers look like I'm close to factory conditions? I'm feeling pretty good about them.
2. What would be a comfortable and healthy EGT target for a longer road trip.
3. What EGT should I never allow her to reach?
4. Folks say I should be able to reach 1200, but how long is it safe to stay there? At one point do I start risking engine life?

Thanks so much to everyone who has taken an interest in helping me out. Yall are great!

 

[niffa]

Sounds as though ur around the mark with your fuel setting. 1200 F is sustained max. So as long as you dont push extra hard and watch the egt spike well above that for long drawn out periods i think you will be fine. These engines are old and id expect that throughout their life they have been pushed high with stock settings. I managed to hit 700c once on a freeway with the foot flat to see how fast she would go. I backed out at 145kmh. Im running 33s 13psi with intercooler and fuel up a bit. I rarely have to push the engine beyond what its made for eg: slow truck. If i wanna do 300kmh i have a bike for that

 

[TLC Norway]

Joining this thread, as im about to tap my manifold for egt.
Planned to adjust the valves while taking all the stuff out. or is it possible just to unbolt the turbo and push it sideways, to get control over all the metal filings. I was prepped to take out all intakes, turbo, oil and water cooling and so on. but it seems possible no leave most of it in there.
(?)

Planning to test out the shim metod on the wastegate, or thread the rod for adjustment.
Running stock pump settings now, 7psi max, 2,5 stainless exhaust. I'll go up to about 10psi and see if the boost compensator follows up with a tad more fuel, or i'll have to give it a bit more on the pump.