Dies When Hot (2 Viewers)

[Dan Porter]

Hey all,
I have a super annoying and very intermittent issue with our 2006 LX470- 130,000 miles.
This has only happened four times in the past year. Each time was a couple hundred miles from home, after driving for several hours, during very hot conditions and while pulling our small camper. The truck will either sputter and die when we are driving at slower speeds (fine at highway speeds) or won't start after turning it off. It will restart and run fine after letting it sit for a few minutes.

• No codes
• Turns over just fine. Sounds like it's not getting fuel.
• Currently running at about 198 degrees, although it was having some near overheating issues last year during the first two instances
• Replaced the fuel pump
• Replaced the fuel filter
• Cleaned throttle body.
• Cleaned the mass airflow sensor
• Flushed and filled the radiator
• Replaced the fan clutch
• Replaced the thermostat
• The last time I unhooked the fuel line at the filter and fuel was spraying out
• Once it restarted after I smacked the carpet right where the fuel pump is but that might have been a coincidence (I had already replaced the fuel pump by this point)
• The first two times it sputtered, lost power and eventually died. Even under full gas it was barely moving. Of course, it died 30 feet from our campsite, blocking the whole road.
• The final two times it wouldn't restart after turning it off although it was running fine beforehand.
• Once the truck shuts down and only cranks, a very strong chemical is in the cabin. I *think* it's Feron. It does not smell like gas.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. We're heading to Yellowstone and the Tetons in a few weeks I'd love to have this resolved by then.

Thanks

 

[SteveH]

Every time it dies, pull the fuel filter outlet line, cycle the ignition, and see if it shoots gas (don't catch the truck on fire). Also, check fuel pump wiring under driver's side door, per this: Fuel pump wiring failure - and the fix - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/fuel-pump-wiring-failure-and-the-fix.1325429/

 

[AARONTLC]

Classic Cam Position Sensor issue.

 

[Mike NXP]

Classic Cam Position Sensor issue.

But wouldn't this happen more often and not relate to heat?


OP, does it ever happen when cold or only at operating temp?

Did you replace with OEM fuel pump?

For another quick check, inspect the wires near oil filter and serpentine belt to make sure nothing has rubbed

When you stall and it's really hot, what if you open your gas cap? Do you hear fuel boiling / hissing ?

 

[Dan Porter]

Thanks for all the replies this far, everyone.
Yep, OEM pump.
Yeah, it's only happened when the outdoor temps are in the '90s and we've been running it kind of hard- pulling the camper at highway speeds. We've never had an issue during cooler temperatures or when pulling the camper in cooler temperatures.

I feel like there's an electrical connection that is expanding in the heat and then contracting after it cools down.

 

[Mike NXP]

Thanks for all the replies this far, everyone.
Yep, OEM pump.
Yeah, it's only happened when the outdoor temps are in the '90s and we've been running it kind of hard- pulling the camper at highway speeds. We've never had an issue during cooler temperatures or when pulling the camper in cooler temperatures.

I feel like there's an electrical connection that is expanding in the heat and then contracting after it cools down.

Hmmm....IDK. This is just one guys opinion but based on your symptoms I think you are chasing another issue, not electrical... Again, just a guess based on the history you are telling.

Seems more related to air / fuel / engine temp
>> Symptoms sound a lot like many other threads here that eventually replaced fuel pump ( no check engine lights, interment, dies under load / hot ) But all of the suggestion I'd make you seem to have already done ( cleaning maf, fuel pump, tb clean, etc.)

I don't know much about tech stream or like live monitoring of stuff but maybe you need to try and monitor fuel trims and stuff like that. I've read some similar threads about that process.
>> you also mentioned an event where you smacked the floor by the pump and it happened to work. How hard is it to get to the fuel pump again? Is it worth making just checking some connections? I've never done a pump swap on this vehicle so not much other advice on that topic.


Mud world, do these symptoms have anything to do with the EFI relay or is that only a factor when you get the crank / no start issue?

 

[newbielx470]

Please take a look at this thread:

Very strange: hot weather and sudden rough running, no power, major shuddering

Any ideas about what I could be looking at here? 2006 LX with 208K on it. New plugs and coils about 15K miles ago, also new radiator. Has always run VERY well. I was in heavy traffic yesterday and it was about 100 degrees outside. It was fine and the A/C was cold and there were no apparent...

forum.ih8mud.com

Including my reply post #10. If the problem goes away after a few minutes and it's a 06/07, possibly a fuel pump issue.

 

[Mike NXP]

Please take a look at this thread:

Very strange: hot weather and sudden rough running, no power, major shuddering

Any ideas about what I could be looking at here? 2006 LX with 208K on it. New plugs and coils about 15K miles ago, also new radiator. Has always run VERY well. I was in heavy traffic yesterday and it was about 100 degrees outside. It was fine and the A/C was cold and there were no apparent...

forum.ih8mud.com

Including my reply post #10. If the problem goes away after a few minutes and it's a 06/07, possibly a fuel pump issue.

OP already swapped pump with OEM ...possible connection issue ? Bad oem pump?

 

[Dan Porter]

Please take a look at this thread:

Very strange: hot weather and sudden rough running, no power, major shuddering

Any ideas about what I could be looking at here? 2006 LX with 208K on it. New plugs and coils about 15K miles ago, also new radiator. Has always run VERY well. I was in heavy traffic yesterday and it was about 100 degrees outside. It was fine and the A/C was cold and there were no apparent...

forum.ih8mud.com

Including my reply post #10. If the problem goes away after a few minutes and it's a 06/07, possibly a fuel pump issue.

Yep, that sounds very similar. I already threw a fuel pump at the problem and that didn't fix it.

 

[OEMGUY0720]

Premature failure of the fuel pump is caused by “hot” fuel. Any electrical / mechanical component especially fuel pump achilles heel is Heat. If you can mitigate fuel overheating, you can prolong the life of the fuel pump and increase reliability/ dependability.

Solution: adequately insulating your fuel tank and fuel lines from the exhaust piping especially on a VVTi 100 series.

 

[DBULL]

Take a look at this.Voltage to the fuel pump is reduced by a resistor at lower rpms…

 

[DBULL]

Take a look at this.Voltage to the fuel pump is reduced by a resistor at lower rpms…

View attachment 3665639

 

[kbfj621989]

Maybe insulation on the fuel lines would help.

What have you done to your 100 Series this week?

I had some free time and stopped by the Toyota service center for a complementary brake inspection a few weeks ago (and to log in an event on carfax with mileage) on this new to me 2000 LC. Service advisor said fronts were 6mm and rear were not checked as they were ‘drum’ brakes. 🤦‍♂️ Needless...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[OEMGUY0720]

Maybe insulation on the fuel lines would help.

What have you done to your 100 Series this week?

I had some free time and stopped by the Toyota service center for a complementary brake inspection a few weeks ago (and to log in an event on carfax with mileage) on this new to me 2000 LC. Service advisor said fronts were 6mm and rear were not checked as they were ‘drum’ brakes. 🤦‍♂️ Needless...

forum.ih8mud.com

Yes any help to lower the temps on the fuel tank / fuel lines from the heat that the exhaust pipes are emitting is beneficial.

example of the fuel line in the rear wrapped in industrial grade insulation pads.

 

[bdobyns]

Hey all,
I have a super annoying and very intermittent issue with our 2006 LX470- 130,000 miles.
This has only happened four times in the past year. Each time was a couple hundred miles from home, after driving for several hours, during very hot conditions and while pulling our small camper. The truck will either sputter and die when we are driving at slower speeds (fine at highway speeds) or won't start after turning it off. It will restart and run fine after letting it sit for a few minutes.

• No codes
• Turns over just fine. Sounds like it's not getting fuel.
• Currently running at about 198 degrees, although it was having some near overheating issues last year during the first two instances
• Replaced the fuel pump
• Replaced the fuel filter
• Cleaned throttle body.
• Cleaned the mass airflow sensor
• Flushed and filled the radiator
• Replaced the fan clutch
• Replaced the thermostat
• The last time I unhooked the fuel line at the filter and fuel was spraying out
• Once it restarted after I smacked the carpet right where the fuel pump is but that might have been a coincidence (I had already replaced the fuel pump by this point)
• The first two times it sputtered, lost power and eventually died. Even under full gas it was barely moving. Of course, it died 30 feet from our campsite, blocking the whole road.
• The final two times it wouldn't restart after turning it off although it was running fine beforehand.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. We're heading to Yellowstone and the Tetons in a few weeks I'd love to have this resolved by then.

Thanks

I can only tell you what my issue was and maybe it is similar. I have a 2007, fully armoured with skids underneath. the fuel tank and lines are behind the skids. While driving in the desert, during the day, over 100 degrees, going up hill, with four adults and all their luggage, we had no problems, the air movement helped to keep the fuel line from getting too hot as well as the flow rate from the tank to the engine compartment, 10 miles to the gallon. We pulled into a rest stop, and when returning to the truck, the gas had vaporized due to the extreme air temp, trapped heat and no air movement. We let it sit for about 15-20 mins, things cooled down a bit, it started and has had no problem since. I am going to assume that this could be your problem. You might want to try insulating the fuel line. Do you have skids underneath? If not needed, you might think about removing them and see if that helps.

 

[RAMf1]

The fuel line is located along the inner frame rail on the driver's side close to the catalytic converter. Lack of airflow will cause the fuel to boil and your car will not start... It seems electrical because the computer shuts things down. The vehicle will start again once everything cools. Wrap the fuel line in insulation specifically made for that purpose... there are plenty of options on Amazon. If you have skid plates, they make the situation worse. Besides wrapping my fuel lines, I also drilled large holes in the ASFIR skid plate in that area to dissipate the trapped heat. I've never had the problem again since doing these two things.

 

[2001LC]

Sound like ECT is within spec. Assume well tuned, coolant system as it should be. FPR working properly. Basically all as it should be. You may need to replace Charcoal Canister (CC).

98-02 have less issue with CC, but even those with miles will eventually need replacing.
03-up CC, are much more likely to be saturated, and need replacing at lower miles. Why:
Over filling gas tank. By just squeezing handle after auto pump shut off.
Fill gas tank, than climbing a hill where fuel so full it get to gas cap. Toss in rocking and shaking on rocky road, fuel gets into CC.
Fuel tank topped on hot day, expanding to cap.

 

[Dan Porter]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the input.
One additional clue I forgot to mention but will add to the original post.
Once the truck shuts down and only cranks, a very strong chemical is in the cabin. I *think* it's Feron. It does not smell like gas.

I plan to wrap the fuel lines this week. We're heading out on the 5th for the Tetons and Yellostone, so hopefully, that will help.
I'm apprehensive about replacing the charcoal canister due to the cost. Is there a way to test it?

 

[jademica100]

I am a noob with 100 series, but I had a similar issues with one of my Audis and it was vapor lock. How old is your gas cap?

I am assuming a 100 series would throw a code for EGR valve issues? Sounds like the few things that were not discussed or checked...

 

[JohnnyUtah2]

Sound like ECT is within spec. Assume well tuned, coolant system as it should be. FPR working properly. Basically all as it should be. You may need to replace Charcoal Canister (CC).

98-02 have less issue with CC, but even those with miles will eventually need replacing.
03-up CC, are much more likely to be saturated, and need replacing at lower miles. Why:
Over filling gas tank. By just squeezing handle after auto pump shut off.
Fill gas tank, than climbing a hill where fuel so full it get to gas cap. Toss in rocking and shaking on rocky road, fuel gets into CC.
Fuel tank topped on hot day, expanding to cap.

I am leaning towards the charcoal canister too.