Design life of a 100 series engine and drivetrain
- Thread starter Pitbull
- Start date
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68,932 miles
[quote author=Pitbull link=board=2;threadid=13933;start=msg129247#msg129247 date=1080622912]
What do you think will be normal with average care? Do you think it will be as good as the 80 series?
[/quote]
Maybe but prolly not.
Think of the inherent balance that comes with a Strait 6 that is lost in the v8.
Also it doesnt have a timing chain. You can change the belts on your 100 but they fatiuge. Or Mr yoda coulda done something really special with the v8 ? :-\
What do you think will be normal with average care? Do you think it will be as good as the 80 series?
[/quote]
Maybe but prolly not.
Think of the inherent balance that comes with a Strait 6 that is lost in the v8.
Also it doesnt have a timing chain. You can change the belts on your 100 but they fatiuge. Or Mr yoda coulda done something really special with the v8 ? :-\
80and100cruisers
SILVER Star
Forever 
I'm also around 68k, no problems. I expect (and better get) many more trouble free miles.
-Matt
I'm also around 68k, no problems. I expect (and better get) many more trouble free miles.-Matt
I bet the 4.7ltr lasts along time, maybe even longer than the 4.5ltr. Isn't the 4.7ltr derived from the Lexus 400 motor? if so I was told(buy someone I trust) that the Lexus 4.0 was one of only 2 engines that the engineers at Toyota/Lexus has free rain on spending money to develop it........if so its prolly gonna live along life.
What worries me about the 100's are the complex electonics.........I looked at the 100 series FSM's and pretty much decided my 100 will be seeing the dealer for alot of stuff. I don't think in 40 years you will see 100's still on the road, like you see old fj40's today(and 40 years from now)......just too much stuff to mess with.
John h
What worries me about the 100's are the complex electonics.........I looked at the 100 series FSM's and pretty much decided my 100 will be seeing the dealer for alot of stuff. I don't think in 40 years you will see 100's still on the road, like you see old fj40's today(and 40 years from now)......just too much stuff to mess with.
John h
My way of looking at it is simple. The 4.5 1fz is a direct descendant of the durable f's 2f 3fe and so on. How many years has the v8 seen service? 6 yrs? Do you want something that has 6 yrs of devolvement behind it or something that has been evolving for the past 40?
I think the 100-series will last atleast as long as the 80s have, there are several improvements over the 80. The front axle, which on the 80 is a constant worry, are the knuckles leaking, will they be leaking tomorrow? With the 100 it's all IFS with sealed rubber boots, which as far as durability is a much better design, with the sealed rubber boot full of grease, the grease can't go anywhere, the joint never leaks, etc. Ofcourse there is the issue of whether you like IFS over live axle, but we're just talking durability here.
I don't understand where this notion that a V8 is any less of a quality engine than a I6 comes from. There have been millions of V8s over the years, just because this is the first Toyota has made means nothing...no, actually it means that they took what they learned from making millions of I4s and I6s and put those same ideas into a V8, which is arguably better than any other V8 made to that point. Part of the 'lore' of the I6 is not just that it runs forever, but it has lots of torque and therefore is easy to drive, good 'offroad' engine, that's neat but being a good 'offroad' engine does not make it last any longer.
The 4.7L is the exact same Lexus V8 put in the LS400s (family sedan), only with a taller deck height, longer stroke, more displacement, many of those cars are well over 200K miles and never had a problem. The LS400's are one of the nicest, oldest cars you can buy that still are wonderful cars, even with hundreds of thousands of miles on them.
Rarely is the engine the limiting factor in any vehicle though, almost all Honda cars made will run to over 200K miles, but most don't because the owner gives up on them, or something small goes out (alternator, water pump, etc) and they dump the car. Even cheap cars, like a Ford Escort, I've had 3, all ran to 170K+ miles, never a problem, and I sold or gave them all away and everyone was still running fine. So the engine is hardly the question in my book. I think the interior is a very good estimate of how the vehicles will last.
Compare a '98 Cruiser to a '98 Durango (did they have them in '98?), or a '98 Explorer, even from normal wear and tear, the Cruiser fares much better, higher quality materials, more sound proofing, etc. That is what makes the vehicle last in the public's eyes. You can have a drivetrain that will run forever but if the interior is shot, paint peeling, nobody will drive it and the vehicle has effectively not lasted as long.
On the other hand you have the 100 series, quality built vehicles which many are well over 100K miles, in only a few years, look/feel/drive great, not like a 6 yr old vehicle with 100K+ miles, but like something new.
I'll buy a 100-series just as soon as my 80 wears out, and damnit it hasn't yet!
Just my $0.00 worth...
Mark Brodis
I don't understand where this notion that a V8 is any less of a quality engine than a I6 comes from. There have been millions of V8s over the years, just because this is the first Toyota has made means nothing...no, actually it means that they took what they learned from making millions of I4s and I6s and put those same ideas into a V8, which is arguably better than any other V8 made to that point. Part of the 'lore' of the I6 is not just that it runs forever, but it has lots of torque and therefore is easy to drive, good 'offroad' engine, that's neat but being a good 'offroad' engine does not make it last any longer.
The 4.7L is the exact same Lexus V8 put in the LS400s (family sedan), only with a taller deck height, longer stroke, more displacement, many of those cars are well over 200K miles and never had a problem. The LS400's are one of the nicest, oldest cars you can buy that still are wonderful cars, even with hundreds of thousands of miles on them.
Rarely is the engine the limiting factor in any vehicle though, almost all Honda cars made will run to over 200K miles, but most don't because the owner gives up on them, or something small goes out (alternator, water pump, etc) and they dump the car. Even cheap cars, like a Ford Escort, I've had 3, all ran to 170K+ miles, never a problem, and I sold or gave them all away and everyone was still running fine. So the engine is hardly the question in my book. I think the interior is a very good estimate of how the vehicles will last.
Compare a '98 Cruiser to a '98 Durango (did they have them in '98?), or a '98 Explorer, even from normal wear and tear, the Cruiser fares much better, higher quality materials, more sound proofing, etc. That is what makes the vehicle last in the public's eyes. You can have a drivetrain that will run forever but if the interior is shot, paint peeling, nobody will drive it and the vehicle has effectively not lasted as long.
On the other hand you have the 100 series, quality built vehicles which many are well over 100K miles, in only a few years, look/feel/drive great, not like a 6 yr old vehicle with 100K+ miles, but like something new.
I'll buy a 100-series just as soon as my 80 wears out, and damnit it hasn't yet!
Just my $0.00 worth...
Mark Brodis
I just have one question. Do 100's come out of the Araco plant?
One thought... from when I was interested in getting a Tundra (pre LC) I read about piston slap in the Tundra 4.7 V8, same engine. It wasn't common, but was one of the common problems IIRC. Not sure if anyone else heard of it, or my memory is failing me. If true, seems it might affect the 100's as well.
Yes the 100/105 does, the 120 series does not.
[quote author=moralien link=board=2;threadid=13933;start=msg129525#msg129525 date=1080671206]
I just have one question. Do 100's come out of the Araco plant?
[/quote]
[quote author=moralien link=board=2;threadid=13933;start=msg129525#msg129525 date=1080671206]
I just have one question. Do 100's come out of the Araco plant?
[/quote]
[quote author=mabrodis link=board=2;threadid=13933;start=msg129520#msg129520 date=1080670931]
The 4.7L is the exact same Lexus V8 put in the LS400s (family sedan), only with a taller deck height, longer stroke, more displacement,
[/quote]
Not exactly. The 1UZ is an all Aluminum engine and has no common parts (except for the oil filter) shared with the Iron block 2UZ
The 4.7L is the exact same Lexus V8 put in the LS400s (family sedan), only with a taller deck height, longer stroke, more displacement,
[/quote]
Not exactly. The 1UZ is an all Aluminum engine and has no common parts (except for the oil filter) shared with the Iron block 2UZ
[quote author=cruiserdan link=board=2;threadid=13933;start=msg129576#msg129576 date=1080675706]
Not exactly. The 1UZ is an all Aluminum engine and has no common parts (except for the oil filter) shared with the Iron block 2UZ
[/quote]
Ah ha, no common parts, but common ideas!
Ok, fine, combat my statements with "truth", or "real facts", or actual "knowledge". This is the internet, there is no place for that kind of thing here!
From what I've always read/heard the 4.7L came from the 'Lexus' line versus the 'Toyota' line. However I'm not entire sure that even makes sense, since they are the same company, obiouvsly have different parts but hard to imagine they are very divided internally.
Thanks for you input..
Mark Brodis
Not exactly. The 1UZ is an all Aluminum engine and has no common parts (except for the oil filter) shared with the Iron block 2UZ
[/quote]
Ah ha, no common parts, but common ideas!
Ok, fine, combat my statements with "truth", or "real facts", or actual "knowledge". This is the internet, there is no place for that kind of thing here!
From what I've always read/heard the 4.7L came from the 'Lexus' line versus the 'Toyota' line. However I'm not entire sure that even makes sense, since they are the same company, obiouvsly have different parts but hard to imagine they are very divided internally.
Thanks for you input..
Mark Brodis
ppc
M Go Blue
[quote author=moralien link=board=2;threadid=13933;start=msg129474#msg129474 date=1080667501]
My way of looking at it is simple. The 4.5 1fz is a direct descendant of the durable f's 2f 3fe and so on. How many years has the v8 seen service? 6 yrs? Do you want something that has 6 yrs of devolvement behind it or something that has been evolving for the past 40?
[/quote]
I don't think the 1FZ is a direct descendant. According to folklore this engine was designed from the ground up and was originally intended to go into the 80 series from the start. Due to design/engineering problems the 3FE was carried over in 91-92 before the 1FZ was ready to go in 93.
My way of looking at it is simple. The 4.5 1fz is a direct descendant of the durable f's 2f 3fe and so on. How many years has the v8 seen service? 6 yrs? Do you want something that has 6 yrs of devolvement behind it or something that has been evolving for the past 40?
[/quote]
I don't think the 1FZ is a direct descendant. According to folklore this engine was designed from the ground up and was originally intended to go into the 80 series from the start. Due to design/engineering problems the 3FE was carried over in 91-92 before the 1FZ was ready to go in 93.
I found this info on the uzj100 engine, even though it does not mention design life parameters, it has some other interesting info and common parts with the Lexus 400 engine.
http://www.nowratoyota.com.au/4wd/lc100/lc3.html
http://www.nowratoyota.com.au/4wd/lc100/lc3.html
bjowett
Supporting Vendor
The 1UZ, being aluminum, uses 6 bolt mains. As Dan mentions, not too much will cross over to the 2UZ in terms of 'same part'. Parts from the 2 engines could be combined to produce a real monster. The heads, cams, intake, and exhaust manifolds (depends on model) are all tuned for much greater performance. I read that TRD used those parts on a project Tundra to build a real power house. For Toyota V8 performance, check out http://www.lextreme.com Look around in tech and cruise the forums.
If anyone has some interest, I have a nice nearly complete 1UZ sitting in the garage. It is only missing the airflow meter and ECU. I also have the 34x series transmission to go with it. $500 for all of it. 300hp+ using all factory Toyota parts... anyone?
If anyone has some interest, I have a nice nearly complete 1UZ sitting in the garage. It is only missing the airflow meter and ECU. I also have the 34x series transmission to go with it. $500 for all of it. 300hp+ using all factory Toyota parts... anyone?
[quote author=bjowett link=board=2;threadid=13933;start=msg131260#msg131260 date=1080875706]
If anyone has some interest, I have a nice nearly complete 1UZ sitting in the garage. It is only missing the airflow meter and ECU. I also have the 34x series transmission to go with it. $500 for all of it. 300hp+ using all factory Toyota parts... anyone?
[/quote]
I'll take it..... if it includes free install into my FZJ80
If anyone has some interest, I have a nice nearly complete 1UZ sitting in the garage. It is only missing the airflow meter and ECU. I also have the 34x series transmission to go with it. $500 for all of it. 300hp+ using all factory Toyota parts... anyone?
[/quote]
I'll take it..... if it includes free install into my FZJ80
[quote author=mabrodis link=board=2;threadid=13933;start=msg129520#msg129520 date=1080670931]
I think the 100-series will last atleast as long as the 80s have, there are several improvements over the 80. The front axle, which on the 80 is a constant worry, are the knuckles leaking, will they be leaking tomorrow? With the 100 it's all IFS with sealed rubber boots, which as far as durability is a much better design, with the sealed rubber boot full of grease, the grease can't go anywhere, the joint never leaks, etc. Ofcourse there is the issue of whether you like IFS over live axle, but we're just talking durability here.
[/quote]
"clears throat"
IFS front axle more durable???
ok, this is quoted from april 2004 australian 4wd monthly issue 65, page`116, in an article on buying a used 100.
"the gxv (remember only top of the $$$ range 100's got IFS in aust) pointed a limp-wristed finger at the land cruisers future by appearing with an independant front end. Not only were these big softies lower down in the front, they lacked the rigid axles ability to cope with severe offroad"
not enough for you then? a caption on the same page quotes
"if you see one of these (IFS in picture) get off the ground and go look at something else! the IFS is known to split it's sooky little rubber socks (boots) and grind out the CV's- and that's before you go offroad"
i also wheel with a guy that owns a 4 runner with IFS, and i know he does a lot more front axle/ suspension damage than anyone else in the group, so much so that he refuses to come offroad most of the time. leaking knuckles are a small price to pay for articulation and durability. and you can fix leaky knuckles quite easily (if you consider a front end rebuild easy )
I think the 100-series will last atleast as long as the 80s have, there are several improvements over the 80. The front axle, which on the 80 is a constant worry, are the knuckles leaking, will they be leaking tomorrow? With the 100 it's all IFS with sealed rubber boots, which as far as durability is a much better design, with the sealed rubber boot full of grease, the grease can't go anywhere, the joint never leaks, etc. Ofcourse there is the issue of whether you like IFS over live axle, but we're just talking durability here.
[/quote]
"clears throat"
IFS front axle more durable???
ok, this is quoted from april 2004 australian 4wd monthly issue 65, page`116, in an article on buying a used 100.
"the gxv (remember only top of the $$$ range 100's got IFS in aust) pointed a limp-wristed finger at the land cruisers future by appearing with an independant front end. Not only were these big softies lower down in the front, they lacked the rigid axles ability to cope with severe offroad"
not enough for you then? a caption on the same page quotes
"if you see one of these (IFS in picture) get off the ground and go look at something else! the IFS is known to split it's sooky little rubber socks (boots) and grind out the CV's- and that's before you go offroad"
i also wheel with a guy that owns a 4 runner with IFS, and i know he does a lot more front axle/ suspension damage than anyone else in the group, so much so that he refuses to come offroad most of the time. leaking knuckles are a small price to pay for articulation and durability. and you can fix leaky knuckles quite easily (if you consider a front end rebuild easy
)
I don't see the big deal about IFS and some comparing it to the 80 axle.
I have owned both I don't know where I have taken my 80 where the 100 can't go. Both trucks were locked front & rear. Yes there isn't as much travel in the front of a 100 compared to the 80 but if both trucks were locked I am not sure where the 80 can go and 100 can't.
I don't drive the Rubicon every weekend so having the IFS doesn't stop me from doing all the other trails I want to try. I think that 100 series is a very comfortable car and a very capable car. I am biased but if I had to pick between the 80 or he 100 and knowing what kind of wheeling I do. I would pick the 100. The 100 is very smooth, its quiet (even with Super Swampers), knowing Toyota, it will last just as long as the other Toyota's that comes out of Araco.
Everyone has their opinion and this is mine. So I hope that I didn't upset anyone with this post but I think people should give the 100 a benefit of a doubt or not at least drive it for a few days before talking smack about it.
I have owned both I don't know where I have taken my 80 where the 100 can't go. Both trucks were locked front & rear. Yes there isn't as much travel in the front of a 100 compared to the 80 but if both trucks were locked I am not sure where the 80 can go and 100 can't.
I don't drive the Rubicon every weekend so having the IFS doesn't stop me from doing all the other trails I want to try. I think that 100 series is a very comfortable car and a very capable car. I am biased but if I had to pick between the 80 or he 100 and knowing what kind of wheeling I do. I would pick the 100. The 100 is very smooth, its quiet (even with Super Swampers), knowing Toyota, it will last just as long as the other Toyota's that comes out of Araco.
Everyone has their opinion and this is mine. So I hope that I didn't upset anyone with this post but I think people should give the 100 a benefit of a doubt or not at least drive it for a few days before talking smack about it.
i wasn't bashing IFS, it is fine (better than fine for a road car) but i was responding to a claim that IFS= longer life span of car. The article i quoted also states that mechanics have little warning of this boot splitting, and that the CV's were chewed out in less than 1000 k's from the time of the last service, where it was checked.
But this is australian info, and apparently we're pretty hard on cars
but to all IFS cruiser owners, it might be an idea to keep an eye on these boots.
the rest i am sure is top toyota quality. i do have abias towards I6's. but then again i have a bias towards diesels too.
But this is australian info, and apparently we're pretty hard on cars
but to all IFS cruiser owners, it might be an idea to keep an eye on these boots.
the rest i am sure is top toyota quality. i do have abias towards I6's. but then again i have a bias towards diesels too.
- Thread starter
- #20
On www.bobistheoilguy.com the members in the Used Oil Analysis section state that based on the oil analysis numbers from the 4.7 engine they feel it is a 500K mile engine. Everyone that reads the UOA on the 4.7 thinks it is one of the best engines made.
