Delta VS humbly requests input/measurements for Panhard Bracket

[Delta VS]

Howdy folks!

Quick intro for those of you not familiar with Delta Vehicle Systems. We have been making/developing products for 80 Series for a little bit now and are getting ready to start some 100 Series offerings in the very near future.

Our Panhard Lift Bracket has been quite a hit with the 80 Series folks (you can read all about it and why it's helpful here: Delta Vehicle Systems Panhard Lift Bracket, 3" & 5") and we've had plenty of requests for something similar from 100 Series owners. We have prototyped a couple different versions, both of which can be seen here:

With both of these on the vehicle, have a few questions for y'all:

1. Situation:

The panhard LIFT bracket (80 series style, mounted to axle/driver side) would REQUIRE bump stop extensions, leading directly to the loss of up-travel. This is because the 100 Series does NOT have the same amount of clearance between the panhard mount point and crossmember as an 80 Series. The one in above pic has about 2.5" of lift for the panhard since that seems pretty typical for a 100 from what we have been able to find (certainly welcome input from anybody on that). So, 2-2.5" bump stop extensions would be required to avoid smashing the bracket into the crossmember above (right behind the drive rear spring basically).​

Question A: Is that an acceptable trade off for you? In our mind it is not an acceptable trade off (improved handling in exchange for loss of suspension travel)​

2. Situation:

The panhard DROP bracket (mount to chassis/passenger side) in it's current form has the slightest bit of interference with some of the stock stuff. BUT, this rig has adjustable lower control arms that may have lengthened the wheelbase (the wheel absolutely looks offset to the rear of the vehicle based on the wheel well).​

Question B: would a handful of you 100 Series owners be willing to measure wheelbase from center to center of your (stock lower link) 100s? Pretty please...​

Anyway, as you may have noticed, one of the advantages of the drop bracket is it can be built so the drop distance for various lifts can be accommodated by one bracket, unlike the 80 Series (we have to make 2 different brackets for that application). That way if you go bigger on your lift, you simply drop down a notch on the bracket instead of buying a new bracket.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

Thanks,
Dave

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

Dave,

Stock 100 RCLAs are 27.25" C/L of eyes.

I've seen measurements come back from 27.25"-27.75" on the adjustables RLCAs I sell for 2-3" lifts (regardless of suspension make)

Jason

 

[hoser]

My preference would be for the panhard lift bracket (raise axle side) for better handling characteristics (raise roll center). I'm okay with extending the bumpstops up to a maximum of 2"

 

[Delta VS]

My preference would be for the panhard lift bracket (raise axle side) for better handling characteristics (raise roll center). I'm okay with extending the bumpstops up to a maximum of 2"

Good to know. How much lift do you have, out of curiosity? What springs, etc.

 

[Delta VS]

Dave,

Stock 100 RCLAs are 27.25" C/L of eyes.

I've seen measurements come back from 27.25"-27.75" on the adjustables RLCAs I sell for 2-3" lifts (regardless of suspension make)

Jason

Thank you very much, good info. What lift height do you sell the most of, if you don't mind sharing (pm maybe?)?

 

[hoser]

Good to know. How much lift do you have, out of curiosity? What springs, etc.

I'm running approximately 2.5" of lift (modded AHC lift) with 2" bumpstop extensions already.

 

[MTKID]

Not sure which route I would go at this point... I have 7.25" of difference unloaded and about 6.25" lightly loaded between the two Panhard bolts. I would expect another 1" drop with the RTT and loaded for camping. These are Tough Dog TDC949/3F coils. These might be taller than most on a 100, at my request to Jason.

1. I'm not opposed to eventually cutting into the crossmember and boxing in around where there is interference. Also not opposed to drop my bumpstops, but only as much as my next tire size requires it and I'm pretty sure it will require at least an inch but possibly the exact amount your bracket would need. I also have Timbren bumpstops and I think they make contact before the stock bumps but compress to a similar spot as stock would.

2. Happy with this option too if it accomplishes everything without needing additional fabrication to eliminate interference.

Sorry if this isn't definitive, but I'll work with whatever you provide at this point. My fabricator was happy to dive into this too if my lift is beyond what you think anyone else needs a bracket for.

 

[abuck99]

So if I inderstand correctly- the purpose of the relo-bracket is to reposition the stock panhard so that the axle is re-centered after installing taller springs. Right?

So your product would be an alternative to an adjustable panhard?

 

[MTKID]

So if I inderstand correctly- the purpose of the relo-bracket is to reposition the stock panhard so that the axle is re-centered after installing taller springs. Right?

So your product would be an alternative to an adjustable panhard?

Not only an alternative. If you can picture the swing of the panhard bar when it is level, it keeps the axle centered (mostly), but when it cycles or swings from a steeper angle it is moving the axle side to side more drastically. This bracket eliminates this issue if it matches the lift you have. Some will use both the bracket and adjustable bar. The 80 series section about this product discusses it a bit too (link in first post).

Ideally, you want your panhard bar closer to level, or at least as level as it may have been with stock height suspension, as Toyota designed it.

 

[abuck99]

Thank you for the added explanation

 

[MTKID]

What’s happening here @Delta VS ?

 

[Delta VS]

What’s happening here @Delta VS ?

Sorry about not responding sooner! For some reason didn't get any notifications of any of these posts after #6. The drop bracket is definitely what we are leaning towards at this point. The lift bracket basically needs the bumpstops to be extended by exactly the same amount as the panhard goes up (so 4" PLB would require 4" bump stop extensions, NOT ideal...) while the drop bracket doesn't require anything like that.

To your comment about notching the frame, it would need a pretty sizable notch to be effective/clear everything.

 

[MTKID]

How much of a difference is the raised roll center?

Could a combination of the two types of brackets also make sense?

What is the minimum amount of lift the PLB could provide?

 

[Delta VS]

Can't really comment on the roll center question as there is a LOT more to that than just the panhard (Roll center - Wikipedia). We have never made this claim about the PLB, it's just something other folks have talked about.

I would say it would not make from a cost perspective, doubling the time and material is going double the cost, no surprise there, which I think would put it out of reach for most people.

The PLB in post #1 is 2.5", that is about minimum. And requires 2"+ extensions unless you have massive springs like in that same photo, in which case a 2" PLB doesn't really do enough good. The drop bracket in that same photo has 3.5 and 4.5 positions.

 

[MTKID]

What would the minimum amount you could drop the PDB? Can you get as little as 2.5” drop from that side, if you determined that’s the most common lift height for the 100’s? Then maybe the 3.5” would be close enough to help mine.

 

[Delta VS]

What would the minimum amount you could drop the PDB? Can you get as little as 2.5” drop from that side, if you determined that’s the most common lift height for the 100’s? Then maybe the 3.5” would be close enough to help mine.

3" is the minimum it can drop on the chassis side. 1" increments from there.

 

[MTKID]

3" is the minimum it can drop on the chassis side. 1" increments from there.

By my bolt to bolt measurements is that close to a 4” lift? If so, that 3” & 4” might work perfect.

 

[Delta VS]

By my bolt to bolt measurements is that close to a 4” lift? If so, that 3” & 4” might work perfect.

That's what the one in first post is.

 

[MTKID]

How’s this going?

 

[Delta VS]

How’s this going?

Excellent timing! The first production one was installed by tester yesterday, waiting to talk with them on the phone for feedback. This was on a stock-ish rig, have one more to send out to a non-stock rig, and have a bunch of parts incoming to manufacture with, along with having ordered a batch of hardware. So to answer your question, would say it’s going well! Once hear back from tester, will follow up with details.