Whats your castor set at .On my Rubicon it would get death wobble until I rotated the axle back with adjustable upper arms.now of course the Toyota doesn't have that , but there are ways to increase the castor other then just the offset bushings. castor plates and or the offset trunion bearings.Not saying its what causing it but I would thing you would want to check its setting. good luck I hatted the jeep when it started doing it .It also had a 4" lift.
Death wobbles... Steering box with excess be a cause?
- Thread starter Scottbonnar
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Alright, let's break down what the consensus shows:
1.) check and re-check your tie Rod ends, not that the fasteners are loose, but check that there is no slop in the joint itself.
2.) you have 4" lift. Your castor probably isn't correct. Seriously, getting the front alignment checked is not only fairly cheap, but it eliminates this as an issue.
3.) wheel bearing adjustment. Torque wrenches are cheap, it doesn't require a nice torque wrench, just a cheap HF will do. Wheel bearing preload and proper installation can be the difference between smooth sailing and "Oh Sh*t my tire is passing me!/ lots of broken stuff.
Take the time to check everything closely, I understand not having access to a lift or a nice dry/ warm space to do my work in, but if your rig doesn't feel safe....it most likely isn't to some extent,and you should do whatever you have to to make it safe. A floor Jack and some stands is all you need to check out your front end.
Chock the rear, Jack it up and put it on stands. Sit down in front of each tire and grab each side and wiggle it, top to bottom, bottom to top side to side. look for looseness or funky noise. Pull hard back and forth and up and down and whatever direction you can think of on the tie Rod and drag link on both ends. Make sure your Panhard bar is tight and the bushings aren't shot. Check your control arm for torn bushings and tight bolts.
If all of this has been done and still not fixed. Check the frame where the Panhard support is to make sure it hasn't cracked free of the frame and then check for cracks around the steering box, and if not yet fixed. Swap out the box. And if it still isn't fixed! You missed something somewhere and you'll feel like a chromosomal retard for not having really checked in the first place.
Good luck to you sir
1.) check and re-check your tie Rod ends, not that the fasteners are loose, but check that there is no slop in the joint itself.
2.) you have 4" lift. Your castor probably isn't correct. Seriously, getting the front alignment checked is not only fairly cheap, but it eliminates this as an issue.
3.) wheel bearing adjustment. Torque wrenches are cheap, it doesn't require a nice torque wrench, just a cheap HF will do. Wheel bearing preload and proper installation can be the difference between smooth sailing and "Oh Sh*t my tire is passing me!/ lots of broken stuff.
Take the time to check everything closely, I understand not having access to a lift or a nice dry/ warm space to do my work in, but if your rig doesn't feel safe....it most likely isn't to some extent,and you should do whatever you have to to make it safe. A floor Jack and some stands is all you need to check out your front end.
Chock the rear, Jack it up and put it on stands. Sit down in front of each tire and grab each side and wiggle it, top to bottom, bottom to top side to side. look for looseness or funky noise. Pull hard back and forth and up and down and whatever direction you can think of on the tie Rod and drag link on both ends. Make sure your Panhard bar is tight and the bushings aren't shot. Check your control arm for torn bushings and tight bolts.
If all of this has been done and still not fixed. Check the frame where the Panhard support is to make sure it hasn't cracked free of the frame and then check for cracks around the steering box, and if not yet fixed. Swap out the box. And if it still isn't fixed! You missed something somewhere and you'll feel like a chromosomal retard for not having really checked in the first place.
Good luck to you sir
- Thread starter
- #23
Replacing parts won't help if they are not the source of the slop. If need be, pay someone to put it up on a lift and find out what is causing the slop that wobbles. Look for frame cracks and cracks on the mounts for the radius arms and panhard. Check anything else that locates the wheel, like steering arms, rods, box, knuckle bearings wheel bearings, lug nuts.
Many things also contribute to how frequently it oscillates and how hard it wobbles. Caster angle is important because at zero caster, there is no self centering force to make the wheel want to go straight on its own. Bent rims or tire ballance can influence when it starts to wobble. The steering dampener can influence how hard it wobbles and the frequency. Even though all these things are influencing factors, you have to have some slop somewhere to allow the side to side motion.
Many things also contribute to how frequently it oscillates and how hard it wobbles. Caster angle is important because at zero caster, there is no self centering force to make the wheel want to go straight on its own. Bent rims or tire ballance can influence when it starts to wobble. The steering dampener can influence how hard it wobbles and the frequency. Even though all these things are influencing factors, you have to have some slop somewhere to allow the side to side motion.
- Thread starter
- #25
Abit of an update to the death wobbles.
Bit the bullet and bought 4" radius arms to suit the lift, drove better but still was getting the wobbles.
Bought new rims -22 and didn't make much difference at all
tightened the steering box and removed most of the play. Huge difference but still didn't remove the wobbles
replaced firewall seal on the steering column
went and got a wheel alignment today. Castor is good but my tyres were way out of whack since getting the new rims fitted.
yet to go on a big drive but fingers crossed that the issue has been resolved.
Bit the bullet and bought 4" radius arms to suit the lift, drove better but still was getting the wobbles.
Bought new rims -22 and didn't make much difference at all
tightened the steering box and removed most of the play. Huge difference but still didn't remove the wobbles
replaced firewall seal on the steering column
went and got a wheel alignment today. Castor is good but my tyres were way out of whack since getting the new rims fitted.
yet to go on a big drive but fingers crossed that the issue has been resolved.
surfpig
The Anti-Tech
- Thread starter
- #28
Process of elimination. Some people don't have the luxury of getting it up on a hoist to look at it and do nothing
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Lol
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
Insufficient preload on the upper and lower trunnions are IME the biggest single cause of the 'Death wobble'. Check it carefully with a spring gauge. The death wobble needs something to 'set it off', the wheel bearings would have to be very loose to start it off, so loose that you would have virtually no brake pedal after driving about 10 feet. An out of round tyre rarely is the cause as this gets noticed in other ways (noise/vibration). Even the steering damper has been blamed but again IME the damper will not stop the real thing, it may help but the damper is applied to the steering and not the suspension. A death wobble caused by worn or loose top and bottom swivels is not going to be helped by changing the damper, the affect s simply to strong to damp down.
As an sides and not aimed at anyone in particular, I have noticed that the 'Death wobble' gets announced for a simple vibration caused by an out of balance tyre or wheel, the genuine death wobble is not something that happens every time you hit 60 MPH, or a small shudder under braking. The real thing normally happens when on a curve and set off by a simple bump, the loading on the suspension being shuffled from side to side, or braking quite heavy i.e. when the suspension components are loaded up, this will throw the vehicle about quite violently and to the uninitiated can be quite scary, for future posters spend some time to make sure you have the real thing.
regards
Dave
As an sides and not aimed at anyone in particular, I have noticed that the 'Death wobble' gets announced for a simple vibration caused by an out of balance tyre or wheel, the genuine death wobble is not something that happens every time you hit 60 MPH, or a small shudder under braking. The real thing normally happens when on a curve and set off by a simple bump, the loading on the suspension being shuffled from side to side, or braking quite heavy i.e. when the suspension components are loaded up, this will throw the vehicle about quite violently and to the uninitiated can be quite scary, for future posters spend some time to make sure you have the real thing.
regards
Dave
- Thread starter
- #31
Well there back and I'm surprised the piece didn't fall apart after today's death wobbles. Got worse after putting new wheel bearings in driver hub over the weekend, but i don't see wheel bearings being the cause at all?
Now its either:
Springs
steering box
chassis cracked (i can see cracks but not sure if they are big enough to cause this)
panhard bushes
preload on kingpin bearings
im going to do panhard bushes and see how that turns out. Everything feels tight but this wobble occurs when im cornering and at a speed of 60-70 kmph. Im stumped
Now its either:
Springs
steering box
chassis cracked (i can see cracks but not sure if they are big enough to cause this)
panhard bushes
preload on kingpin bearings
im going to do panhard bushes and see how that turns out. Everything feels tight but this wobble occurs when im cornering and at a speed of 60-70 kmph. Im stumped
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
Steering box can be adjusted in about 10 mins.
You have cracks! Get them sorted asap before something gets pulled out.
Preload on king pins is the most common cause IME as per my last post, when cornering.
regards
Dave
You have cracks! Get them sorted asap before something gets pulled out.
Preload on king pins is the most common cause IME as per my last post, when cornering.
regards
Dave
Lots of things cause DW. Too many to say that one is more likely than another.
Paying someone $100 to put it up on a lift and find out what is sloppy is a luxury? Compared to what? Paying $2,000 replacing parts at random and not fixing the problem.
Since it wobbles regularly, put a GoPro on it to video tape the action and you will see what is moving that should not be. I guess that a GoPro is a luxury too.
Paying someone $100 to put it up on a lift and find out what is sloppy is a luxury? Compared to what? Paying $2,000 replacing parts at random and not fixing the problem.
Since it wobbles regularly, put a GoPro on it to video tape the action and you will see what is moving that should not be. I guess that a GoPro is a luxury too.
Dave 2000
Not all Land Rovers are useless!
Lots of things cause DW. Too many to say that one is more likely than another.
Paying someone $100 to put it up on a lift and find out what is sloppy is a luxury? Compared to what? Paying $2,000 replacing parts at random and not fixing the problem.
IME the swivels with low or no pre load are the first on the list, (even the little Suzuki's suffer here first), then comes TRE's (set off by poor wheel balance),and then panhard rod bushes or the mounts where they crack or corrode, wheel bearings can cause it but IME they tend to screw with your brakes first, damper rarely is to blame, others may have different experiences.
I certainly agree with getting it on a lift and getting someone who knows what they are looking for under there.
regards
Dave
Check for cracks at the steering box. Takes only 2 minutes. Best with 2 persons. Someone turning steering wheel, other one whatching carefully if the steering box moves or not. Also do a visual inspection. But sometimes cracks are difficult to see with everything in place...
Certainly with a small crack in the beginning. It won't stay small...
My old frame:
Reinforced second hand frame that wasn't cracked:
Just welding the cracks is NOT sufficient enough!
Nice and shiny:
Certainly with a small crack in the beginning. It won't stay small...
My old frame:
Reinforced second hand frame that wasn't cracked:
Just welding the cracks is NOT sufficient enough!
Nice and shiny:
Mdej3
SILVER Star
My 80 pulls one way when i take the foot out of the gas (driver side): what this could be?
- Thread starter
- #37
ill upload my castor read out when i get a chance.
Whats the preload on the kingpin bearings?
and what reading should they be on the fish scale, ill do that this weekend. Its only 2 bolts to remove to shimm it
Whats the preload on the kingpin bearings?
and what reading should they be on the fish scale, ill do that this weekend. Its only 2 bolts to remove to shimm it
I would urge you to check the steering arm studs/nuts for proper torque if you haven't done that yet.
Don't bother with the fish scale. Low preload isn't going to cause DW. You need some real play, slop or wear. Just jack up the wheel and jerk it at the 6 and 12 o'clock positions to check for play in the knuckle bearings. Jerk it at 3 and 9 to check the tie rod ends and steering box. Slop at both positions would indicate loose wheel bearings.
Mine does the same thing. ???
