Death wobble

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Joined
Jun 28, 2008
Threads
29
Messages
235
Location
Coquitlam BC
Hey guys,

I've got a HZ73 2" bodylift, 4" susp (oversized shackles/springs)
I recently started having problems with the front end D/S.

(This is my daily driver / family wagon / weekend wheeler)

Here's what happens

:steer:Driving down the road, 60 kph, hit a bump, the whole front end shakes like hell (SEVERE understatement), steeringwheel rips out of my hand, gear down and almost go off the road.

I now understand why it is called death wobble.

YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR GOING TO :censor: DIE!!!

NOT FUN!!

Any ideas where to start troubleshooting??

Any input would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
 
You need the castor adjusted and possibly some other things like tie rods
I had a simiar experience a while back
 
Check everything: shocks, tie rod ends, drag link ends, pitman arm, steering arms, steering box, steeting stabilizer.

You can check your toe-in alignment with a tape measure.

You can check your caster alignment with an angle finder on a level garage floor.
 
A friend of mine has the same type of cruiser, with all of the above mods to it.
Went thru all of the checks on wheel alignment machines etc, everthing was OK, found that the problem was an alloy wheel that was slightly bent on the inside
Changed the rim , problem fixed.
 
Yeah, I'm going to need some pictures before I know what you should do :P

I want to see :)
 
It's already been mentioned but it's worth remphasizeing....recheck your alignment, toe in AND caster. Hitting a bump at 60kph can cause some serious alignment issues.

Also switch your tires front to back & see if that changes anything.

JEM
 
Hi,
l had a HZJ77 last year with 2.5" suspension lift and longer shackles,did the same thing,hit a bump and the steeringwheel shackout of my hands,new steering stabilizer solved the problem.my current HZJ77 came with stock suspension and tires,after l added ZEAL 3" lift and 33x12.50 tires,did the same thig,hit a bump and the steering wheel shack,replaced the stabilizer solved the shack.
Just came back from a camping trip,6 hours drive total on Vegie oil,only use $5 worth of diesel.
Simon
Winnipeg
92 HZJ77 3" lift running on grease
ARB RTT,awning,towing a M101.
89 BJ74
92 HDJ81
 
i will lay money on the steering stabilizer...
death wobble, scary s*** eh?

i have seen this caused by loose wheel bearings, worn king pin bearings, (usually) worn out steering stabilizer (or s***ty aftermarket replacement with kits), loose wheel nuts (ouch, dumb fawker), i have yet to see worn tie rods causing this, toe in i highly doubt, caster 'might' cause this but wandering is usually a strong sign of piss poor caster...

start cheap and work up.

take the steering stabilizer off and compress and extend by hand...got a dead spot? there is your problem. i do this no matter how old the stabizer is... even brand new they can be s*** after a month...
 
If you have ridiculously extended shackles that are basically vertical, that will cause a lot of problems. I had the same problem, went through everything that was listed, then realized that my caster angle was completely screwed due to the shackles. If your shackles are vertical then I would say just ditch them completely, if you can not do that them you need to put in some shims to correct your caster angle.

Honestly though, over sized shackles are worthless, you get no flex out of them and you get a horrible ride.

my 2 cents.

-Matt
 
disagree completely... i have been running 3" over length for decades on most of my land cruisers. design and proper caster shims are a must.
common sense must come into play... i have seen s*** shackles that i wouldn't even sit in the truck and i have seen some kicking over built units that would out last the rest of the truck.
as for verticle...i want you to think about what you are saying. the verticle will flex EASILY and allow the springs to flatten right out. if the shackles are too short then they stop the compression when hitting the frame AND if they do not have the anti-inversion built into them then they can pop under and damage the spring, give you a real harsh ride (i.e. your suspension becomes your tires).
but <see sig line>

Honestly though, over sized shackles are worthless, you get no flex out of them and you get a horrible ride.

my 2 cents.

-Matt
 
Hey guys,

Thanks for all the input. :cheers:

FYI- Just a reminder... 4x4s and Landcruisers are all new to me...
There is soooo much to learn.

I tightenened up the U-Bolts and shackle bolts. They seemed to be loose. Instant improvement:) What should the U-Bolts be torqued to? ft-lbs shackle bolts?

I'll still go in for an alignment etc... I'll pull the stabalizer out this week and check it.

I notice that when I'm braking there's movement in the steering wheel (left-right-left-right) The intensity increases in sinc with how hard I brake. Especially while going downhill) It seems like it is coming from the drivers side. (Its a RHD) Do you think this is related to the death wobble? Same sort of feeling in the steering wheel but not nearly as intense..

Thanks again :)

Here are some pics
Picture 004.webp
 
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Looks like you need to get your front brake rotor disc's machined , or replaced with new ones. To much runout , I think there is only 1 mm that can be machined off.
 
Do you think this is related to the death wobble? Same sort of feeling in the steering wheel but not nearly as intense..

.

Yes ,mine was accentuated by a bad rim which would be much the same.
The shop said this is quite common. Removed the rim and addedsome castor shims and all was well.
 
Hey guys,

Thanks for all the input. :cheers:

FYI- Just a reminder... 4x4s and Landcruisers are all new to me...
There is soooo much to learn.

I tightenened up the U-Bolts and shackle bolts. They seemed to be loose. Instant improvement:) What should the U-Bolts be torqued to? ft-lbs shackle bolts?

I'll still go in for an alignment etc... I'll pull the stabalizer out this week and check it.

I notice that when I'm braking there's movement in the steering wheel (left-right-left-right) The intensity increases in sinc with how hard I brake. Especially while going downhill) It seems like it is coming from the drivers side. (Its a RHD) Do you think this is related to the death wobble? Same sort of feeling in the steering wheel but not nearly as intense..

Thanks again :)

For those who wanted to see pics... Here they are.

When you're braking, and you get a slight turn of the steering wheel to one side, that is called "bump steer" and it is from poor steering rod angles. The plane the drag link is operating in is too far from parallel to the tie rod. This is common in lifted trucks and is often corrected for by using a longer pitman arm - but these don't typically exist for Land Cruisers.

As far as your death wobble goes - a steering stabilizer only "band aids" a much larger problem. If the steering stabilizer is worn out, it will allow the steering feedback to be more of a problem. The best location for a steering stabilizer is in-line with the tie rod, and not the drag link as it appears on most vehicles.

I have removed the steering stabilizer from some of the my trail trucks with not noticeable steering problems - but I generally keep things well maintained since I have a well equipped shop at my disposal.

If you have 4" of lift - and I am assuming you mean combined lift (tires, springs, shackles and tires) - then you probably have about 2.5" over original factory height. In any situation where a lift spring is used and a longer shackle has been installed, you will need to correct your caster angle. Adding a few degrees over the stock factory angle is a good idea. Have it measured at an alignment place and then correct it to around 2.5 to 4 degrees.

In my experience, which is fairly extensive, other common causes of death wobble can be related to: the need for a knuckle service (including new king pin bearings and adjusting the wheel bearings), a defective tire(s), a defective rim(s), loose front end bolts/u-bolts/fasteners, mal-adjusted tie rod ends, poorly adjusted wheel bearings, worn out bushings.... and the list goes on.

Start with tightening bolts, shackles, u-bolts, tie rod ends (to factory spec), and checking your wheel bearings and king pin bearings. You can also try rotating your front tires to the rear and the rears to the front.

In my old FJ45 (SOA, 36s, 350 4 wheel discs etc...) it was a one-finger on the steering wheel at 120 kph kind of ride until I put on a cheap set of tires and rims of unknown origin - after that - anything above 30 kph was frightening and 40 kph was uncontrollable (turned around, went home, and binned the offending parts).


hth, John
 
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well of course Toyota "band aids" all there solid front axles from new... what was i thinking?
 

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