Dealer vs. ‘Mom and Pop’ Shops

[Thornwell]

Hey all—

New LC owner here! Thanks for the advice over the last couple of weeks. I wound up purchasing a truck from @cruiserjunktion. 2013 | 1 owner | Florida | 91k miles | good service records. I really wanted a 2016+ but this seemed like a great truck at a fair price.

Now that I’ve got it in my garage, Im wondering about maintenance and general mechanic work. I would be interested to hear MUD thoughts on using Toyota dealers vs. independent shops for your maintenance and various mechanical needs.

For the sake of conversation, let’s assume that the independent shop is reputable. Im not really talking about taking my LC to BillyBob in the woods (no offense to all the BillyBobs out there who live in the woods).

I find myself questioning if the expense of going to the dealer is worth it or not. Seems as though I can’t walk in there to even use the bathroom without paying a $99 fee for something (toilet paper?).

 

[TimCFJ40]

These trucks aren't really rocket science to work on. Most of the maintenance is similar to if not identical to the Tundra. Also, most dealer mechanics see so few LCs that they're not exactly experts either.

If you have a reputable, trusted shop, I would have no qualms using them instead of the dealer. I also wouldn't just assume that the dealer mechanics are somehow "better" than those and an independent shop, they may even be worse. There are lots of stories out there of Dealer mechanics just firing the parts cannon at problems they don't really understand, costing owners hundreds or thousands of extra dollars.

Finally, it always pays to be somewhat knowledgeable on what service you're asking for. This can help sus out whether you're being cheated whether by the dealer or an independent.

 

[KLF]

There's no clear answer here. It totally depends on the dealer and the indy shop. Some are good, some not. Find one you trust, go with it.

 

[gasman4u]

Hey all—

New LC owner here! Thanks for the advice over the last couple of weeks. I wound up purchasing a truck from @cruiserjunktion. 2013 | 1 owner | Florida | 91k miles | good service records. I really wanted a 2016+ but this seemed like a great truck at a fair price.

Now that I’ve got it in my garage, Im wondering about maintenance and general mechanic work. I would be interested to hear MUD thoughts on using Toyota dealers vs. independent shops for your maintenance and various mechanical needs.

For the sake of conversation, let’s assume that the independent shop is reputable. Im not really talking about taking my LC to BillyBob in the woods (no offense to all the BillyBobs out there who live in the woods).

I find myself questioning if the expense of going to the dealer is worth it or not. Seems as though I can’t walk in there to even use the bathroom without paying a $99 fee for something (toilet paper?).

View attachment 3842333

Good looking rig. Welcome!

Try posting in the TN forum and see what people have to say about shops in your area of the state. I know I got a lot of rec's that way for my rig when I was trying to sort out an issue and the drive was worth it. You likely won't have to drive like I did for routine stuff, but having a good shop you trust is worthwhile for sure. If it's a dealer, cool. If it's an indy, awesome. All dealers aren't Ed Martin and all indy's aren't reputable.

 

[bloc]

Most of the broken recirculate doors were caused by dealers. Just as an example of their level of attention to detail.

Assuming you find an indy you can actually trust, I’d have zero issues using them.

 

[ryanCA]

I really wanted a 2016+

Since you didn't get to buy the best 200 series which you rightfully wanted, you can take yours anywhere - it will be fine. They are maintained by people all over Asia and Africa with a screwdriver and a wrench. N. Americans overmaintain them...

THIS is the best 200 series mechanic in USA - you should go there , especially since you didn't buy a 16+

The Car Care Nut

Thank you for watching my Channel! My name is AMD also known as The Car Care Nut. I am a Master Automotive Technician specializing in Toyota,Lexus and Scion vehicles currently working in the automotive Industry in my own Independent Toyota, Lexus and Scion speciality repair shop ( TCCN...

www.youtube.com

 

[ryanCA]

These trucks aren't really rocket science to work on. Most of the maintenance is similar to if not identical to the Tundra. Also, most dealer mechanics see so few LCs that they're not exactly experts either.

If you have a reputable, trusted shop, I would have no qualms using them instead of the dealer. I also wouldn't just assume that the dealer mechanics are somehow "better" than those and an independent shop, they may even be worse. There are lots of stories out there of Dealer mechanics just firing the parts cannon at problems they don't really understand, costing owners hundreds or thousands of extra dollars.

Finally, it always pays to be somewhat knowledgeable on what service you're asking for. This can help sus out whether you're being cheated whether by the dealer or an independent.

Agreed.

Dealers are relied on by the big baller 300 series owners on instaling brand new motors in those junk trucks, but they can't seem to do coolant valley leaks or simple air filter in cabin changes without breaking them.. on 200

its funny on seller listings.. they always say "amazing truck, woman owned, dealer maintained every 5k"

Whether dealers are good or bad depends on what part of the forum you go to.. pretty funny.

 

[2021 LC200]

I own a 2021 LC200 with currently 39k miles on it. Toyota Joe Myers in Houston did the maintenance (5k oil changes) during the 3 year warranty period.

In general quick in and out of the dealer, which is nice. However…they have the junior crew doing oil changes and they work quick to allow for more profit which is the main and short term focus by these places (beside carrying a massive overhead), which turns out to be a bad thing...

Two negative experiences:
- At 29k miles change they spilled a bunch of oil on the under engine cover which subsequently leaked on my garage floor. I wondered whether the drain plug had a leak so went under it to remove the (factory) cover and found a mess on the same. Lots of standing oil and mixed with regular road debris/sand. Degreaser and various shop paper towels later it was back to clean and new looking. Oil drain plug not leaking. All back to good, just annoying. The dealer guys must have drained the oil without removing the under engine cover and spilled a bunch on top of the same. Sloppy work.
- At 34k miles change I did it myself using OEM filter (bought 6 at the dealer to ensure OEM) and Pennzoil UP 5W30. I noticed the oil drain plug threads are damaged. Managed to reinstall for the DIY oil change with new drain plug gasket and hand tight to decent torque. Pisses me off though they managed to damage this by basically not taking enough care. Plan forward is to change one time to a Valvomax and then not undo anymore for a while. Hope this works or I will have to scramble to get an oil pan and fix the whole lot. DAMN DEALER MONKEYS.

My view:
- Preferable do it yourself, assuming you have some mechanical incline and the space and use youtube and internet to educate yourself of the does and do nots before you commence. I am capable of doing almost everything (short of taking the entire engine out of the vehicle, although never say never ) so oil changes and diffs, transfer case, lubing drive shafts, replacing brake pads and pads +rotors, replacing brake fluid, coolant, transmission oil etc are definitely in scope.
- Or go to a good independent and ask him to take care to not damage things. Consider paying him a tip and create a relationship which is mutual beneficial. This may make it equal or slightly more expensive than a Toyota dealer, however it allows you to build this relation for when a bigger job is required. Recommending this path as the dealers have many low qualified and low motivated mechanics and do not know how to work on a Land Cruiser. The small self owned independent has a reputation to keep up. Also the number and complexity of the onboard ECU/control units is on the simple side in a 200 series compared to latest generation vehicles and for example my 2014 BMW 535d (although ISTA+ makes it easy to access and work on as well, I am an engineer so I do not mind a bit more complexity). This makes it for an independent relative easy to work on a 200 series.

 

[2021 LC200]

Since you didn't get to buy the best 200 series which you rightfully wanted, you can take yours anywhere - it will be fine. They are maintained by people all over Asia and Africa with a screwdriver and a wrench. N. Americans overmaintain them...

THIS is the best 200 series mechanic in USA - you should go there , especially since you didn't buy a 16+

The Car Care Nut

Thank you for watching my Channel! My name is AMD also known as The Car Care Nut. I am a Master Automotive Technician specializing in Toyota,Lexus and Scion vehicles currently working in the automotive Industry in my own Independent Toyota, Lexus and Scion speciality repair shop ( TCCN...

www.youtube.com

Seems CCN only for major jobs unless you enjoy driving for each oil change to Chicago and back...

 

[Sandroad]

Congrats on the purchase. Whether you go with dealer or Indy, don’t hesitate to use the expertise on here if you have repair or maintenance questions. Not everyone on here knows everything about the 200, but there will be someone who can help anything.

I do my own work, so I have no experience with Indy shops. I bought my LC new and almost every trip to 3 different dealers near me that did the 2 year free maintenance caused me some kind of grief, and I’m a very easy going person.

Here’s a relevant thread. Just saying……

Dealer Disappointment (mini-rant on maintenance)

My 2008 hit 130k so took it in for scheduled maintenance. tl;dr, dealer didn't seem to want to do it! Closest dealer was previously proven incompetent - unable to diagnose a problem with parking brake grinding (shoe spring retainer "washer" broken) that iH8Mud diagnosed in 5 minutes. Next...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Thornwell]

Thanks for all the replies!

I did not notice the region-specific forums… I’ll reach out there too.

 

[Markuson]

Since you didn't get to buy the best 200 series which you rightfully wanted, you can take yours anywhere - it will be fine. They are maintained by people all over Asia and Africa with a screwdriver and a wrench. N. Americans overmaintain them...

THIS is the best 200 series mechanic in USA - you should go there , especially since you didn't buy a 16+

The Car Care Nut

Thank you for watching my Channel! My name is AMD also known as The Car Care Nut. I am a Master Automotive Technician specializing in Toyota,Lexus and Scion vehicles currently working in the automotive Industry in my own Independent Toyota, Lexus and Scion speciality repair shop ( TCCN...

www.youtube.com

When’s the last time you had a 12 year old Cruiser serviced?

 

[TheIcemanCometh]

I have quit using my local dealer for quick lubes. Too many careless issues. The last time I was at the dealer for a part I talked to the quick lube manager and let him of the repeat issues and that I could not recommend people use them.

As for dealer vs indy shop. I have been using an indy shop for our German buggy since the initial period ended. They do good work and the shop rates are less. I just used an indy shop for the 60K service on my Tacoma. That worked out well. So others have said ask around. When I took my Tacoma into the indy shop I chatted with them on the phone a bit and was up front was trying them for the first time. So they knew it was a test for both of us.

 

[stonepa]

Most of the broken recirculate doors were caused by dealers. Just as an example of their level of attention to detail.

Assuming you find an indy you can actually trust, I’d have zero issues using them.

Probably because new Land Cruisers were serviced by dealers. They are no better or worse.

 

[AZLX570]

I've found that in the case of my LX570 the Lexus dealer tends to do quality work (with great service). They usually have techs that are pretty knowledgable about the platform and often times enthusiasts themselves. However, I wouldn't use the dealer for anything other than warranty work/fluids as the prices can get astronomically high. This is my experience with multiple Lexus dealers (Phoenix/Dallas/Missouri). I WOULD hesitate to take my LX to a Toyota dealer as I just don't think they're up to par service wise and in my opinion, "minor league" version of Lexus.

Independent shops I have always sticked to advice I've gotten here or done extensive research on my own. This has led to quality work overall even though sometimes the shops I pick can be as expensive as the dealer. Note that every shop I've picked have basically been Land Cruiser specialists. I've been lucky to find a great guy here in my current area (MO).

 

[eatSleepWoof]

First and foremost, I care about trusting the person working on the vehicle. It's okay if they don't know something, so long as I can trust them to communicate that to me and not make things worse. I have never been able to get that level of trust from a dealership/service manager.

I use a reputable, local indy for 99% of the work. I can talk to the actual mechanics working on my vehicle and discuss what I want done, what they've found, etc.

I'll take it to the dealer if it needs something dealer-specific, like Techstream (assuming I can't do it through my own copy of Techstream).

 

[ryanCA]

I've found that in the case of my LX570 the Lexus dealer tends to do quality work (with great service). They usually have techs that are pretty knowledgable about the platform and often times enthusiasts themselves. However, I wouldn't use the dealer for anything other than warranty work/fluids as the prices can get astronomically high. This is my experience with multiple Lexus dealers (Phoenix/Dallas/Missouri). I WOULD hesitate to take my LX to a Toyota dealer as I just don't think they're up to par service wise and in my opinion, "minor league" version of Lexus.

Independent shops I have always sticked to advice I've gotten here or done extensive research on my own. This has led to quality work overall even though sometimes the shops I pick can be as expensive as the dealer. Note that every shop I've picked have basically been Land Cruiser specialists. I've been lucky to find a great guy here in my current area (MO).

you are right

lexus dealer and techs are better

toyota dealers and techs are worse

everyone should buy LX

 

[rexington14]

For a 12+ year old vehicle whether it's a Land Cruiser or a Corolla the dealership service department is not an economical choice.

Find a shop that sees a lot of Toyota / Lexus. Look for one where the shop owner works the service desk. Try them out with single, smaller jobs first and see how it goes.

 

[AZLX570]

you are right

lexus dealer and techs are better

toyota dealers and techs are worse

everyone should buy LX

My (probably narrow minded) thinking is that the average Lexus dealer has more on the line as far as reputation/money/customer loyalty than a Toyota dealership which can just absorb any negative feedback/work on sheer volume alone. That is part of their reasoning of Lexus charging so much. Not to mention their customer base is skews older and perhaps has more time in some cases to ensure things are done right.

Not saying Toyota techs are bad at all. But I know to take your posts with a grain of salt.

 

[HighRanch]

My (probably narrow minded) thinking is that the average Lexus dealer has more on the line as far as reputation/money/customer loyalty than a Toyota dealership which can just absorb any negative feedback/work on sheer volume alone. That is part of their reasoning of Lexus charging so much. Not to mention their customer base is skews older and perhaps has more time in some cases to ensure things are done right.

Not saying Toyota techs are bad at all. But I know to take your posts with a grain of salt.

Agree, I really believe the talent and expertise depends on the dealer and can be very regional. I would not take my Toyota 4X4 to a dealer in AZ for any major work...but trust the dealers in CO because they do see more of these trucks. This is from my own experience....cost on a transfer case seal was close to $3k at the PHX dealer and was less than $1k in DEN. I believe the PHX dealer was outsourcing the work...so makes sense.